- Jan 10, 2016
Seems that inclusion of Lithium-Ion Batteries (LIB) technology is going to be a mandatory requirement under P-75I, alongside AIP.
Navy tilting towards Korean KSS? Proven AIP, Li-ion batteries, VLS tubesSeems that inclusion of Lithium-Ion Batteries (LIB) technology is going to be a mandatory requirement under P-75I, alongside AIP.
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VLS not a requirement - in fact the version of KSS that's being offered in P75I will not have any VLS according to the Koreans:Navy tilting towards Korean KSS? Proven AIP, Li-ion batteries, VLS tubes
That's a June 2021 article from naval news. There is a more recent one from 3 days ago:version of KSS that's being offered in P75I will not have any VLS
DSME-3000, South Korea’s Missile Submarine
South Korea has recently spread its wings and entered the submarine export game, selling boats to Indonesia. They are understood to be proposing an export version of their home-grown KSS-III design. This is a relatively large non-nuclear boat, likely second only to the Barracuda.
The type comes with German based fuel-cell AIP. The layout, with a hull section essentially dedicated to AIP, suggests that it would not be too challenging to swap it for the Indian alternative.
And South Korea is ahead of most countries in the race to fit lithium-base battery technology to submarines. This promises to extend the endurance of submarines when running on batterie. Naturally this may be attractive to the Indian Navy, even potentially diminishing the importance of AIP.
Its differentiating feature is that it already comes with a six or ten round VLS. In South Korean service this is expected to carry the Hyunmoo 4-4 missile, which is roughly equivalent to India’s K-15 Sagarika but without a nuclear option. While exact dimensions and weights are not available, this at least implies that it could accommodate the similarly sized Brahmos.
Carrying a VLS in such a small submarine likely needs some trade-offs, like fewer weapons slots in the regular torpedo room. But overall the South Korean design seems balanced and highly capable.
That is interpretation of HI Sutton.That's a June 2021 article from naval news. There is a more recent one from 3 days ago:
The Indian Navy's P-75I submarines will be larger and much more potent than the Kalvari Class now entering service. They will be the bedrock of India's submarine fleet at a time when the strategic focus is leaning towards China as well as the traditional adversary, Pakistan. There are 4 contenders.www.navalnews.com
Specifically on the DSME-3000
Please see this post also:
Govt issues formal tender for 6 submarines under strategic partnership model Along pending project of the Indian Navy for building of indigenous submarines is finally set to kick off as the Ministry of Defence has issued Request for Proposal (RFP) for its mega submarine programme. The RFP...defenceforumindia.com
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The above infographic does show a Brahmos ejecting from the VLS!
The way Indian procurement system works - you meet the requirement, you get full marks. You don't meet the requirement, you get zero marks. Going above & beyond the requirement does not give you any extra marks.
The DRDO AIP was never really meant for P-75I, but only for Scorpene refit. The intention was that the AIP could be ready by the time INS Kalvari comes in for its first major refit. I don't know for sure when that is scheduled.Also for the AIP issue, wasn't the DRDO AIP rejected due to lack of a proof of concept on a working platform, leaving behind only two suppliers in the competition- German ThyssenKrup and Korean Daewoo? (The German company pulled out later due to ToT and localisation demands)
This Japanese choice of removing AIP & sticking with only diesel generators & long-lasting Li-Ion batteries (LIBs) carries on to the next-generation 29SS class submarinesThe first 10 platforms were equipped with an AIP system (4x Kockums sterling engines) in addition to a DE system for a submerged endurance of 6000 nm without surfacing- very close to a nuke sub
- AIP systems require large oxidizer tanks which eat up space for batteries and fuel- significantly lower patrol range despite being larger than Collins
- Penalty on internal space for the crew- crew amenities are inferior to the Collins class
- The final two boats in the Soryu class use a diff propulsion layout beginning with Oryu the AIP system has been completely removed- Only diesel generators and Li-Ion batteries- significant improvement in performance over lead acid systems providing a level of energy density that essentially makes AIP redundant
The Naval Materials Research Laboratory of Indian Defence Research and Development Organisation in collaboration with Larsen & Toubro and Thermax has developed a 270 kilowatt phosphoric acid fuel cell (PAFC) to power the Kalvari-class submarines, which are based on the Scorpène design. All six Kalvari class submarines will be retrofitted with AIP during their first upgrade. It produces electricity by reacting with hydrogen generated from sodium borohydride and stored oxygen with phosphoric acid acting as an electrolyte
Yes! It was revealed by submarine manufacturer Mitsubishi Heavy Industries only in June 2019 via a presentation & will begin development only in 2025-28, and is targeted for entry into service in 2031. Finding a photograph of the real sub is an impossibility at this point.You sure? Looks like still on the sail for now.
Here's the part I'm most interested in:The 29SS appears to be a further evolution of the LIB-powered Soryu, retaining its same essential hull form and its X-shaped rudder, which improves maneuverability and resilience. However, the Soryu’s bow has been inclined and its tall sail (conning tower) squashed downwards and blended into the hull of the 29SS. Diving planes formerly located on the sail are moved to the front of the hull.
These modifications appear intended to improve aquadynamics, thus enhancing acoustic stealth and decreasing drag, which could result in increased speed and range. A “floating floor structure that can mitigate vibrations and shocks” may also make the 29SS quieter.
The 29SS’s shrouded propulsion system configuration suggests a heavier pump jet propulsor system instead of a conventional propeller. Pump-jets are unlikely to produce noisy cavitation, and allow quieter running at higher speeds. One source claims a “thirteen-blade” pump-jet would be 20 decibels (two orders of magnitude) quieter than the seven-bladed propeller on the Soryu. The incorporation of pump jets suggests the 29SS may be designed to cruise at higher speeds for longer than is typical of a diesel-engine submarine.
The 29SS’s bow sonar will reportedly be optimized for discretion, long-distance detection, and also function better in shallow coastal waters. This last is particularly a concern in the rocky shallows off the Korean peninsula, in which North Korea operates dozens of small submarines that could prove difficult to detect.
The 29SS’s side-array hydrophones will reportedly use a fiber optic sonar which “senses sound not by the pressure of sound waves but by the interference effect of light.” This sensor may also be effective for detecting electromagnetic emissions.
There will also be a towed sonar array for long-distance, omnidirectional tracking, a reverse-search sonar array, and a broadband transmission array.
Returns from multiple sonars will reportedly be integrated into a synthetic sensor picture on the submarine’s new combat system, which can perform target-motion analysis and suggest firing solutions.
So far, there’s no evidence the 29SS includes vertical launch cells for missiles. While submarines can deploy missiles like the UGM-84 Harpoon out of their torpedo tubes, vertical cells allow ripple-fired salvoes that are more likely to overwhelm a target’s air defenses.
You sure? Looks like still on the sail for now.
Since retrofitment is also sought- may be the Scorpenes can switch from LABs to LIBs in refit & junk the idea of plugging in any AIP & if the propellors could be replaced with pumpjets from France that would be a deadly combo.The Indian Navy was seeking a system that could potentially revolutionise the performance of its conventional (non-nuclear) submarines. The Indian Navy's RFI document envisages the development of a 'high-capacity' lithium-ion battery system. The Indian Navy wants the system to be capable of being refitted to in-service submarines that use lead-acid batteries.
The Indian Navy has specified a 20-month deadline for the lithium-ion battery project from the date a contract is awarded.