Project- 75(I). Next gen subs. RFP issued

MKM

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
129
Likes
132
Country flag
@bengalraider, No you understood my post differently. Nirbhaya will be 100% effective if your SEAD/DEAD mission is achieved successfully (you have to fire antiradiation missiles too to take down radars). Pak's air defence is so much weaker than that of China. That's why Nirbhaya from SSK (launched from even distance Arabian sea) will take care Pak. And when you integrate Brohmos-NG with MKI/FGFA, its range will significantly increase and take care of Chinese.
Please don't call Nirbhay as Nirbhaya, because Nirbhay means fearless but Nirbhaya means fearless female so you can see difference .
 

MKM

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
129
Likes
132
Country flag
Russia to provide India with a license for the construction of frigates
Russia and India are negotiating a license to manufacture Russian frigates for Project 11356, "Rosoboronexport" press service tells reporters on Wednesday on the eve of the Defexpo India-2016 arms and military equipment exhibition.

"Today, we are conducting negotiations about a possible construction of submarines for Project 75 (i) on the basis of the latest diesel and electric submarines " Amur-1650 ", and we will also be discussing prospects for the purchase of an additional batch of frigates for Project 11356 and the organisation of their licensed production in India", - as it was stated in the press release.

The largest military salon in South Asia Defexpo India has been held since 2000, once every two years. For the first time in 2016, the exhibition will take place in Kvitol South Goa (previously it was held in New Delhi). The Unified Russian exposition will be headed by Deputy Head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, Victor Drojjov and the joint "Rostec" and "Rosoboronexport" delegation will be headed by deputy general director Sergei Goreslavskii.
 

aditya g

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
1,948
Likes
4,578
Country flag
..."Today, we are conducting negotiations about a possible construction of submarines for Project 75 (i) on the basis of the latest diesel and electric submarines " Amur-1650 ", ....
Jeez .... they were hardselling Amur-1650 when I went to Defexpo in 2002!

No VLS on this one. Also, it is based on Project 677 Lada Class which has not been judged as a success.



Name Builder Laid down Commissioned Fleet Condition Notes
B-585Sankt Peterburg Admiralty Shipyards 26 December 1997 8 May 2010 Baltic Fleet In trial operation Experimental prototype. Subsequent ships are heavily redesigned.
B-586Kronshtadt Admiralty Shipyards 28 July 2005 2019 (delivery expected)[6] Under construction Construction stopped due to multiple major issues with B-585 Sankt Peterburg, after a thorough redesign construction resumed on 9 July 2013.
B-587Velikiye Luki Admiralty Shipyards 19 March 2015[7] 2019 (delivery expected)[6] Under construction Laid down as B-587 Sevastopol on 10 November 2006, re-laid in 2015 due to a redesign.
 

Sabru Foxtrot

Sabru Foxtrot
Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
161
Likes
133
Indian Navy Ships during Combined Commanders Conference on board INS Vikramaditya at Sea, off the coast of Kochi.

 

Sabru Foxtrot

Sabru Foxtrot
Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
161
Likes
133
Indian Navy Ships during Combined Commanders Conference on board INS Vikramaditya at Sea, off the coast of Kochi.

 

Immanuel

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
2,597
Likes
4,242
Country flag
The P-75I tender is just a complete waste of time, the Scorpene line is active in Mumbai, just order another 6-8 of these puppies and call it a day. Add the home made AIP unit and its more than enough to meet the needs. Instead focus on making the next gen of subs in India.
 

BON PLAN

-*-
Contributor
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
5,583
Likes
4,944
Country flag
The P-75I tender is just a complete waste of time, the Scorpene line is active in Mumbai, just order another 6-8 of these puppies and call it a day. Add the home made AIP unit and its more than enough to meet the needs. Instead focus on making the next gen of subs in India.
Maybe France could sell you the short fin Barracuda, or even the nuclear powered Barracuda.
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,124
Country flag
We want an Indian design diesel sub.

There is enough confidence now to be able to build own subs. No need to pay royalty on scoepene indefinitely.
 

bengalraider

DFI Technocrat
Ambassador
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
3,778
Likes
2,640
Country flag
The P75I is budgeted at some 60,000crores or approximately 12$bil. What we need is numbers more than anything else and this is how i think we can get it
4$Bil for ten new Kilos(Vietnam deal in 2009 was for 300$ mil each). If signed this year the boats can be simultaneously built at Russia and India with 1 joining the fleet each year from 2019.
5$ Bil for six more Scorpene with AIP(Our previous deal was 3$ bil for 6 boats). All Facilities are already ready at MDL if Signed this year all 6 additional boast can be built by 2025.
Use the rest of the money to extend the life of our existing KILO fleet
in 2030 we will have
20 Kilos- 10 New+ 10 Refitted
12 Scorpene- 4 normal + 8 AIP equipped versions
4 HDW
4 Arihant Class SSBN
2 indigenous SSN?+ 2Akula?
A fleet of 42-44 Submarines

It will buy us time till 2030 to develop our own SSK line as well.
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
Mod
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
15,031
Likes
35,979
Country flag
The P75I is budgeted at some 60,000crores or approximately 12$bil. What we need is numbers more than anything else and this is how i think we can get it
4$Bil for ten new Kilos(Vietnam deal in 2009 was for 300$ mil each). If signed this year the boats can be simultaneously built at Russia and India with 1 joining the fleet each year from 2019.
5$ Bil for six more Scorpene with AIP(Our previous deal was 3$ bil for 6 boats). All Facilities are already ready at MDL if Signed this year all 6 additional boast can be built by 2025.
Use the rest of the money to extend the life of our existing KILO fleet
in 2030 we will have
20 Kilos- 10 New+ 10 Refitted
12 Scorpene- 4 normal + 8 AIP equipped versions
4 HDW
4 Arihant Class SSBN
2 indigenous SSN?+ 2Akula?
A fleet of 42-44 Submarines

It will buy us time till 2030 to develop our own SSK line as well.
Indigenous SSN Class has at least Six Subs I guess.
Anyway,
Can we get 10000km range SLBMs by then?
 

Immanuel

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
2,597
Likes
4,242
Country flag
Maybe France could sell you the short fin Barracuda, or even the nuclear powered Barracuda.
I doubt France will sell us the nuke powered Barracuda when TOT will need to be provided, short fin sure. But the way these acquisitions go, sea trials have not yet begun and it would be another 10 years before these are inducted. We need numbers, the prudent thing is just to order 6 Scorpenes on top of the 3 being ordered and call it a day, a fleet of 12 Scorpenes is good enough a fleet. We can then focus on home made nuke sub programs.

If I had my way, ATV or the 1st INS Arihant would remain as ATV for testing future upgrades and I would immediately order another 7 enlarged Arihant class subs based on the INS Aridaman.
 

Immanuel

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
2,597
Likes
4,242
Country flag
The ATV Is a good platform, technically, by strapping a diesel eletric engine and AIP, the same design can be used to develop a home made diesel eletric hunter killer.
 

Anupu

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
300
Likes
280
Country flag
The ATV Is a good platform, technically, by strapping a diesel eletric engine and AIP, the same design can be used to develop a home made diesel eletric hunter killer.
I doubt it would be that simple, and ATV is almost a tech demonstrator, a lot of new techs are needed to be integrated. Also P-75 I is an excellent opportunity for our new Strategic Partner firms. Look

On queries by the industry, Parrikar said P75(I) submarines, helicopters and fighter aircrafts could be the segments that will be looked into for selection of SPs. Light Combat Aircraft MK2 itself could be pursued under the SP route. "With multiple helicopter and fighter programs there could be one or two strategic partners in either," sources said.

Industry seniors who attended the meeting included those representing industrial chambers CII, FICCI, Assocham, PHD Chambers of Commerce.
And the good news is seems like Tejas Mk II might also involve a private partner, If this would be the I have no doubt TAS would be in the lead.
 
Last edited:

Immanuel

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
2,597
Likes
4,242
Country flag
I doubt it would be that simple, and ATV is almost a tech demonstrator, a lot of new techs are needed to be integrated. Also P-75 I is an excellent opportunity for our new Strategic Partner firms. Look
Sure, its not as easy I say it is, but can be done, I am sure its faster to build another Arihant with Diesel Electric prop and AIP than waiting for the P-75I process to be complete, if we continue you can be sure the 1st P-75I sub won't be inducted for another 8-10 years.

Meanwhile best order 6 more scorpenes.
 

Zebra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
6,060
Likes
2,296
I doubt France will sell us the nuke powered Barracuda when TOT will need to be provided, short fin sure. But the way these acquisitions go, sea trials have not yet begun and it would be another 10 years before these are inducted. We need numbers, the prudent thing is just to order 6 Scorpenes on top of the 3 being ordered and call it a day, a fleet of 12 Scorpenes is good enough a fleet. We can then focus on home made nuke sub programs.

If I had my way, ATV or the 1st INS Arihant would remain as ATV for testing future upgrades and I would immediately order another 7 enlarged Arihant class subs based on the INS Aridaman.
They signed for it in 2005.

As of yet in 2016, they managed to get only one anyhow.

Only last two will get AIP, that to designed by DRDO.

All these are not enough for you, sir, you sill wants to buy more of these dramas.
 

Anupu

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
300
Likes
280
Country flag
Sure, its not as easy I say it is, but can be done, I am sure its faster to build another Arihant with Diesel Electric prop and AIP than waiting for the P-75I process to be complete, if we continue you can be sure the 1st P-75I sub won't be inducted for another 8-10 years.

Meanwhile best order 6 more scorpenes.
Scorpenes also took time, That doesn't mean I don't think we shouldn't buy more Scorpenes, Parikkar himself in the parliament that he is looking to increase order by 3 more, as the initial dock in which the modules are build is already empty. So yeah we could see 3-4 more Scorpenes, but P75 I is very important to kick start our private industry.

It can be run in two ways, First would the SP approach:

Select a conglomerate as a long term strategic partner for submarines. They would then come up with a sub completely for meeting the navy's requirements. They may also take help of hired foreign expertise and advice. While building a long term infrastructure to develop future submarines totally in-house. Only a SP could afford to do it. Such an approach would require them to invest a lot of money into developing an entire infrastructure. Hence there is a need for guarantee of profit. Quite reminiscent to Japanese Zaibatsu system during Meiji era.

Second would have local companies partnering with a foreign collaborator and build locally a version of foreign sub under license. It would allow for a more competitive environment and may lead to better designs getting selected.

I prefer the SP route and if Tejas is given to a private player to develop Tejas MKII. I couldn't be more happier. What do you think.


They signed for it in 2005.

All these are not enough for you, sir, you sill wants to buy more of these dramas.
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,124
Country flag
I think arihant class has given enough confidence to L&T to build diesel boats as well.

My guess is P75i will go to L&T and Pipapav may end up building Kilo class.

There could be 3 more scorpene, built at Mazgaon Docks.
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,124
Country flag
The future is indigenous submarines - both diesel and nuclear propelled.

It has to be to launch locally made missiles.
 

Immanuel

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
2,597
Likes
4,242
Country flag
They signed for it in 2005.

As of yet in 2016, they managed to get only one anyhow.

Only last two will get AIP, that to designed by DRDO.

All these are not enough for you, sir, you sill wants to buy more of these dramas.
True, the Scorpene was delayed heavily but the P-75I doesn't offer anything a Scorpene with AIP doesn't. The Scorpene line is now mostly stable and can produce subs with more orders. I think if we order 6 more Scorpene and invest what is being set aside for the P-75I into a Diesel Electric variant of the ATV, then we'd have a home made sub by 2025.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top