Practical means to liberate Balochistan and Sindhudesh?

Detective Pennington

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I suggest you read the history of the 1971 War extensively, as there are several parallels which can be used here. Propaganda, if used rightly, can sway any populace on the planet, irrespective of nationality or religion. If it 37% at this stage, without any active propaganda effort by Indian intelligence(at least, as far as I see), I consider those to be good numbers. Propaganda works in different ways, including the setting up of alternative radio stations and TV channels to ensure Pak doesn't interfere in their operation, victimization and reinforcing the belief that the Balochs are not the same as the rest of Pakistan. The faultline which must be used to the best possible extent is the divide between the supposedly-dominant Punjabi population and the rest of Pakistan. The main complication though will be the Islamist influence in Balochistan along with the presence of a large Pashtun population(I guess around 36%). The presence of Pashtuns is a pretty big problem imo.

When it comes to the war itself, the Balochs don't need fighters, nor can we afford to give them those. A few helicopters are possible, as India did with the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, but several other logistical problems, including the setting up of helipads and stationing of IAF personnel for repair and management would also exist. At this point, the raising of a cadre-based guerilla force is what is required, armed with basic weaponry. Delivery can possibly be routed through Afg. I am unaware of the logistics of this plan, but I recently heard a talk given by Maj. Gaurav Arya, where he said that it would be possible to train and arm Balochs through Lakshadweep. A cool idea, but it ignores the presence of the Pakistani Coastal Guard, and the sheer distance, but this idea is worth exploring.

If Balochistan must be freed however, they cannot afford to be alone and fight off the Pakistan Army, as the latter's strength and technological advantage is very high as compared to the Balochs. In the event of Balochistan's liberation, Indian intervention along the IB and LoC will be required. It would be interesting to consider a naval invasion of Balochistan by India.
That makes sense, I think it takes a sustained effort but the propaganda and public will can be there.

Thing about naval invasion though, I understand India's navy is much stronger than Pakistan's, but won't that trigger a nuclear attack?
 

Lonewolf

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That makes sense, I think it takes a sustained effort but the propaganda and public will can be there.

Thing about naval invasion though, I understand India's navy is much stronger than Pakistan's, but won't that trigger a nuclear attack?
With pakistani missile ,which strike their own territory during testing , dude their arsenal don't have proper icbm .

And a good layered defence we are creating will be enough , also the first thing to do ,in current scenario would be to secure nukes , as much as possible .

As per osint sources , indian military satellite are regularly photographing pakistan nuclear sites .

Secondly , our bmd system are good now ,and would be awesome after phase 2 of bmd plan .

Next , the don't have nuclear triad , only land base capability , their air launched nuke capability is non existent , also they don't have any ssbn .


And any nuke attack on india , mean india can use it's arsenal then , they will be saturated if a single missile hit any of our city , but that will never be the case
 

DerBronzeLord

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That makes sense, I think it takes a sustained effort but the propaganda and public will can be there.

Thing about naval invasion though, I understand India's navy is much stronger than Pakistan's, but won't that trigger a nuclear attack?
Pakistan's nuclear doctrine states that in the event of a nuclear strike consideration, there would be a nuclear test first, followed by a use of a nuke on Paki soil against Indian forces, followed by Indian nuclear sites to prevent nuclear retaliation against Pakistani cities which would almost definitely result in the destruction of Pak(This is the actual Pakistani doctrine, which can be found easily on the internet).

The thresholds for a Pak nuclear strike are 1) Indian advances beyond the Indus Valley region, 2) destruction of the Pakistani Armed Forces, a nuclear attack, an attack on Pakistani nuclear installations or the use of chemical and biological weapons against Pak, 3) Economic blockade using the Indian Navy or stopping water flow of the Indus, Jhelum and Chenab and 4) splitting of Pakistan internally.


I would suggest you consider reading Stephen Cohen's paper on Pakistan's nuclear doctrine or FS Lodi, Lt. Gen. in the Pak Army.


I believe that a naval invasion by India would call for a nuke attack(on their own soil) by Pak only if India tries to capture all of Balochistan, but there would also be an attack against India on our soil if all of Balochistan is captured. However, during war time, nuclear attacks would be a black box. I believe that it would be likely that Pakistan would launch a nuclear strike in the event of a Naval Invasion.
 

Maharaj samudragupt

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Pakistan's nuclear doctrine states that in the event of a nuclear strike consideration, there would be a nuclear test first, followed by a use of a nuke on Paki soil against Indian forces, followed by Indian nuclear sites to prevent nuclear retaliation against Pakistani cities which would almost definitely result in the destruction of Pak(This is the actual Pakistani doctrine, which can be found easily on the internet).

The thresholds for a Pak nuclear strike are 1) Indian advances beyond the Indus Valley region, 2) destruction of the Pakistani Armed Forces, a nuclear attack, an attack on Pakistani nuclear installations or the use of chemical and biological weapons against Pak, 3) Economic blockade using the Indian Navy or stopping water flow of the Indus, Jhelum and Chenab and 4) splitting of Pakistan internally.


I would suggest you consider reading Stephen Cohen's paper on Pakistan's nuclear doctrine or FS Lodi, Lt. Gen. in the Pak Army.


I believe that a naval invasion by India would call for a nuke attack(on their own soil) by Pak only if India tries to capture all of Balochistan, but there would also be an attack against India on our soil if all of Balochistan is captured. However, during war time, nuclear attacks would be a black box. I believe that it would be likely that Pakistan would launch a nuclear strike in the event of a Naval Invasion.
India should not advance beyond Indus valley , reason being beyond that there live persianised people.
The baloochistan and Khyber people have turned more persianate in last 1000 years .
Even in ancient era , except mauryans and hindushahis , probably No indian kingdom controlled that region not even guptas ,I believe .
Though there are buddhist stupas as far as afganistan but they cannot be rescued now from their Desert cult .
They cannot be brought in the fold of dharma without considerable violence.
Paki punjabi and Sindhi's too are like that but to a extent , less radical than them
 

Lonewolf

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India should not advance beyond Indus valley , reason being beyond that there live persianised people.
The baloochistan and Khyber people have turned more persianate in last 1000 years .
Even in ancient era , except mauryans and hindushahis , probably No indian kingdom controlled that region not even guptas ,I believe .
Though there are buddhist stupas as far as afganistan but they cannot be rescued now from their Desert cult .
They cannot be brought in the fold of dharma without considerable violence.
Paki punjabi and Sindhi's too are like that but to a extent , less radical than them
If it ever happen it would be our own gaza and west bank , one day or another ,islam will overpower any sanity left and we could use to gain some territory sans their population , throw those pigs away , baloch can be liberated but end of day they too are jihadi , wil start attack on us , we need to be prepared for it anyhow , if bangladesh if ever throws awami league and some radical group overtake ,i hope they wage a war , so that we can expand Siliguri corridor enough
 

Detective Pennington

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Pakistan's nuclear doctrine states that in the event of a nuclear strike consideration, there would be a nuclear test first, followed by a use of a nuke on Paki soil against Indian forces, followed by Indian nuclear sites to prevent nuclear retaliation against Pakistani cities which would almost definitely result in the destruction of Pak(This is the actual Pakistani doctrine, which can be found easily on the internet).

The thresholds for a Pak nuclear strike are 1) Indian advances beyond the Indus Valley region, 2) destruction of the Pakistani Armed Forces, a nuclear attack, an attack on Pakistani nuclear installations or the use of chemical and biological weapons against Pak, 3) Economic blockade using the Indian Navy or stopping water flow of the Indus, Jhelum and Chenab and 4) splitting of Pakistan internally.


I would suggest you consider reading Stephen Cohen's paper on Pakistan's nuclear doctrine or FS Lodi, Lt. Gen. in the Pak Army.


I believe that a naval invasion by India would call for a nuke attack(on their own soil) by Pak only if India tries to capture all of Balochistan, but there would also be an attack against India on our soil if all of Balochistan is captured. However, during war time, nuclear attacks would be a black box. I believe that it would be likely that Pakistan would launch a nuclear strike in the event of a Naval Invasion.
Right I agree, they won't stick to their doctrine if they are going down anyway because they are suicidal jihadi lunatics who would rather get completely destroyed if they can take India down with them than be humiliated by India.

There has to be some kind of denuclearization, and THEN, direct military intervention (like with Indian Navy) as the Balochis cannot fight off Pak military on their own.

For this, you need US help. India alone cannot pressure pak to denuclearize with China supporting Pak and Saudi Arabia and co wanting to keep pak nuke stockpile as a reserve. US has to believe that Pak nukes are really dangerous, and that they don't care that Pakistan is no longer an ally or will be mad. Not needing them for Afghanistan is a step in the right direction, but with Biden reviving the military to military ties, we need to know why US still gives a shit about Pakistan and is not sanctioning them to denuclearize like NK, and then target that somehow.
 

Lonewolf

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Right I agree, they won't stick to their doctrine if they are going down anyway because they are suicidal jihadi lunatics who would rather get completely destroyed if they can take India down with them than be humiliated by India.

There has to be some kind of denuclearization, and THEN, direct military intervention (like with Indian Navy) as the Balochis cannot fight off Pak military on their own.

For this, you need US help. India alone cannot pressure pak to denuclearize with China supporting Pak and Saudi Arabia and co wanting to keep pak nuke stockpile as a reserve. US has to believe that Pak nukes are really dangerous, and that they don't care that Pakistan is no longer an ally or will be mad. Not needing them for Afghanistan is a step in the right direction, but with Biden reviving the military to military ties, we need to know why US still gives a shit about Pakistan and is not sanctioning them to denuclearize like NK, and then target that somehow.
Denuking porks won't be like that simple , you won't ask them , it would be like ,go destroy all support system , destroy avionics and secure warhead , nothing else , porks will sell themselves ,but won't give nukes ,that gives them euphoria , cause this is their only deterrence , in conventional war they will be beaten shit out .

It would be huge event when a rouge state is disarmed of nukes
 

Detective Pennington

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Denuking porks won't be like that simple , you won't ask them , it would be like ,go destroy all support system , destroy avionics and secure warhead , nothing else , porks will sell themselves ,but won't give nukes ,that gives them euphoria , cause this is their only deterrence , in conventional war they will be beaten shit out .

It would be huge event when a rouge state is disarmed of nukes
Ah so you're saying US doesn't actually want nuclearized Pakistan, they just won't order them to denuclearize because they know Pak won't give up the nukes voluntarily, and giving an order that isn't obeyed looks weak?

I'm sure US is much less worried about Indian than Pakistani nukes, but I fear they won't ask Pakistan to denuclearize without also asking India even IF they do ask Pak because of "not being unfair" or "not being islamophobic" or just the general lazy not differentiating between India and Pakistan because that has been the norm since 1948 except when it's beneficial to be pro one side or the other. And there is no real benefit to only having India have nukes, just not a threat.
 

Lonewolf

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Ah so you're saying US doesn't actually want nuclearized Pakistan, they just won't order them to denuclearize because they know Pak won't give up the nukes voluntarily, and giving an order that isn't obeyed looks weak?

I'm sure US is much less worried about Indian than Pakistani nukes, but I fear they won't ask Pakistan to denuclearize without also asking India even IF they do ask Pak because of "not being unfair" or "not being islamophobic" or just the general lazy not differentiating between India and Pakistan because that has been the norm since 1948 except when it's beneficial to be pro one side or the other. And there is no real benefit to only having India have nukes, just not a threat.
Us won't ask as it won't change anything , pakistan look like a nation harbouring jihadi terrorist but rot is deeper , pakistan is allowed their nukea because there is no conflict present ,also their nukes are not long ranged even , their interstage use first generation tech and increase risk of missile destroying itself .


US looks for it's own benefit , pakistan was neede for afganistan till now , maybe for some time in future , but the catch is why US support anyone , in case of pakistan being denuked ,they can just give some pretty statement like a calmer world , peace un our time , and all , we are capable enough in this , a nuke sharing agreement can be reached where US ,france , Israel (maybe ) , china (high possibility ) and india can share them
 

DerBronzeLord

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Right I agree, they won't stick to their doctrine if they are going down anyway because they are suicidal jihadi lunatics who would rather get completely destroyed if they can take India down with them than be humiliated by India.

There has to be some kind of denuclearization, and THEN, direct military intervention (like with Indian Navy) as the Balochis cannot fight off Pak military on their own.

For this, you need US help. India alone cannot pressure pak to denuclearize with China supporting Pak and Saudi Arabia and co wanting to keep pak nuke stockpile as a reserve. US has to believe that Pak nukes are really dangerous, and that they don't care that Pakistan is no longer an ally or will be mad. Not needing them for Afghanistan is a step in the right direction, but with Biden reviving the military to military ties, we need to know why US still gives a shit about Pakistan and is not sanctioning them to denuclearize like NK, and then target that somehow.
https://www.nti.org/gsn/article/the-pentagons-secret-plans-to-secure-pakistans-nuclear-arsenal/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/05/24/take-pakistans-nukes-please/
 

DerBronzeLord

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Denuking porks won't be like that simple , you won't ask them , it would be like ,go destroy all support system , destroy avionics and secure warhead , nothing else , porks will sell themselves ,but won't give nukes ,that gives them euphoria , cause this is their only deterrence , in conventional war they will be beaten shit out .

It would be huge event when a rouge state is disarmed of nukes
Denuclearizing, as far as my noob mind knows, involves capturing of their nuclear warheads only and NOT missiles. Nuclear warheads are only "mated" or attached to the delivery system at times of high tension or war. Removing the nuclear warheads, however, is a stop-gap. They won't possess nuclear weapons only for a few weeks. If reactors like Kahuta are allowed to stand, they would acquire another weapon within weeks.
 

Detective Pennington

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Ah this kind of reaffirms what I thinking about the order of denuclearization and balkanization. The US doesn't want Pakistan to balkanize because the chaos resulting might allow nukes to fall into Jihadi hands. They actually want to reduce the degree to which Pakistan is a failed state so that nukes are safer.

These are only contingency plans in case of an emergency, it seems like to the US, the safest option is to help Pakistan and its SPD keep the nukes safe. There has to be some kind of trigger to justify an official stance of "Pakistan needs to denuclearize". Maybe a Jihadi group like the Taliban or Lakshar-e/i-something conquering a base?

R&AW probably has some assets that know the location of Pakistani nukes. Could they feed that info to some Jihadi group to try and take over a base and succeed? That might justify it.
 

Detective Pennington

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In addition, if military force is used after denuclearization to balkanize Pak, I think India should take not just Kashmir, but the Sikh holy sites that were lost to Pakjab. The one in the north (Panja Sahib) is too far unless you also take the part of KPK that stands in the middle of that and Kashmir Valley (which would probably piss off Afghanistan), but Lahore, Kartakpur and Nankana Sahib should be retakeable and added to Indian punjab.

02-1.jpg
 

Detective Pennington

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An even better map.

If Russia is turning Sindhudesh into a satellite state, and India is annexing POK, why not just split punjab into two halves, the bottom one (Southwest punjab) can then be a Russian protectorate, and the northern (Northwest Punjab) half can be an Indian vassal state. Putin's Russia will not turn down an opportunity to take more power to get closer to restoring the Soviet Union's former glory, and after a war with Pakistan in which nuclear weapons will be launched and a few might make it past BMD to hit Indian cities, India will probably be happy for an opportunity to take revenge by oppressing the vassal state of Northwest punjab:

south_asia.gif
 

Marliii

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An even better map.

If Russia is turning Sindhudesh into a satellite state, and India is annexing POK, why not just split punjab into two halves, the bottom one (Southwest punjab) can then be a Russian protectorate, and the northern (Northwest Punjab) half can be an Indian vassal state. Putin's Russia will not turn down an opportunity to take more power to get closer to restoring the Soviet Union's former glory, and after a war with Pakistan in which nuclear weapons will be launched and a few might make it past BMD to hit Indian cities, India will probably be happy for an opportunity to take revenge by oppressing the vassal state of Northwest punjab:

View attachment 94311
In any war with porks POK and Lahore should be the most important targets.if lahore is taken I doubt porks will detonate a nuke in their own city.holding pakistani cities and population centres are of the most importance
 

Detective Pennington

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In any war with porks POK and Lahore should be the most important targets.if lahore is taken I doubt porks will detonate a nuke in their own city.holding pakistani cities and population centres are of the most importance
tbh i wouldn't put it past them to say "if we can't have it no one can" and just do it anyway. Plus I think they would target Indian cities rather than the troops invading Pakistan. Nukes have to go first using tactical air strikes IMO
 

Marliii

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tbh i wouldn't put it past them to say "if we can't have it no one can" and just do it anyway. Plus I think they would target Indian cities rather than the troops invading Pakistan. Nukes have to go first using tactical air strikes IMO
Lahore population 1.1crore.if indian army tries to capture it.it could be one of largest urban warfare and one for the history books.porks nuclear doctrine is just like them they dint know what the shit to do.
 

Detective Pennington

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Lahore population 1.1crore.if indian army tries to capture it.it could be one of largest urban warfare and one for the history books.porks nuclear doctrine is just like them they dint know what the shit to do.
Their entire existence is defined by an inferiority complex towards India. It's really sad.
 

Detective Pennington

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Only way is de-islamisation and re-dharmification of Porkistan and Bangladesh for Akhand Bharat.
”Impossible though, hehe”.
Honestly if China has the right to hold onto Tibet and East Turkestan Hong Kong etc. and lay claim to Taiwan and Ladakh/Arunchal, India has the right to claim that Bangladesh, Kashmir and Punjab/Sindh are it's own territory because of shared Dharmic indo-aryan/dravidian ancestry.
 

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