Political will to use N weapons

[roma]

POlitical Will to use N wepon

With China using a step by step approach to encroach upon I territory before makeing a quick push , my question is at what point will N weapons actuially be used on them and will the politivcal leadership be willng to communicate that to beijing ? otherwise all the stockpiling in the wont be of use if the guts to use them is not apparent.

 

[sky]

NEVER I HOPE
During the falklands war britain threatened to use its nukes on argentina if they used chemical wepons on british soldiers.they surfaced there sub of the coast of argentina ,just so the argentians could see they were for real.this was a ruse as the brits were never gong to use them so close to america.word got round to the americans who were pissed with the brits,the up shot was the americans sold us the sidewinder missiles.on the promise we wont use our nukes,the result was we downed so many argy planes they grounded there air force as they were picked of one by one.we had total air control and won the war.you see war is about stength and deception you rule nothing out and give the enemy planners a headache.which is why our [no first stike ]should never have been made public.china was given a huge boost now they dont even have to consider the indian nuke threat.plus america will pull out all the stops to make nukes are not used .i some times think indian politicians are plain thick,we have nukes so we dont give the game away,can you name one country that has nukes and talks so freely of how they will be used.keep your mouth shut or repeat [we rule nothing out]

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Both countries have pledged a NFU policy.

 

[advaita]

If you can believe present Indian doctrine of NFU then surely you can believe in the same doctrine saying Massive Nuke Retaliation on first use of any of the options of the N, B & C.

Ideal thing to do would be to use the Strength of democracy to make it clear to Xi Hin (or whoever he is, very ably protected by CCP) that Indians wont be cowed down.
Lets educate our people on the dangers of Chinese 20/30 plan and lets get the IG to include the Massive Nuke Retaliation even in the case of use of Chinese 20/30 plan on India

Pakistan has this clause in there doctrine.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

If you can believe present Indian doctrine of NFU then surely you can believe in the same doctrine saying Massive Nuke Retaliation on first use of any of the options of the N, B & C.

Then, has it occurred to you that the first strike would be a massive one designed to reduce your retallitory measures to tolerable levels?

 

[Known_Unknown]

^^And hence the launch of the ATV and plan to build up a SSBN force?

 

[venom]

Offense is the best defense......y take a hit if u have the capability of neutralizing the other

 

[Officer of Engineers]

^^And hence the launch of the ATV and plan to build up a SSBN force?

And if they're already targetted?

And I ain't talking about China.

 

[advaita]

And if they're already targetted?

And I ain't talking about China.

Yes OoE my point is the same. Pueblo and kin + killer subs are already stalking them probably already have the all the signatures they need only to be transfered to the CCP to help them avoid the embarrasement of a massive second strike. That is why I was in favour of massive deployment of Mobile Missiles and trying to urge others to start thinking along new lines. Remember the hard time US had in tracing Scud launchers in Desert storm.

Even the massive first strike by both will leave enough time for the Massive second strike by mobile missiles.

Also the new methods that I wanted to prompt people to think along is the Genetic and bio warfare weapons (long and arduous yes but worth it) and new delivery methods and some kind of Tech warfare (imminently do-able, the infra is actually very vulnerable and you know that).

TOTALITY.

 

[prahladh]

We have First-strike and second strike capabilities but not massive enough. We need to develop numbers too.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Nuclear force as a political weapon would be useless against china as they better armed with nukes.
Political use N-force is only against those country who are not armed with nukes, don't have capability to drop nukes in you country or you are capable to intercept or neutralize your enemies nuke.
We can't achieve any such condition against china, so political use of N-force against china is useless.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Yes OoE my point is the same. Pueblo and kin + killer subs are already stalking them probably already have the all the signatures they need only to be transfered to the CCP to help them avoid the embarrasement of a massive second strike.

I seriously think you over-estimate the Chinese, even if they do get all the signatures in the world. I'm talking about India being on the receiving end of either an American or a Russian 1st strike.

Don't think it won't happen? How long ago was the US and China on the same side and back then, the US still had all of China's nukes targetted.

That is why I was in favour of massive deployment of Mobile Missiles and trying to urge others to start thinking along new lines.

Mobile missiles raises its own set of headaches and heartaches, least of which that launch sites and travel routes have to be protected. The last thing you need is a traffic jam while going to your launch site or your rail lines cut. Silos have the advantage of reduced protection needs. A sniper with a .50BMG putting two holes in your rocket and all you get is a fireball at launch.

Remember the hard time US had in tracing Scud launchers in Desert storm.

That raises the other issue. Remember how accurate those SCUDs were?

Even the massive first strike by both will leave enough time for the Massive second strike by mobile missiles.

You're assuming your C3 is still in working order.

Also the new methods that I wanted to prompt people to think along is the Genetic and bio warfare weapons (long and arduous yes but worth it) and new delivery methods and some kind of Tech warfare (imminently do-able, the infra is actually very vulnerable and you know that).

TOTALITY.

India signed the BWC and the CWC.

 

[Yusuf]

Rimser, venom,

with about 200 nukes, ours is not a first strike arsenel nor is Chinese or for that matter the British and French. We have a deterance arsenel.
The only ones dho have a first strike arsenel is the US and Russia as they have tens of thousands. A first strike has to make sure we take out the complete enemy C3, their second strike capabilty which I don't think can be achieved with what we have right now.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

I keep bringing these documents but no one is reading them

Nuclear Warfare 101
Nuclear Warfare 102
Nuclear Warfare 103

Stuart Slade was a nuclear weapons targeteer. Most of you need to understand what is required to fight a nuclear war before I can present Dr Jeffery's The Minimum Means of Reprisal paper which while focuses on the Chinese details very well the concept of nuclear deterrence as opposed to nuclear warfighting.

Most of you are right now focused on nuclear warfighting and not on deterrence. There is a big difference.

 

[Yusuf]

Sir,
reading those documents, it gives me the impression that even the US or USSR could not have won a nuke war. The initial pointer by the writer is that it's better to have a good conventional force than military. Thst possesing nukes limits you. What immediately came to my mind was the Kargil war and why India took pains to not expand the war.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

reading those documents, it gives me the impression that even the US or USSR could not have won a nuke war.

Not a very comfortable thought, especially when you're on the front lines, and imagining your family being burned alive and seeing those CF-104s, taking off, not hard to imagine whose babies they were going to burn.

All to no avail.

 

[Yusuf]

Sir,
Did the soviets and US or do they still have secret silos in cities? As per that doc, attacking cities and population centers is less effective than industrial and military centers. So why not have them in areas the enemy thinks it's not worth it?

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Never had them in civilian centres. Protection requirements are too great. A guy with a hunting rifle shooting from his apt, putting a couple of holes in the rocket and the rocket is a fireball.

However, military bases are well within reach of cities. Canadian Forces Base Lahrs, Germany was tasked with no less than 6 Soviet nukes. The resulting blast waves would have rendered the City of Lahrs a ghost town.

 

[Yusuf]

Sir,
a silo disguised and not known to anyone. I mean the purpose of putting one in a city would be lost if everyone knew about it.
I'm asking this question as the enemy will mostly gun gor industrial and military centers and not civilian.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Missiles, periodically, have to be sent back to the factory to be refurbished. Batteries die, rust sets in, the fuel got to be taken out and the missile hull examined for corrosion. Solid rocket fuel is very corrosive. Even the warhead got to be taken apart and put back together.

So, it's kinda hard to hide that kind of thing.