Practical means to liberate Balochistan and Sindhudesh?

Detective Pennington

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I say this because the attack on that woman in 2005 and the killing of Akbar Bugti in 2006 is what triggered the most recent surge of insurgency (not that i would ever suggest raping a woman even for false flag but just saying in general)
 

DerBronzeLord

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Do you think a false flag attack by R&AW pretending to be Pak military is possible?
There have been several such instances, with direct acknowledgement by RAW as well. In 1971, India needed to ban Indian airspace to prevent Pak from accessing and supplying Bangladesh. India used a false flag op to close Indian airspace.

https://defenceupdate.in/the-ganga-hijack-drama-how-raw-fooled-pakistan/

At this point, however, there is no need for such an attack, as false flag ops are done to give justification for some other offensive action which would otherwise be inexcusable. A possible time when false flag ops might take place is before PoK's liberation, along with the Balochs and Sindhis. That is, if the Pakis don't conduct an attack of their own volition, which is highly likely.
 

Detective Pennington

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There have been several such instances, with direct acknowledgement by RAW as well. In 1971, India needed to ban Indian airspace to prevent Pak from accessing and supplying Bangladesh. India used a false flag op to close Indian airspace.

https://defenceupdate.in/the-ganga-hijack-drama-how-raw-fooled-pakistan/

At this point, however, there is no need for such an attack, as false flag ops are done to give justification for some other offensive action which would otherwise be inexcusable. A possible time when false flag ops might take place is before PoK's liberation, along with the Balochs and Sindhis. That is, if the Pakis don't conduct an attack of their own volition, which is highly likely.
If anything, i feel like a cold war between US and China is starting to begin. It will take place in Taiwan, Korean peninsula and South Pakistan.

With Regard to South Pakistan, I think US&NATO will be indirectly supplying the Balochis and Sindhis and maybe TTP to attack Pakistan, with China on the other side supplying oil and rubber to Pak military to keep them going. For that purpose, US might use a false flag or something to justify their support, or Israel too (with a slightly different goal of destabilizing Iran). If it seems like the Baloch/Sindhi nationalists are about to actually win and drive the Pakistani military out of their countries, China might intervene directly just like Russia did in Syria in 2015 and Afghanistan in 79, and US did in Vietnam. Because during proxy wars, the side that has more to lose sometimes intervenes directly if their proxy is starting to lose. THAT will be interesting to watch.
 
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Lonewolf

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If anything, i feel like a cold war between US and China is starting to begin. It will take place in Taiwan, Korean peninsula and South Pakistan.

With Regard to South Pakistan, I think US&NATO will be indirectly supplying the Balochis and Sindhis and maybe TTP to attack Pakistan, with China on the other side supplying oil and rubber to Pak military to keep them going. For that purpose, US might use a false flag or something to justify their support, or Israel too (with a slightly different goal of destabilizing Iran). If it seems like the Baloch/Sindhi nationalists are about to actually win and drive the Pakistani military out of their countries, China might intervene directly just like Russia did in Syria in 2015 and Afghanistan in 79, and US did in Vietnam. Because during proxy wars, the side that has more to lose sometimes intervenes directly if their proxy is starting to lose. THAT will be interesting to watch.
That's were indian navy comes to play , Balochistan us like our backyard , it's not a huge area and most of pakistan airspace is under indian air defence system , it's nit afganistan nor syria , pakis will be slaughtered if they trued to pull something similar to isis to harass baloch in case of war
 

HariPrasad-1

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Made Pakistan Economy crash, Supply Baloch freedom fighters weapons, taring and money, Take US, Israel, France and UK in loop and do it.
 

Detective Pennington

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That's were indian navy comes to play , Balochistan us like our backyard , it's not a huge area and most of pakistan airspace is under indian air defence system , it's nit afganistan nor syria , pakis will be slaughtered if they trued to pull something similar to isis to harass baloch in case of war
Yeah I think the US side would want India to play a big role in that case, mainly distracting Pak military with the threat of troop buildup on their eastern border so that they would have to dedicate many of their troops to guarding that border and wouldn't have too many to spare to fight in Balochistan/Sindhudesh. That's also where funding TTP/Afghanistan putting their troops on their Western border comes in, for the same reason, splitting up the military.
 
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DerBronzeLord

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Made Pakistan Economy crash, Supply Baloch freedom fighters weapons, taring and money, Take US, Israel, France and UK in loop and do it.
Why would they support the destruction of Pak? The Israelis, French might support us, but the UK and the US won't, as Pak was created solely for the purpose of keeping India in check. If anything, they may actively resuscitate Pak. It remains to be seen whether they would aid us. However, India can offer more support to the US against Russia, if they agree to against Pak. India-Russia ties are analogous to US-Pak ties after the Afghan pullout. India can downgrade ties with Russia in exchange for US doing the same against Pak. Just a thought, and also remember that several other factors, such as India's dependence on Russian military equipment also exist.
 

Detective Pennington

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Why would they support the destruction of Pak? The Israelis, French might support us, but the UK and the US won't, as Pak was created solely for the purpose of keeping India in check. If anything, they may actively resuscitate Pak. It remains to be seen whether they would aid us. However, India can offer more support to the US against Russia, if they agree to against Pak. India-Russia ties are analogous to US-Pak ties after the Afghan pullout. India can downgrade ties with Russia in exchange for US doing the same against Pak. Just a thought, and also remember that several other factors, such as India's dependence on Russian military equipment also exist.
I think Russia will just upgrade ties with Pak in that case though.

One idea I had was to give Russia influence in South Asia. Meaning say if there is a direct invasion of Pakistan by US/Nato/India to get rid of the nukes (same as they might do for North Korea only replace India with South Korea and Japan in that case) then after the war is won, Russia can basically have Sindhudesh. Say that in order to give that conquered land back to the Sindhi people with their own autonomy and government, they have to enter into some kind of defense partnership with Russia where russia has veto power over any defense related issues and defense related foreign policy and trade, in exchange for rebuilding Sindh after the war, providing Russian troops for additional defense security and being allowed to build military bases wherever they want.

This is useful because it stops Russia from supporting the status quo and supporting China instead of the US, and it reduces the cleanup job for US and allies after as the rest of the coalition only has to deal with Balochistan, Punjab and NWFP (since India would be in control of and responsible for rebuilding POK and Gilgit Baltistan at that time). Which would make them a lot more likely to be okay with "empowering Russia".

Also why do you think France would support India?
 

Lonewolf

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I think Russia will just upgrade ties with Pak in that case though.

One idea I had was to give Russia influence in South Asia. Meaning say if there is a direct invasion of Pakistan by US/Nato/India to get rid of the nukes (same as they might do for North Korea only replace India with South Korea and Japan in that case) then after the war is won, Russia can basically have Sindhudesh. Say that in order to give that conquered land back to the Sindhi people with their own autonomy and government, they have to enter into some kind of defense partnership with Russia where russia has veto power over any defense related issues and defense related foreign policy and trade, in exchange for rebuilding Sindh after the war, providing Russian troops for additional defense security and being allowed to build military bases wherever they want.

This is useful because it stops Russia from supporting the status quo and supporting China instead of the US, and it reduces the cleanup job for US and allies after as the rest of the coalition only has to deal with Balochistan, Punjab and NWFP (since India would be in control of and responsible for rebuilding POK and Gilgit Baltistan at that time). Which would make them a lot more likely to be okay with "empowering Russia".

Also why do you think France would support India?
Strategic reason some influence in ior , if india grows ior would basically be indian area of influence ,major trade flow through it , if you have ally who will protect your interest in ior ,then it's a fair deal
 

Detective Pennington

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I think another thing we need to think about is local support. How popular is the movement?

Porks say it's basically dead and only a few people here and there who are armed and trained by NDS and R&AW like the BLA are causing problems and killing innocent people in terrorist attacks.

On the other hand, there is data that shows that only 37% of the people of that province want independence, but around 79% of Baloch want greater autonomy.

https://web.archive.org/web/2017021...446-37pc-baloch-favour-independence-uk-survey.

The survey is a bit unclear, is the 37% referring to only Balochis, or 37% of the entire province, including Pashtuns. It only says that 12% of Pashtuns specifically support independence. If it's 37% of the entire province, then considering that around 1/3rd of the population is Pashtun, this brings it to around 55% of Baloch favor independence, more than half the Baloch population. This distinction matters because the Pashtuns are concentrated in Northeastern Balochistan near Quetta in the head shaped region, then practically speaking, that part can be ignored when liberating the rest of the province, and just have Afghanistan annex that "head" part around Quetta along with the rest of the Pashtun regions east of the Durand Line (KPK and FATA).

OTOH, if it's only 37% of Baloch, it may be hard for the BLA and other militant groups to convince the rest of the people to join in driving out the Pakistani and later Chinese military.
 

Lonewolf

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I think another thing we need to think about is local support. How popular is the movement?

Porks say it's basically dead and only a few people here and there who are armed and trained by NDS and R&AW like the BLA are causing problems and killing innocent people in terrorist attacks.

On the other hand, there is data that shows that only 37% of the people of that province want independence, but around 79% of Baloch want greater autonomy.

https://web.archive.org/web/2017021...446-37pc-baloch-favour-independence-uk-survey.

The survey is a bit unclear, is the 37% referring to only Balochis, or 37% of the entire province, including Pashtuns. It only says that 12% of Pashtuns specifically support independence. If it's 37% of the entire province, then considering that around 1/3rd of the population is Pashtun, this brings it to around 55% of Baloch favor independence, more than half the Baloch population. This distinction matters because the Pashtuns are concentrated in Northeastern Balochistan near Quetta in the head shaped region, then practically speaking, that part can be ignored when liberating the rest of the province, and just have Afghanistan annex that "head" part around Quetta along with the rest of the Pashtun regions east of the Durand Line (KPK and FATA).

OTOH, if it's only 37% of Baloch, it may be hard for the BLA and other militant groups to convince the rest of the people to join in driving out the Pakistani and later Chinese military.
People may so something else and want something else , fear of pork army , etc.

Balochi who want greater autonomy are the one who didn't saw action yet , every time something happens in neighborhood people take sides .

If liberation war stsrts and pork army suppress Balochi , that will bring more support for bla .
 

Detective Pennington

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People may so something else and want something else , fear of pork army , etc.

Balochi who want greater autonomy are the one who didn't saw action yet , every time something happens in neighborhood people take sides .

If liberation war stsrts and pork army suppress Balochi , that will bring more support for bla .
Ah makes sense. But If CPEC is really complete, will that bring development to Balochistan, and dampen separatist sentiments like the Chinese and Porks are claiming? If so, time is running out, the full blown liberation war should start soon. India needs to take a much bigger stand, give the BLA some F-22's and some C4 to blow up army bases.
 

Lonewolf

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Ah makes sense. But If CPEC is really complete, will that bring development to Balochistan, and dampen separatist sentiments like the Chinese and Porks are claiming? If so, time is running out, the full blown liberation war should start soon. India needs to take a much bigger stand, give the BLA some F-22's and some C4 to blow up army bases.
We don't have f 22 , really which liberation army have even used a mig 21 ever .

Cpec is a meme project , serving Chinese only , pakis are trying to milk them but chonks are not interested , projects are delayed , workers are chinese ,or either the project will serve chinese .

I haven't seen a single benefit of cpec , rest assured if it ever deliver something ,it would most likely be used by Punjabi province for their orgasmic military deveolpment and mordenization , Baloch won't get a penny. No jobs for Balochistan are coming .


We can arm them with atgm , rifle , rocket launcher , some man portable sam missile , and money , every group require money , guve them that they will ensure supplies by themselves , look for indian role in afgan
 

Detective Pennington

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We don't have f 22 , really which liberation army have even used a mig 21 ever .

Cpec is a meme project , serving Chinese only , pakis are trying to milk them but chonks are not interested , projects are delayed , workers are chinese ,or either the project will serve chinese .

I haven't seen a single benefit of cpec , rest assured if it ever deliver something ,it would most likely be used by Punjabi province for their orgasmic military deveolpment and mordenization , Baloch won't get a penny. No jobs for Balochistan are coming .


We can arm them with atgm , rifle , rocket launcher , some man portable sam missile , and money , every group require money , guve them that they will ensure supplies by themselves , look for indian role in afgan
Makes sense. I think this should be the top priority of R&AW now that international virtue signalling leftists like Faiz Shakir inspired Bernie Sanders are spazzing out about Kashmir and Pak is trying to revive Khalistan movement with the Kartakpur corridor and giving undue attention to the farmers protests (along with other random leftists like Greta Thunberg and random celebrities talking about it). In that regard, IDT India should have blacked out the media, made them look like Porks.
 

Lonewolf

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Makes sense. I think this should be the top priority of R&AW now that international virtue signalling leftists like Faiz Shakir inspired Bernie Sanders are spazzing out about Kashmir and Pak is trying to revive Khalistan movement with the Kartakpur corridor and giving undue attention to the farmers protests (along with other random leftists like Greta Thunberg and random celebrities talking about it). In that regard, IDT India should have blacked out the media, made them look like Porks.
We haven't blacked out any media outlet , they arr literally having freedom to air fake news too , we are seeing ground reality here . A little regulation would be better , media people are literally scavenging on dead bodies , fake news like 250 million farmer , 500 million corona cases , 30k deaths are all allowed .

Well if yoi don't mind , would you reveal a bit about yourself ? Country , nri or pio or none ?
 

Detective Pennington

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We haven't blacked out any media outlet , they arr literally having freedom to air fake news too , we are seeing ground reality here . A little regulation would be better , media people are literally scavenging on dead bodies , fake news like 250 million farmer , 500 million corona cases , 30k deaths are all allowed .

Well if yoi don't mind , would you reveal a bit about yourself ? Country , nri or pio or none ?
Ah that makes sense. Liberals in journalism are so idealistic.

Just an Indian-American, born and raised in the US. My loyalty is to the United States first as foremost, as that is my country. I think India doing well is cool, but I would never betray the US to help India. That's why I only talk about stuff that helps US like blocking Chinese energy supply route to the Arabian sea and getting justice for the US troops that died fighting Taliban in Afghanistan unnecessarily when Pak was protecting Taliban the entire time and preventing them from being destroyed once and for all, or justice for 9/11 victims cuz Pak was protecting Bin Laden, in the form of liberating Balochistan and Sindhudesh. I don't care about increasing H1B visas or anything. Just being honest.
 
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Lonewolf

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Ah that makes sense. Liberals in journalism are so idealistic.

Just an Indian-American, born and raised in the US. My loyalty is to the United States first as foremost, as that is my country. I think India doing well is cool, but I would never betray the US to help India. That's why I only talk about stuff that helps US like blocking Chinese energy supply route to the Arabian sea via independent Balochistan and Sindhudesh. I don't care about increasing H1B visas or anything. Just being honest.
Well we don't want any help which may harm US interest from anyone , but we expect a common understanding from people like you that you can differentiate between US interest and US sabotage in India , common benefit can be useful ,in rest matter both Nation don't interfere .

And h1b is basically a route for people to leace their Nation to serve US , while all their capability are due to india , so if it's blocked , it's benefit of india as indian emigration to US consists of stem specialist not cheap labour .

See our interest matched hete
 

Detective Pennington

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Well we don't want any help which may harm US interest from anyone , but we expect a common understanding from people like you that you can differentiate between US interest and US sabotage in India , common benefit can be useful ,in rest matter both Nation don't interfere .

And h1b is basically a route for people to leace their Nation to serve US , while all their capability are due to india , so if it's blocked , it's benefit of india as indian emigration to US consists of stem specialist not cheap labour .

See our interest matched hete
No I agree, there is no point to random sabotage. Cultural Marxists and globalists idealistically supporting "human rights" everywhere without understanding context is not pro-America. The people pushing these things are globalists, not patriots. "Standing up for American values" is just the excuse done for emotional manipulation. People who think Kashmir is worse than Balochistan for example, just because it's politically correct to attack India, a Hindu democracy and not Pakistan, a Muslim dictatorship, is just fear of being accused of Islamophobia and thus "backwards" in the minds of the liberal elite.

And yes come to think of it that's true. It harms the American middle class and brain drains India. I remember reading a Quora answer that stated that with China, they bribe the highly educated intellectuals (like Oxford and MIT grads) to come back to China and launch businesses there, whereas India just lets them work for Google or Microsoft, or be doctors in the US.
 

Lonewolf

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No I agree, there is no point to random sabotage. Cultural Marxists and globalists idealistically supporting "human rights" everywhere without understanding context is not pro-America. The people pushing these things are globalists, not patriots. "Standing up for American values" is just the excuse done for emotional manipulation. People who think Kashmir is worse than Balochistan for example, just because it's politically correct to attack India, a Hindu democracy and not Pakistan, a Muslim dictatorship, is just fear of being accused of Islamophobia and thus "backwards" in the minds of the liberal elite.

And yes come to think of it that's true. It harms the American middle class and brain drains India. I remember reading a Quora answer that stated that with China, they bribe the highly educated intellectuals (like Oxford and MIT grads) to come back to China and launch businesses there, whereas India just lets them work for Google or Microsoft, or be doctors in the US.
You are quite sorted out in these matter , i would suggest you to converse with @LondonParisTokyo , same background as you , but a little more chad
 

DerBronzeLord

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I think another thing we need to think about is local support. How popular is the movement?

Porks say it's basically dead and only a few people here and there who are armed and trained by NDS and R&AW like the BLA are causing problems and killing innocent people in terrorist attacks.

On the other hand, there is data that shows that only 37% of the people of that province want independence, but around 79% of Baloch want greater autonomy.

https://web.archive.org/web/2017021...446-37pc-baloch-favour-independence-uk-survey.

The survey is a bit unclear, is the 37% referring to only Balochis, or 37% of the entire province, including Pashtuns. It only says that 12% of Pashtuns specifically support independence. If it's 37% of the entire province, then considering that around 1/3rd of the population is Pashtun, this brings it to around 55% of Baloch favor independence, more than half the Baloch population. This distinction matters because the Pashtuns are concentrated in Northeastern Balochistan near Quetta in the head shaped region, then practically speaking, that part can be ignored when liberating the rest of the province, and just have Afghanistan annex that "head" part around Quetta along with the rest of the Pashtun regions east of the Durand Line (KPK and FATA).

OTOH, if it's only 37% of Baloch, it may be hard for the BLA and other militant groups to convince the rest of the people to join in driving out the Pakistani and later Chinese military.
I suggest you read the history of the 1971 War extensively, as there are several parallels which can be used here. Propaganda, if used rightly, can sway any populace on the planet, irrespective of nationality or religion. If it 37% at this stage, without any active propaganda effort by Indian intelligence(at least, as far as I see), I consider those to be good numbers. Propaganda works in different ways, including the setting up of alternative radio stations and TV channels to ensure Pak doesn't interfere in their operation, victimization and reinforcing the belief that the Balochs are not the same as the rest of Pakistan. The faultline which must be used to the best possible extent is the divide between the supposedly-dominant Punjabi population and the rest of Pakistan. The main complication though will be the Islamist influence in Balochistan along with the presence of a large Pashtun population(I guess around 36%). The presence of Pashtuns is a pretty big problem imo.

When it comes to the war itself, the Balochs don't need fighters, nor can we afford to give them those. A few helicopters are possible, as India did with the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, but several other logistical problems, including the setting up of helipads and stationing of IAF personnel for repair and management would also exist. At this point, the raising of a cadre-based guerilla force is what is required, armed with basic weaponry. Delivery can possibly be routed through Afg. I am unaware of the logistics of this plan, but I recently heard a talk given by Maj. Gaurav Arya, where he said that it would be possible to train and arm Balochs through Lakshadweep. A cool idea, but it ignores the presence of the Pakistani Coastal Guard, and the sheer distance, but this idea is worth exploring.

If Balochistan must be freed however, they cannot afford to be alone and fight off the Pakistan Army, as the latter's strength and technological advantage is very high as compared to the Balochs. In the event of Balochistan's liberation, Indian intervention along the IB and LoC will be required. It would be interesting to consider a naval invasion of Balochistan by India.
 

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