Poll, should women be allowed in combat?

Should women be allowed to join military or not.


  • Total voters
    41

happy

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Raja Raja Chola Had his personal body gaurds as women.

LTTE had Female special operatives, who were part of Sea Tigers. You can understand the type of mission they are required to carry on. and they came from a typical Conservative Tamil Back ground. Even in the Final Eelam War they proved their mettle.
Even Gaddafi had his ladies :p
 

Ray

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Raja Raja Chola Had his personal body gaurds as women.

LTTE had Female special operatives, who were part of Sea Tigers. You can understand the type of mission they are required to carry on. and they came from a typical Conservative Tamil Back ground. Even in the Final Eelam War they proved their mettle.
They had a strong, unrelenting cause. A 'calling'. An inner urge or a strong impulse, to follow a path, so to say.

But in India, the truth is, it is a career.

If that was not so, would you have such most unsoldierly acts being perpetuated today of frauds, routinely done, and acts of gross insubordination?

It is no longer a 'calling'.

I attended the Infantry Day the other day. Old timers lamented that it is going from bad to worse.

I also had a long chat with a CMP JCO just to 'feel the pulse'.

I listened patiently and feeding questions.

He was surprised when later I told him my rank.

The feeling I came back with, was that the there is a void in the officer men relationship.

I was surprised to find that I was equating the current officer men relationship with Rahul Gandhi's protestation that he understand poverty well, having spent a day with the poor!

True Rahul Gandhi 'saw' poverty, but you have to experience it to understand its true impact!

Likewise, you have to experience the hardship of the men to realise the same. I could give examples how, but then another time.

Or like the case of the lady doctor in the battle zone.

It sounds ever so nice and intellectual and modern to bat for women in combat, but when you experience it, do you realise the pitfalls and how it can affect efficiency in the conduct of battle and, more importantly, winning it with single minded concentration, rather than frittering away on inconsequentials.
 
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happy

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I thought you GenX chaps used 'Chillax', which I was told was 'Chill' + 'Relax'!
Too much headache with GenX. I prefer the good old times but sadly they are not going to come back. :thumb:
 

nirranj

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They had a strong, unrelenting cause. A 'calling'. An inner urge or a strong impulse, to follow a path, so to say.

But in India, the truth is, it is a career.

It sounds ever so nice and intellectual and modern to bat for women in combat, but when you experience it, do you realise the pitfalls and how it can affect efficiency in the conduct of battle and, more importantly, winning it with single minded concentration, rather than frittering away on inconsequentials.
Sir I am suggesting to study how the LTTE woman lived in battle fields, training fields, Civil society etc. They were the most recent example of Women fighting a war.

Yes they chose to take up the role because of the urge they had to serve the purpose of a Free nation for their heirs to live on. but Still they are culturally similar to our mainland woman. We could study the infrastructue LTTE could put up for their women cadres, how men and women interacted in combat duties, what type of roles did woman take up when mixed gender teams were conducting missions etc.

They lost the war, but they can give us examples and lessons If we are thinking on allowing woman into combat.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Someone brought up this discussion even before. And this is probably what I commented:

If out of 100 candidates, 10 men complete the whole training as compared to only 2 women..it is more efficient to train men as compared to women..In that case it is better to keep only men in combat, unless the country is overflowing with funds(which is never the case!!).
 

Ray

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Sir I am suggesting to study how the LTTE woman lived in battle fields, training fields, Civil society etc. They were the most recent example of Women fighting a war.

Yes they chose to take up the role because of the urge they had to serve the purpose of a Free nation for their heirs to live on. but Still they are culturally similar to our mainland woman. We could study the infrastructue LTTE could put up for their women cadres, how men and women interacted in combat duties, what type of roles did woman take up when mixed gender teams were conducting missions etc.

They lost the war, but they can give us examples and lessons If we are thinking on allowing woman into combat.
I am not denying that women are as good, if not better, than men.

Closer to time, I am aware that there have been many women who have killed British leading personalities in Bengal and suffered the consequence. Brave and determined they are and of that there is no doubt.

My contention is that in the modern combat zone, women have their own requirements and it merely impinges on the efficiency to address combat.
 

nirranj

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I am not denying that women are as good, if not better, than men.

Closer to time, I am aware that there have been many women who have killed British leading personalities in Bengal and suffered the consequence. Brave and determined they are and of that there is no doubt.

My contention is that in the modern combat zone, women have their own requirements and it merely impinges on the efficiency to address combat.
I accept Your Authority in saying what You have said. But i am just saying we can study the LTTE women cadre If we are thinking of putting Women in combat. They are the most recent Example of women fighting a Army equipped with Tanks and Aircrafts. So they are the perfect samples we have to study, considering the fate they suffered in the hands of the enemy. They were raped, tortured, burned from inside out, Even Hitlers Gas chambers will dwarf against the cruelity of the SL army and its ways in dealing with LTTE women and even Men. So I am asking Knowledged persons Like You with Miliary experience to study the LTTE women cadre and their day to day life in combat zones. This will help you to guide our women If they are aspiring to take up the career of a Jawan.
 

Ray

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@nirranj

We do study all aspects since enrolling women in the Armed Forces is a political directive that has been chorused by the Gender Equality Lobby, who are merely out to be in the limelight without any practical ideas, The Fashionable Western aping apes.

We have to keep ourselves abreast so that we can explain to the Govt the pros and cons.
 
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nirranj

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@nirranj

We do study all aspects since enrolling women in the Armed Forces is a political directive that has been chorused by the Gender Equality Lobby, who are merely out to be in the limelight without any practical ideas, The Fashionable Western aping apes.

We have to keep ourselves abreast so that we can explain to the Govt the pros and cons.
That is Why I am not questioning Your Authority Sir. I wish we make Informed Decisions in this regard and not toe the equality mongers.

Thanks for Taking time in Explaining to Me.
 
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Ray

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US military sexual assault reports soared 50% in 2013, says Pentagon

Reports of sexual assault filed by members of the military have soared by an unprecedented 50%, according to an annual survey by the Pentagon published on Thursday.

It remains unclear whether the new figures signify a jump in the number of assaults or whether they could be the result of more military personnel coming forward to file reports.

The US Department of Defense, which has introduced reforms over the past year, said that they were confident the increase in reporting was down to greater trust and confidence in the military justice system among victims.

The figures show 5,061 reports of sexual assault filed in the fiscal year ending 2013, compared to 3,400 in fiscal year 2012. About 10% of the 2013 reports involved incidents that occurred before the victim joined the military, up from just 4% in 2012.

Since 2006, the number of of sexual assaults filed has increased, but only by an average of 6% per year.

The significant increase in reporting follows high-profile efforts by members of Congress and advocacy groups to highlight military sexual violence and the chronic under-reporting they say stems from a lack of trust in the military's ability to administer justice to perpetrators.

Only 14% of the reports filed last year were men, and one of six fresh initiatives announced on Thursday by Chuck Hagel, the defence secretary, is aimed at encouraging more male victims to come forward.

In the last year, Hagel has issued 22 directives covering a range of reforms, including actions to expand victims' rights, improving legal support in the form of special victims counsel, more commander accountability and stricter penalties for those convicted of sexual assault. The military has also acted to increase awareness of the issue and to encourage victims to come forward.

At a press conference on Thursday, Hagel said that one of the issues that needed addressing was a cultural stigma within the military that victims may be perceived as weak.

Hagel called on the military services to step up efforts to encourage troops to intervene in sexual assault situations and work with military bases and communities to better train bar workers and promote more responsible alcohol sales. According to officials, alcohol was a factor in as many as two-thirds of the cases.

Under the military's definition, a sexual assault can be anything from unwanted sexual contact, such as inappropriate touching or groping, to sodomy and rape.

"There is no indication that this increase in reporting constitutes an increase in crime," said Major General Jeffrey Snow, director of the Pentagon's sexual assault prevention and response office. "We assess that this unprecedented increase is consistent with a growing confidence in the response systems."

However, critics of the military's approach to its sexual assault crisis said it was impossible to draw any conclusions from the figures.

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, chair of the Senate armed services subcommittee on personnel, who has lobbied for commanders to be stripped of their power to make decisions on prosecution of sexual assault, said that since the report did not include an estimate of the total crimes committed, no conclusion could be drawn. She described the report as "troubling" and said it should "send a chill down's people's spines".

"A system where only one out of 10 reported cases proceed to trial for a survivor to have a fair shot at receiving justice is simply not working. Using last year's baseline of an estimated 26,000 total cases of unwanted sexual contact, we have a system where eight out of 10 victims of sexual assault still do not trust the chain of command enough to report the crime committed against them. That is a system screaming for additional reform."

The report showed that 838 cases were preferred to court-martial, compared to 594 last year. Out of the 838 case that went to court martial, only 484 proceeded to trial, and 376 led to convictions.

There have been a number of high-profile cases in recent months where senior figures in the military have been accused of sexual misconduct. The navy last week said it was investigating allegations of misconduct by Captain Gregory McWherter, the former commanding officer of the Blue Angels, the navy's precision aerobatics flight squadron. McWherter is accused of tolerating an inappropriate work environment in the Blue Angels, allowing or in some cases encouraging "lewd speech, inappropriate comments, and sexually explicit humor".

Major General Michael Harrison, former commander of US army forces in Japan was recently disciplined for failing to take appropriate action in response to sexual assault allegations while he was commander.

And last month, the army was forced into a plea deal with a brigadier general being court-martialed on sexual-misconduct charges after a judge found evidence of political interference.

Nancy Parish, president of Protect Our Defenders, said: "The news of DOD's latest report, coupled with the long list of recent bungled courts-martial and trivial punishments of those convicted, highlights the severity of the military's sexual assault epidemic."

She said the "persistent stream of reports "¦ suggests the military is either unwilling or incapable of solving this crisis, and further underscores the need for strong action from our elected leaders, whose failure to support an objective, impartial military justice system for our troops makes them complicit."

In March, the Senate narrowly defeated Gillibrand's bill that would have stripped commanders of their authority to oversee the prosecutions of sexual assault cases and other major crimes. The Pentagon had lobbied heavily against the measure.

This week, Gillibrand said she would try to bring her bill to a vote again this year.

US military sexual assault reports soared 50% in 2013, says Pentagon | World news | theguardian.com
This is in a country where women are not so bashful in reporting rape and demanding individual rights.

In India?

And in the Indian military?
 

Sylex21

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The logical answer is simple. It should be based on what is best for the armed forces and on no other factors. Can a nation of 1.2 BILLION people not find enough qualified men to serve?

1. Economics, we would need to build infastructure and facilities for women, this would come at great cost. Assuming women were 100% as good as men, would there be ANY benefit at all?

2. Our main enemy Pakistani's are some of the biggest rapists on the planet, how would they treat any female soldiers captured in combat?

3. Are women likely to be better than men at warfare? Seems nearly impossible, at the very least even if equally capable (itself very unlikely) would they have the same musculature, ability to lift equipment, stamina, running speed as men? - No they would not.

4. What would be the affect on the troops? Studying cases from other armies, we see that mixed gender units tend to have much much higher cases of promiscuity, sexual harassment and rape.

Conclusion: Women should be allowed to serve in the military if it is in the best needs of our armed forces. In many other countries there is a shortage of well qualified applicants, but in a country of India's size there is no shortage of qualified male applicants. Because women in the armed forces, bring some risks and drawbacks at the very least and not a single benefit to the armed forces, they should not be allowed to serve in the military.
 

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