Project- 75(I). Next gen subs. RFP issued

Maverick007

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Do we really need the ToT for more diesel subs. We would get enough knowledge through the ToT for the Scorpene's. BY the time we really start building our own subs based on our own design, it will atleast be 2020. At that stage we would rather go for Nuclear or any other medium that is cost/resource effective. I would rather that we get ToT on how to better build nuclear subs so that we can substantially improve on the Arihant class (However good it is). Let just pay $200-400 a sub off the shelf so that we get our 6 subs and then better utilize the remaining money for different stuff like coastal radars, missiles etc. We are not gonna be fighting any big battles in the future as a nuclear power. It is better to be prepared for low level conflicts or skirmishes on the borders. We might have all the defence equipment but we have glaring gaps in coastal survellience and defence, especiallin South India. We should prioritize and focus on that
 

Kunal Biswas

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For more covert but slower transit requirements, fuel cell stacks provide the ship's services and propulsion power. The stacks take in air from the atmosphere through a snort mast; this then reacts with hydrogen obtained from reformed kerosene, which is carried in external fuel bags mounted under the casing.

In-theatre, SSGT will operate fully submerged, in Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) mode, for up to 25 days. The fuel cell stacks are fed by liquid oxygen (LOX) stored onboard to permit fully covert operations at up to 10 knots.

The 30 knots sprints confer tactical advantage and are provided by power drawn from a large advanced ZEBRA battery, which also acts as a load leveller during operation of the fuel cells or the gas turbines.
This concept is more like German U-214 of using fuel cells..
 

bengalraider

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This concept is more like German U-214 of using fuel cells..
With the difference that the SSGT needs to surface for a shorter time as the battery can be recharged by the Gas turbines much faster than any diesel engine could!
Also when not operating stealthily the gas turbines can give the boat a massive power boost!
 

Tshering22

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What is this!!? So costly!! Why aren't they considering domestic construction of submarines? Sorry if I am not knowledgeable but if we can make nuclear submarines, so what's so difficult in making diesel electric attack submarines?

This is pure bureaucracy and inefficiency of government.
 

neo29

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What is this!!? So costly!! Why aren't they considering domestic construction of submarines? Sorry if I am not knowledgeable but if we can make nuclear submarines, so what's so difficult in making diesel electric attack submarines?

This is pure bureaucracy and inefficiency of government.
We do buy submarines from outside but the construction is done in India itself under ToT. Its our builders who are delaying it. If they dont acquire the parts and build on time the costs will obviously run high just like it happened in Scorpene deal. To make diesel electric submarines indigenously build research must be done which i dont think India bothers to do coz of waste of time. Hence went for an outside order got ToT and building here.

But it is true all these delays are happening coz of bureaucracy and inefficiency of government.
 

nrj

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Alright. Reasons to believe that Russian Lada Class Subs are the strong competitor in the Project-75 i.e. Next Gen subs for IN. Lada class is recent non-nuclear Russian submarine. 6 of these are said to be ordered for Russian Navy. Its a 4th Gen much quieter, very sophisticated submarine with AIP & high endurance, better range.

I think IN should go for 1850 Amur variant of Lada with 10 VLS cells. Here is a video (Russian) giving a view of inner rooms of Lada submarine -

 
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Daredevil

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What is this!!? So costly!! Why aren't they considering domestic construction of submarines? Sorry if I am not knowledgeable but if we can make nuclear submarines, so what's so difficult in making diesel electric attack submarines?

This is pure bureaucracy and inefficiency of government.
We are looking for next-generation submarines which will be capable of incorporating future technologies and these are also bigger than Scorpenes that we are bulding. Right now we don't have the expertise to build such diesel subs as we are still in learning process. The main reason for hastening this is to have more subs in shorter time but also get next generation technology AIP based fuel cells, stealth etc. If you have read that article, it is clear that MDL is busy with Scorpene till 2018 or so and in the mean time we also need more Subs and that's the reason for this RFP.
 

JHA

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LADA is supposed to be quietest submarine in the world. however i would like U boats to win for next line of subs..However 5 LADAs on top of these will be very good..
 

nrj

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LADA is supposed to be quietest submarine in the world. however i would like U boats to win for next line of subs..However 5 LADAs on top of these will be very good..
Yes Ladas are virtually complete silent. I came to know that Rosoboronexport has approached IN with a loaded proposal. Whats more, Brahmos can be naturally stationed in these Ladas. Question remains that what timeline IN is looking for. Curently only one of this class sub is in active duty. By 2015 Russian Navy will have 3-6 of Ladas possibly all with Bramhos VLS.
 

o'conor

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I would like India to go for LADAs since germany will only sell u-214(export version) not u-212 while russia will provide the same tech as its navy will get. And LADAs are really good subs & may be little cheap than U boats as well.
 

JHA

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Even U-214 will be one hell of a sub considering the price they will get for each sub. We should keep in the mind that same submarine when purchased in baseline model costs fraction of what it will cost if it is loaded with all the systems. (example Purchase of scorpene by brazil )...
P-75A should go to Germany and the LADAs should be bought in addition to these. We will need atleast 20SSks in future while we are buying only 12.
 

nrj

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Huge amount poured into Project-75 is finally coming close convincing as the actual number of subs in overall contract is going to be more than what is declared.

Recently Antony had these words over shortage of submarines -

Government is constantly reviewing the security environment and accordingly decide induction of appropriate equipment and platforms including submarines for security of our maritime interest. It will not be in the interest of national security to disclose the exact number of the submarines.

Source: Public Release
 
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JHA

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^^^Yes..as they say No navy discloses its no. of subs...Hope We are going for more ....
 

gowthamraj7

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Why no one is considering marlin class subs. French always leading in electronic warfare system and then PAR with americans in it.
 

bhramos

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Why no one is considering marlin class subs. French always leading in electronic warfare system and then PAR with americans in it.
Merlin Class is just noting but Upgraded Scorpene........
I think France is Offering it. but it already offered to PN. But at this position they wont Buy.......
But i think we need Different Machine.........
 

gowthamraj7

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^ in that way also it works:). No delay in construction , easy maintance and most importanty france offers launch of brahmos missile in it.
 

nrj

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Why no one is considering marlin class subs. French always leading in electronic warfare system and then PAR with americans in it.
Pakistan Navy (PN) is considering purchasing the Marlin class subs to replace the Daphne subs. So it involves possibilities of IN not considering the Marlins or GOI pushing France to differ from any such deal to PN.

BTW DCNS has not responded to RFP yet IMO. Only Rosoboronexport has approached IN with AMUR Class proposal as what I have heard.
 
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Tshering22

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^^^Yes..as they say No navy discloses its no. of subs...Hope We are going for more ....
LOLZ! What's the use of making such bigshot statements when half of the submarine fleet is in dockyards all the time, dude? Even if by that statement Anthony can hide plus or minus 2 submarines, what's there? Remember that our Navy focused on surface warfare similar to Royal Navy and USN rather than going after an underwater doctrine unlike Pakistan and China follow from Soviet Union's policies. So it was always submarines where we lagged behind. And today the submarine disparity between us and Chinese along with economic gap itself is so much that it is like a big monster with its mouth open to swallow us down. 62 submarines to 16! Take the ratio, almost 4:1.

Anthony tried to give a very nice answer to make it sound all secretive but has miserably failed to cover the blunders of our Navy in forgetting about underwater fleet while being only focused on acquiring surface warships.
 

Tshering22

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^^ I think we better take up these LADA subs instead of going too much into French stuff that costs through-the-roof for buying anything in large numbers.
 

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