People’s Liberation Army – Calling the Bluff

Neil

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So I came across THIS 2015 news report, some days ago. A piece that I found V.E.R.Y interesting. The headline is catchy enough – ‘UN peacekeepers refused to help as aid workers were raped in South Sudan’. But it is the second part of the headline that caught my eye – Chinese troops abandoned their posts rather than engage in fighting and protect civilians.

Interesting, I thought. Did a little more digging around on the www and came across another nugget of V.E.R.Y interesting information. Will come to that in the latter part of this blog post. But first let me share some thoughts on the piece above.

Firstly let us talk about the facts listed out in the news report above:-

  • The Chinese peacekeepers were entrusted with the responsibility of a one civilian protection site in Juba.
  • In the month of July 2015, fierce attacks were mounted by one of the rebel groups in Sudan, leading to ‘tens of thousands’ of civilians seeking safety from successive bouts of fighting, at that site.
  • However, the Chinese peacekeepers stayed on in their bases rather than protect civilians. Heck, even the Ethiopian troops had done far better, helping evacuate wounded civilians and returning fire when needed.
  • On the last day of the fighting, about 80 to 100 government soldiers attacked a compound in Juba where they raped and gang-raped at least five international aid workers and physically or sexually assaulted at least a dozen others.
  • All this happened when there was a UN Base manned by Chinese peacekeepers only a few hundred metres from the compound. However despite dozens of appeals for help from the besieged aid workers and personal visits from at least one who escaped from the compound, the Chinese peacekeepers simply REFUSED to leave the safety of their base.
  • During four days of fighting between the rival forces, artillery rounds and gunfire hit two UN bases, killing two Chinese peacekeepers. And what did the vaunted PLA troopers do? They not only failed to return fire, but in fact, RAN AWAY FROM THEIR POST. To add insult to injury, in their haste to save their skins, they even left behind their weapons and ammo – something a professional soldier would not even dream of doing. EVER.
So here is what I make of the entire issue – The PLA soldier didn’t move out of the safety of his compound, favouring his personal safety over his responsibility to his fellow human beings. To some extent (and I say this ‘coz I am not entirely aware of the rules of engagement they were bound by), this might be explained by the rules of engagement that MIGHT have prevented them from interfering in the factional fighting in the area. MIGHT have, ‘coz I am not sure it actually prevented them. More on that in the latter part of this blog. However, even the refusal to fire back in self defence, more so when two of their comrades had been fatally wounded, reeks of cowardice. And then the biggest ignominy a professional soldier can heap upon himself – they fcuking abandoned their posts and ran away. Not only that, they left behind their weapons and ammo.

An entire post cowering behind the apparent safety of their compound walls instead of discharging their duty when humanity is being raped and murdered all around. When the compound too becomes unsafe, they emulate their Pakistani friends’ favourite battlefield tactic – they run away! And this is the bunch of (fill in the blank) with which the PRC threatens the battle hardened Indian Army today!

Now coming to another interesting nugget I discovered when searching for more info on this incident. I came across THIS report. It was the Indian Army that saved their sorry backsides. The report itself doesn’t mention the abandonment of posts by the PLA peacekeepers. Very ‘convenient’ omission, I say.

However, as per the report, INDBATT II, comprising of the men of 7th Battalion The Kumaon Regiment, who were held in reserve, were asked to take charge and restore the situation, which they did with extreme professionalism and ruthlessness. Here’s a typically modest way the news report chose to describe their actions – ‘It was learnt that troops also secured the perimeter which was smashed by the IDPs and ensured the armed militiamen were weeded out.’ Yes, they ‘secured’ the perimeter and ensured the armed militiamen were ‘weeded out’. Typical Indian media’s way of underselling themselves. Or perhaps, something that they are so used to from the Indian Army, that they take it as a matter of fait accompli – Send in Indian troops, job will be done.

Btw, it was the same militiamen who had scared the hell out of the famed PLA troops and routed them that the Kumaonis calmly ‘weeded out’. Rest of the report makes for an interesting read too.

So here it is. An Army that fought its last war in 1979, an army that has ‘won’ against an outsider only once in 5000 years of its nation’s history, in 1962, was exposed for what it was – shiny toys and scared brats afraid to wield them when time comes. (Regarding the ‘war experience’ of the PLA, that is a blog post which will come in another few weeks, btw)

Sabre rattling in front of apparently weaker neighbours is fine, but god save you if the ‘weaker’ neighbour draws out his own sword!

(Oh, btw, the title of the photograph of PLA Peacekeepers posted on top of this blog, in The Guardian report is – ‘Peacekeeping troops in South Sudan ‘underperformed’ during violence in July.’)

’nuff said!


 

Neil

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People’s Liberation Army – Calling The Bluff (Part II)

So apparently, my previous blog on the PLA Peacekeepers running away under fire in South Sudan (LINK) gathered quite a few eyeballs, being shared on some other blogs, fora and WhatsApp too. This what follows, came as part of a WhatsApp message on my school classmates’ group, not particularly addressed to me. Won’t comment on the authenticity of the message ‘coz I have no way of confirming that. Posting it here for two reasons – Firstly, the tone doesn’t seem too different from the essence of my original blog post and secondly, the need to archive the message in some form.

:BEGINNING OF WHATSAPP MESSAGE:

This is from the company commander of the 7 Kumaon company in UNMISS, reinforcing sect south. CHINBAT was part of sect south. Before I comment anything on the article (the ‘article’ refers to my blog post quoted above), I must inform you that I was very impressed of Chinese and their abilities when I was serving with scouts and used to assume Chinese as modern and well equipped army. Chinese had made an impression in my mind that they were superior to us. So when I reached Juba to reinforce Sect south we used to see Chinese soldiers in well equipped and modern attire with hi tech equipment. Therefore my belief of Chinese soldier being better to Indian soldier strengthened. So I always used to be afraid of its negative effects on our boys who used to compare own dress, equipment , vehicles, weapons and drills with that of Cinese, because some day same troops may face each other on LAC or the disputed territories.

Nevertheless, it was the sincere endeavour of my company to practice tactical drills sincerely on daily basis. Focus used to practice reactions to unconventional situations. Hence we evolved non traditional drills. By the time the fighting erupted, each individual of my company was aware and trained in his task and role in his sub unit. During the civil war, Indian company was tasked to reinforce CHINBAT , who were holding the perimeter. By the time No 7 platoon of Indian Company reached the perimeter, Chinese had abandoned their posts and moved back to safer places exposing IDPs to fire from outside. When one of the Chinese officer was asked for the reason they have withdrawn, he said , “It’s not safe out there.” So, Indians had no choice but to plug the breach in perimeter defences, which was done by the Indians in most professional manner and without a scratch.

Observing Indian tactical drills and there ability to outperform Chinese in holding the perimeter, Chinese were forced to hold balance of the perimeter. Next day, No 8 platoon was tasked to control the refugees who had jumped the fence and infiltrated inside UN compound. Third platoon was also sucked in reinforcing these two platoons and looking after other UN employees who were seeking shelter and food. Next day, When rebel forces were fighting the Govt forces at Northern perimeter, a CHINBAT soldier was busy shooting the war scenes. Ill trained militia aimed and shot a RPG at CHINBAT soldier recording ongoing war from BMP, killing two Chinese soldiers and injuring 5 others.

But astonishingly, Chinese could manage international media. CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera were running clips of CHINBAT doing battle drills which were previously recorded. Own Media was highlighting the achievements of External Affairs Dept for successfully evacuating 325 Indians. It was known to every south Sudanese and UN employee in South Sudan that they were saved by Indian company. Unfortunately, achievement of Indians was neither highlighted by foreign media not own.

Secondly, Chinese refused to perform the task assigned by force HQ. Task was to evacuate NGO workers who were threatened by south sudan Govt forces. Later on it was revealed that they were raped by Govt forces. I was bit perturbed by insensitive media who could not exploit this opportunity to expose Chinese or to flag achievement of Indian troops on foreign soil. But at the same time when I ask my boys of their opinion about Chinese troops, the war had changed their and my impression or opinion about Chinese. Chinese may be well equipped with technologically superior weapons but at the same time they lack camaraderie, tactical acumen to use / employ tech equipment, and above all fighting spirit. My faith in the abilities of Indian soldier has strengthened many fold. It is due to the abilities of Indian soldier to withstand hardships of war, superior tactics, camaraderie, fighting spirit for unit’s izzat and actual fighting experience in valley or north east.

:END OF WHATSAPP MESSAGE:

Highlights and font colours are added by me. I thought of adding some comments at the end of the above message, but now I think I think I’d rather not. The message is a brutal commentary on the quality of the PLA soldier that threatens his Indian counterpart across the LAC.

All I’ll say is that shiny toys are no good, if the boys don’t know how to ‘play’ with them when asked to.

’nuff said

 

rockdog

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I think during 1959 Nehru found more such evidence than these kind of stories...

Then we knew the result 3 yrs later.

Never underestimate your competitor...
 
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aghamarshana

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I think during 1959 Nehru found more such evidence than these kind of stories...
Hence Dalai Lama is still in India. Ain't it? We saw ur designs then itself.

Then we knew the result 3 yrs later.
Hastily fought, without shoes and jackets, let alone ammo. 3 PVCs tell me a lot abt the absolute slaughter Chinese army/commie party workers received from our side.

Real result came within 5 yrs at Cho La and Nathu La.
Something which made China to think twice before looking South of Tibet.
 

Longewala

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I think during 1959 Nehru found more such evidence than these kind of stories...

Then we knew the result 3 yrs later.

Never underestimate your competitor...
The only problem was India believed the "hindi Chini Bhai Bhai" stories while China saw India is a competitor

The lesson here is not about "underestimating" it's about recognising Chinese for the snakes they are
 

vampyrbladez

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I think during 1959 Nehru found more such evidence than these kind of stories...

Then we knew the result 3 yrs later.

Never underestimate your competitor...
Then why did China scurry from Dokhlam like a dog with it's tail between it's legs?

You are a one child army! We are a 10000 year old civilisation! Get ready for your demographic decline!
 

rockdog

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Hence Dalai Lama is still in India. Ain't it? We saw ur designs then itself.
Just take it, we don't need him.


Hastily fought, without shoes and jackets, let alone ammo. 3 PVCs tell me a lot abt the absolute slaughter Chinese army/commie party workers received from our side.
Casualties and losses

China:
722 killed
548–1,047 wounded

India:
1,383 killed
1,696 missing
1,047 wounded
3,968 captured
 

rockdog

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The only problem was India believed the "hindi Chini Bhai Bhai" stories while China saw India is a competitor

The lesson here is not about "underestimating" it's about recognising Chinese for the snakes they are
Try two books:
Himalayan Blunder

Joha Dalvi is the highest ranking officer captured by PLA.

India's China War



Check out how many stupid thing urself made. Don't blame China for own stupidities.
 

Longewala

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Try two books:
Himalayan Blunder

Joha Dalvi is the highest ranking officer captured by PLA.

India's China War



Check out how many stupid thing urself made. Don't blame China for own stupidities.
Yes we were stupid, not to recognise China are a bunch of snakes.
That's why we had underequipped, hastily gathered and unprepared troops in 1962.

We learned, just like practically every single neighbour of China over the past decades.
That's why we have ten plus mountain divisions now, as the only language you understand is that of force.
 

vampyrbladez

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Really? There are tons of new stuff been built there, you mean it shows victory from IA?














Your troops were uprooted from their incursion and now you are being forced to build on delineated territory?

Is that all the PLA can do? Hide behind walls while fighting African tribes and run when facing a battle hardened professional army?

In ramp-up, 75% roads on China border ready

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...ina-border-ready/amp_articleshow/73409778.cms


India catches up with China, builds over 3,000 km of roads along border in 20 years

https://theprint.in/defence/india-c...of-roads-along-border-in-20-years/323777/?amp


India pushes to complete 61 strategic roads on China border by 2022

https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-pushes-to-complete-61-strategic-roads-on-china-border-by-2022/story-mN9y4D98UOOu72me9RrmTI_amp.html
 

rockdog

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Yes we were stupid, not to recognise China are a bunch of snakes.
That's why we had underequipped, hastily gathered and unprepared troops in 1962.

We learned, just like practically every single neighbour of China over the past decades.
Technically, you can say it's the IA is unprepared or lack of quality weapons.

But strategically, from a Chinese view, we see Indian wanted to be the natural successor of Great British empire in subcontinengt. This kind of mindset made Nehru and administration wanted to set Tibet as buffer zone between India and China.

But China didn't accept that, then the war happended. So now the buffer zone seems somewhere quite nearby New Dheli and Siliguri.


That's why we have ten plus mountain divisions now, as the only language you understand is that of force.
It's because the current border quite near to your most important economic areas and capital city. Plus the border area on India side is very weak on infrasctures and your troop lack of mobility.

From China side, deploy too many troops on Tibet is quite wasteful, we just need to keep the mobility and infrasctures ready.
 

scatterStorm

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Nothing much will happen, PLA or PLAF cannot make a move, doing so would be a major blunder. IAF has covered up the air, thoroughly, and IA is a military supremacy since 1999.

1. China cannot make a pitch fork maneuver because of the geography.
2. At best they can, try to cut us of near Chumbi valley, but they do understand that they have to face the mountain strike division, along with our CIEWS . So no, not happening.
3. If they go with ballistics, we will go with ballistics.
4. If they approach us through air, well you know who's got a better airforce already.
5. Logistics simply doesn't support that level of aggression, any move is actually a negative for PLAN or PLAF.
 

Longewala

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Technically, you can say it's the IA is unprepared or lack of quality weapons.

But strategically, from a Chinese view, we see Indian wanted to be the natural successor of Great British empire in subcontinengt. This kind of mindset made Nehru and administration wanted to set Tibet as buffer zone between India and China.

But China didn't accept that, then the war happended. So now the buffer zone seems somewhere quite nearby New Dheli and Siliguri.




It's because the current border quite near to your most important economic areas and capital city. Plus the border area on India side is very weak on infrasctures and your troop lack of mobility.

From China side, deploy too many troops on Tibet is quite wasteful, we just need to keep the mobility and infrasctures ready.
So to summarise,
Take a large, friendly peer country which is barely militarised

Be an arrogant, aggressive scumbag and "win" a battle against an unprepared army

End up with a hostile neighbour with a large army facing you on difficult terrain, multiple reverses in subsequent battles and has a strategic position blicking your main water routes in case of war.

Well done.
 

IndianHawk

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Nothing much will happen, PLA or PLAF cannot make a move, doing so would be a major blunder. IAF has covered up the air, thoroughly, and IA is a military supremacy since 1999.

1. China cannot make a pitch fork maneuver because of the geography.
2. At best they can, try to cut us of near Chumbi valley, but they do understand that they have to face the mountain strike division, along with our CIEWS . So no, not happening.
3. If they go with ballistics, we will go with ballistics.
4. If they approach us through air, well you know who's got a better airforce already.
5. Logistics simply doesn't support that level of aggression, any move is actually a negative for PLAN or PLAF.
Also we now have ultra light howitzer at heights . We literally hold the high ground when it comes to artillery and firepower.
We outnumber them in every possible way.
We have much more capable infrastructure now as 3000km of border roads have been completed , many brideges build and we can mobilise more rapidly then chinkies. ( This is the whole reason they are so triggered we match their infra now and are building more and more roads rattling their insecurities in tibet bwhahaha.)

Their ballistic missiles are not of much use against our reinforced air fields .

And USA is regularly violating their air space and sea area with increasing frequency.

And the Chinese depend on 1500km long supply lines lol. Tibet is their achlies heal.
 

IndianHawk

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So to summarise,
Take a large, friendly peer country which is barely militarised

Be an arrogant, aggressive scumbag and "win" a battle against an unprepared army

End up with a hostile neighbour with a large army facing you on difficult terrain, multiple reverses in subsequent battles and has a strategic position blicking your main water routes in case of war.

Well done.
That's why I laugh at whole farsighted ccp planning for hundreds years trope.

They are so smart that they made the second most populous nation( Soon to be first) on Earth into a permanent enemy only to capture some barren land. They could've gotten half of it anyway if they tried to negotiate peacefully.

And then ccp planned for hundreds of years with one child policy and now Chinese birth rate is bust. They are officially an ageing society with 300 million people over 60 already. Their future is adult diapers and more and more hospitals.

And now they have made half the world their enemy with corona and later denial / blaming USA.

I have yet to see a governing body as stupid as ccp. Bwhahaha.
 

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