Project-75I class SSK Submarines

Assassin 2.0

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Why does commodore say "it'll be atleast 10 years before the 1st P75I is commissioned, if all goes well"?
Isn't the timeline expected by IN require the 1st sub in water by 2025?
Time line of navy and time line from the point construction starts trials take place is a different story in case of SUBS very crucial and important testing takes place before commission they check her acoustic signature vibrations reliability and etc. Which can take a years before commissioning.
After all no one wants a sub to get a problem when she is under water.
P-75i is a very delayed program. Navy has demand from years but still today we are doing negotiations.

I hope we choose our partner fast and start working.
 

BON PLAN

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Why does commodore say "it'll be atleast 10 years before the 1st P75I is commissioned, if all goes well"?
Isn't the timeline expected by IN require the 1st sub in water by 2025?
What are the indian weapons programs ending on time? MMRCA is 10+ years late. Tejas is so late. Light helo, howitzer, Arjun....
The sole solution for P75I to shorten the delay is to order to MDL an improved version of Scorpene.
 

Bhurki

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What are the indian weapons programs ending on time? MMRCA is 10+ years late. Tejas is so late. Light helo, howitzer, Arjun....
The sole solution for P75I to shorten the delay is to order to MDL an improved version of Scorpene.
But he says " if all goes well".... Meaning no delays..
 

Bleh

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What are the indian weapons programs ending on time? MMRCA is 10+ years late. Tejas is so late. Light helo, howitzer, Arjun....
The sole solution for P75I to shorten the delay is to order to MDL an improved version of Scorpene.
We are looking to get ToT of another submarine instead of building upon Scorpene experience... India totally deserves it.
 

Bleh

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What are the indian weapons programs ending on time? MMRCA is 10+ years late. Tejas is so late. Light helo, howitzer, Arjun....
The sole solution for P75I to shorten the delay is to order to MDL an improved version of Scorpene.
We are looking to get ToT of another submarine instead of building upon Scorpene experience... India totally deserves whatever consequences it'll have to face.
 

Prashant12

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What can we expect from Naval Group proposal for P75I ?

Project 75-India is due to be the follow-on of the Kalvari-class. Six new submarines are due to be built in an Indian shipyard under Make In India, meaning that at least 50% of the added value has to be produced in India. At the origin of P75 and P75I, the Indian Navy wanted 24 conventional submarines from two different foreign manufacturers, which could have ended Naval Group’s hopes on the P75I.


But the considerable delays in submarine procurement in India offers new opportunities for the French group. Indeed, multiplication of foreign acquisitions and TOT could only help indigenous designs if the programs succeed one another in a timely fashion. When MDL started the production of the Kalvari-class, the knowledge acquired while building the Shishumar-class in the 1980s was already fading away.



Two of the four Shishumar-class Type 209-1500 undergoing maintenance and repair tasks in Mumbai late September. If two Type 209 were build at MDL, the first two of class were directly delivered from Germany in the early 1980s.
On the contrary, developing a strategic long term partnership with a single OEM could lead to a fast growing local industry and a successful indigenisation program, just like the South Korean KSS-I, KSS-II and KSS-III programs.


Last April, the Indian Navy has issued an Expression of Interest for six submarines under the P75I project. France’s Naval Group, Russsia’s Rosoboronexport, Germany’s TyssenKrupp and Sweden’s Saab are the main contenders in the tender. But the choice of the shipyard is also a major political and industrial concern in this project.


Compared to P75, the P75I submarines will have to be bigger ships, with AIP propulsion, the ability to carry a dozen cruise missiles alongside the torpedoes and anti-ship missiles. Such requirements made the Scorpène unsuitable for the P75I.



One of the nine remaining Kilo-type submarines of the Indian Navy seen at Mumbai Naval Base. Ideally, the future P75I submarines could be even bigger than the Kilo and stealthier than the Scorpène-type, with longer duration at sea and far greater weaponry.

Naval Group is therefore thinking about a whole new design for the Project 75I. As Naval News learned from Naval Group officials, “it will neither be a stretched Scorpène derivative, nor a Barracuda family derivative”. French proposal for P75I could then be a new design displacing around 3,000 tons specifically adapted for Indian Navy needs.


While the Scorpène is a best seller in the 2,000 tons-category, the Barracuda design is in a league of its own, in the +5,000 tons-category. A new 3,000 tons ship could fill a gap in Naval Group products family and allow the French company to compete with the Russian Lada-class, Japanese Sōryū-class, Chinese Yuan-class or even Spanish S-80 Plus design.



The nuclear powered Suffren-class in France and conventional powered Attack-class in Australia are both part of the Barracuda family, which is also proposed to the Dutch Navy. Those submarines are in the 4000-5500 tons categories, too heavy for the P75I. ©Naval Group

It is still unclear if such a new design, if selected, will be made solely by Naval Group’s teams or in cooperation with Indian shipbuilders.


Nevertheless, Naval Group officials confirmed that, in order to achieve the 50% of MII, the TOT can’t focus solely on design work and mechanical production. The transfer of technology will then have to include the Combat Management System that is currently one of the key features of Naval Group submarines.


“On P75I, we are well placed to be selected by the Indian Navy. The entire P75 program went very well and we are now partnering with the Navy for the maintenance and repair of all the Kalvari-class submarines. After what was accomplished on the P75, we are the only company in the world to have demonstrate complete TOT on a major submarine program.”



Olivier de la Bourdonnaye – Director of Programs, Naval Group – met in Mumbai, September 28, 2019.


The Kalvari-class submarine are equipped with optronic mast from Safran and a complete sonar suite from Thales


https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...ioning-what-is-naval-groups-outlook-in-india/
 

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France to offer Brand New submarine for India’s Project-75I Tender Published October 6, 2019 | By admin SOURCE: RAUNAK KUNDE / NEWS BEAT / IDRW.ORG French industrial group ” Naval group ” has confirmed to media that it will be offering India brand new design of the next generation conventional submarine under India’s Project-75I Tender for Six new submarines and new submarine will not be based on the Shortfin Barracuda Block 1A under construction for the Australian Navy nor it will be based on the Scorpene-class attack submarine already inducted by the Indian Navy. Naval group officials have said that the Indian Navy wants its next-generation submarine to be bigger than Scorpene-class but smaller than the Barracuda Block 1A. The naval group felt that there is a void between 2000 to 4000-tonne submerged displacement in their product portfolio due to which they decided to work on a new design. Indian Navy is looking for a submarine which has submerged displacement of around 3000 tonnes due to which idea to develop Super Scorpene-class with lengthened midsection has been dropped and Barracuda Block 1A which has submerged displacement of over 4000 tonnes is too big and might be expensive options among its competitors which prompted Naval group to go for new design. South Korea’s Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering (DSME) has offered its KSS-3 diesel-electric submarine (SSK) which has 3,400 tonnes of surface displacement, air-independent propulsion, and vertical launching system tubes that can launch land-attack cruise missiles. idrw.org can confirm that DSME which didn’t respond to Project-75I tender initially was asked by highest officials in the MOD to send their offer after the intervention of Korean and Indian MOD officials. India had approached Japan and had expressed interest in buying S?ry?-class submarines which have a submerged displacement of around 3000 tonnes during a visit by former India’s Defence Minister Manohar Parikkar to Japan but Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Shipbuilding Corporation stayed out of India’s multi-billion-dollar Project 75I-class submarine project which promoted India to ask South Korea to send their offer of KSS-3 SSK which too had stayed away from India’s Tender.

idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website https://idrw.org/france-to-offer-brand-new-submarine-for-indias-project-75i-tender/ .
 

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After Sweden’s SAAB, now another foreign firm likely to exit Navy’s submarine project Published October 30, 2019 | By admin SOURCE: THE PRINT

In what could be yet another setback to the ambitious strategic partnership (SP) initiative for building six conventional submarines, a second foreign firm is considering the possibility of pulling out of Project 75 India (P-75I) after Swedish firm SAAB. While the company had responded to the defence ministry’s Expression of Interest (EOI) earlier, sources in the firm have told ThePrint that it has found the project “completely complicated”. “We will have to wait and see how things evolve. It has been going on for 10 years,” a top executive, who did not want to be named, said.When asked if the firm has decided to exit the project, the executive only reiterated: “At this stage, we are waiting to see how it will evolve”. Sources also said German Chancellor Angela Merkel is expected to push the submarine project and flag concerns during her visit to the country Friday. Under the P75I initiative, the six conventional submarines will be equipped with Air Independent Propulsion Systems (AIP). South Korean firm Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering, Naval Group (France), TKMS (Germany), Rosoboronexport (Russia) and Navantia (Spain) have also been extended invitations to place technical bids for the contract. All foreign firms have flagged concerns Defence major SAAB withdrew from the project last month, saying there has to be a rethinking on the government’s policy. “It is a decision we have made due to the customers’ requirements regarding the time schedule and requirements related to the SP policy with its unbalance between our possibilities to have control and our obligations and liabilities,” Ola Rignell, chairman and managing director of SAAB India, had said in an interview to ThePrint. Defence sources further said all foreign Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) have flagged concerns about the strategic partnership. Under the SP policy, an Indian vendor will hold 51 per cent stake in the project, thus taking away control of the special purpose vehicle (SPV) that is to be formed with the foreign OEM. The OEMs have argued that the policy makes them liable for any malfunction. They cannot guarantee quality products and also abide by the timelines as sought by the government.

So if this thing happens then competition will be between French and russkies.
 
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Imaxxx

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After Sweden’s SAAB, now another foreign firm likely to exit Navy’s submarine project Published October 30, 2019 | By admin SOURCE: THE PRINT

In what could be yet another setback to the ambitious strategic partnership (SP) initiative for building six conventional submarines, a second foreign firm is considering the possibility of pulling out of Project 75 India (P-75I) after Swedish firm SAAB. While the company had responded to the defence ministry’s Expression of Interest (EOI) earlier, sources in the firm have told ThePrint that it has found the project “completely complicated”. “We will have to wait and see how things evolve. It has been going on for 10 years,” a top executive, who did not want to be named, said.When asked if the firm has decided to exit the project, the executive only reiterated: “At this stage, we are waiting to see how it will evolve”. Sources also said German Chancellor Angela Merkel is expected to push the submarine project and flag concerns during her visit to the country Friday. Under the P75I initiative, the six conventional submarines will be equipped with Air Independent Propulsion Systems (AIP). South Korean firm Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering, Naval Group (France), TKMS (Germany), Rosoboronexport (Russia) and Navantia (Spain) have also been extended invitations to place technical bids for the contract. All foreign firms have flagged concerns Defence major SAAB withdrew from the project last month, saying there has to be a rethinking on the government’s policy. “It is a decision we have made due to the customers’ requirements regarding the time schedule and requirements related to the SP policy with its unbalance between our possibilities to have control and our obligations and liabilities,” Ola Rignell, chairman and managing director of SAAB India, had said in an interview to ThePrint. Defence sources further said all foreign Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) have flagged concerns about the strategic partnership. Under the SP policy, an Indian vendor will hold 51 per cent stake in the project, thus taking away control of the special purpose vehicle (SPV) that is to be formed with the foreign OEM. The OEMs have argued that the policy makes them liable for any malfunction. They cannot guarantee quality products and also abide by the timelines as sought by the government.

So if this thing happens then competition will be between French and russkies.
Good riddance. If TAIS can be blacklisted for supplying ships to PN, SAAB should be kicked out for supplying AEWS, a more potent weapons platform than the corvettes, to PAF. The same applies to Gripen. No reason for SAAB to get a pass.

#pkmkb #destroypakistan
 

Armand2REP

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No, i meant shortfin barracuda..
The RFI requests a design that is in the water. Unless they are willing to accept the actual Barracuda as close enough in design it doesn't meet the RFI.
 

BON PLAN

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Why not a combined design based on french barracuda?
Why not, but :
If "combined" means a melting pot of french and russian technology, it's NO WAY.
India is already equipped with french up to date SSK, and russian powerfull SSN.
I think India don't want to put all the eggs in the same basket.
 

WolfPack86

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It is better to go for more scorpene submarines. Project 75i does'nt make any sense at all it is waste of time and money.
 

Armand2REP

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It is better to go for more scorpene submarines. Project 75i does'nt make any sense at all it is waste of time and money.
Considering how everyone is dropping out I think it is already decided. It will be an extended Scorpene with DRDO AIP.
 

BON PLAN

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Considering how everyone is dropping out I think it is already decided. It will be an extended Scorpene with DRDO AIP.
I agree.
But what about the VLS ? I'm not sure Scorpene is big enough to fit a VLS (after all it depends of the size of the missile inside....)
 

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