Pak's illegally modified missiles a new threat for India: Report

slugger

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U.S. Accuses Pakistan of Altering Missiles

The United States has accused Pakistan of illegally modifying American-made missiles to expand its capability to strike land targets, a potential threat to India, according to senior administration and Congressional officials.

The charge, which set off a new outbreak of tensions between the United States and Pakistan, was made in an unpublicized diplomatic protest in late June to Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani and other top Pakistani officials.

The accusation comes at a particularly delicate time, when the administration is asking Congress to approve $7.5 billion in aid to Pakistan over the next five years, and when Washington is pressing a reluctant Pakistani military to focus its attentions on fighting the Taliban, rather than expanding its nuclear and conventional forces aimed at India.

While American officials say that the weapon in the latest dispute is a conventional one — based on the Harpoon antiship missiles that were sold to Pakistan by the Reagan administration as a defensive weapon in the cold war — the subtext of the argument is growing concern about the speed with which Pakistan is developing new generations of both conventional and nuclear weapons.

“There’s a concerted effort to get these guys to slow down,” one senior administration official said. “Their energies are misdirected.”

At issue is the detection by American intelligence agencies of a suspicious missile test on April 23 — a test never announced by the Pakistanis — that appeared to give the country a new offensive weapon.

American military and intelligence officials say they suspect that Pakistan has modified the Harpoon antiship missiles that the United States sold the country in the 1980s, a move that would be a violation of the Arms Control Export Act. Pakistan has denied the charge, saying it developed the missile itself. The United States has also accused Pakistan of modifying American-made P-3C aircraft for land-attack missions, another violation of United States law that the Obama administration has protested.

Whatever their origin, the missiles would be a significant new entry into Pakistan’s arsenal against India. They would enable Pakistan’s small navy to strike targets on land, complementing the sizable land-based missile arsenal that Pakistan has developed. That, in turn, would be likely to spur another round of an arms race with India that the United States has been trying, unsuccessfully, to halt. “The focus of our concern is that this is a potential unauthorized modification of a maritime antiship defensive capability to an offensive land-attack missile,” said another senior administration official, who also spoke on the condition of anonymity because the matter involves classified information.

“The potential for proliferation and end-use violations are things we watch very closely,” the official added. “When we have concerns, we act aggressively.”

A senior Pakistani official, also speaking on the condition of anonymity because the interchanges with Washington have been both delicate and highly classified, said the American accusation was “incorrect.” The official said that the missile tested was developed by Pakistan, just as it had modified North Korean designs to build a range of land-based missiles that could strike India. He said that Pakistan had taken the unusual step of agreeing to allow American officials to inspect the country’s Harpoon inventory to prove that it had not violated the law, a step that administration officials praised.

Some experts are also skeptical of the American claims. Robert Hewson, editor of Jane’s Air-Launched Weapons, a yearbook and Web-based data service, said the Harpoon missile did not have the necessary range for a land-attack missile, which would lend credibility to Pakistani claims that they are developing their own new missile. Moreover, he said, Pakistan already has more modern land-attack missiles that it developed itself or acquired from China.

“They’re beyond the need to reverse-engineer old U.S. kit,” Mr. Hewson said in a telephone interview. “They’re more sophisticated than that.” Mr. Hewson said the ship-to-shore missile that Pakistan was testing was part of a concerted effort to develop an array of conventional missiles that could be fired from the air, land or sea to address India’s much more formidable conventional missile arsenal.

The dispute highlights the level of mistrust that remains between the United States and a Pakistani military that American officials like to portray as an increasingly reliable partner in the effort to root out the forces of the Taliban and Al Qaeda on Pakistani territory. A central element of the American effort has been to get the military refocused on the internal threat facing the country, rather than on threat the country believes it still faces from India.

Pakistani officials have insisted that they are making that shift. But the evidence continues to point to heavy investments in both nuclear and conventional weapons that experts say have no utility in the battle against insurgents.

Over the years, the United States has provided a total of 165 Harpoon missiles to Pakistan, including 37 of the older-model weapons that were delivered from 1985 to 1988, said Charles Taylor, a spokesman for the Defense Security Cooperation Agency.

The country’s nuclear arsenal is expanding faster than any other nation’s. In May, Pakistan conducted a test firing of its Babur medium-range cruise missile, a weapon that military experts say could potentially be tipped with a nuclear warhead. The test was conducted on May 6, during a visit to Washington by President Asif Ali Zardari, but was not made public by Pakistani officials until three days after the meetings had ended to avoid upsetting the talks. While it may be technically possible to arm the Harpoons with small nuclear weapons, outside experts say it would probably not be necessary.

Before Congress departed for its summer recess, administration officials briefed crucial legislators on the protest to Pakistan. The dispute has the potential to delay or possibly even derail the legislation to provide Pakistan with $7.5 billion in civilian aid over five years; lawmakers are scheduled to vote on the aid package when they return from their recess next month.

The legislation is sponsored by Senators John Kerry of Massachusetts and Richard G. Lugar of Indiana, the top Democrat and Republican on the Foreign Relations Committee, as well as Representative Howard L. Berman, a California Democrat who leads the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressional aides are now reconciling House and Senate versions of the legislation.

Frederick Jones, a spokesman for Mr. Kerry, declined to comment on the details of the dispute citing its classified nature but suggested that the pending multifaceted aid bill would clear Congress “in a few weeks” and would help cooperation between the two countries.

“There have been irritants in the U.S.-Pakistan relationship in the past and there will be in the future,” Mr. Jones said in a statement, noting that the pending legislation would provide President Obama “with new tools to address troubling behavior.”
At least one advantage of being a country without any laaj lajja sharam is that they can indulge in activities that India would find sharamnaak
 
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What is the big deal?? India also has harpoon missiles? If they were altered it was Chinese that probably altered them after stealing the designs to reverse engineer.
 

Pintu

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USA accusing Pakistan for illegal modification of missile

US accuses Pakistan of illegally modifying missiles: report- Hindustan Times

US accuses Pakistan of illegally modifying missiles: report

Agence France-Presse
Washington, August 30, 2009

First Published: 07:56 IST(30/8/2009)
Last Updated: 08:03 IST(30/8/2009

The US government has accused Pakistan of illegally modifying US-made antiship missiles to make them capable of striking land targets and thus creating a new threat for India, The New York Times reported late on Saturday.

Citing unnamed senior administration and congressional officials, the newspaper said the accusation was made in an unpublicized diplomatic protest delivered in late June to Pakistani Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani.

At the center of the row were Harpoon antiship missiles that were sold to Pakistan by the administration of former US president Ronald Reagan as a defensive weapon during the Cold War in the 1980s, the report said.

US military and intelligence officials say they suspect that Pakistan has modified the missiles in a manner that would be a violation of the Arms Control Export Act, the paper said.

Pakistan has denied the charge, saying it developed the missile itself. But according to the report, US intelligence agencies detected on April 23 a suspicious missile test that appeared to indicate that Pakistan had a new offensive weapon.
The missile would be a significant new entry into Pakistan's arsenal against India, The Times said. It would enable Pakistan's navy to strike targets on land, complementing the sizable land-based missile arsenal that Pakistan has developed.

That, in turn, would be likely to spur another round of an arms race between the nuclear-armed rivals that the United States has been trying to halt, the paper noted.

"The potential for proliferation and end-use violations are things we watch very closely," The Times quotes an administration official as saying. "When we have concerns, we act aggressively."

The United States has also accused Pakistan of modifying US-made P-3C aircraft for land-attack missions, another violation of US law that the administration of President Barack Obama has protested, the report said.
 

jaganpjames

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At least one advantage of being a country without any laaj lajja sharam is that they can indulge in activities that India would find sharamnaak
Give a break .. pakistan may have modified.. what is the big deal in it ??

if what is said in the press is correct, kudos to the pakistani scientists who did it.. and we should be worried that our known enemy has another offensive weapon for which we have to deal with.
we should be worried because our scientist's couldnt reverse engineer weapons system even after 50 yrs..
 

bhramos

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who said that we couldn't reverse engineer,
SA-2 = Akash SAM,
Greenpine was modified to fit into our AAD,
we add so many others,
but India has quality control and its a democracy where 10 heads should accept a Project,
but the Pak directly give system to their allies that is allias China to reverse engg. it ,
they learn how to make and just give their final products to its customer painted in green ,
these Knowledge is put in other projects to improve their systems.
what ever is the final product in quality control & they will accept it undoubtedly ,
where as in India 100 questions & 100 modified answers still in the shelf,
eg; Arjun, LCA, Trishul.......
 

kuku

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US can not to do anything about this, in fact they will keep on giving Pakistan military the weapons even if they keep on modifying them they can not afford to loose Pakistanis support in their mission in Afghanistan, and the good part for Pakistan is USA and its allies will be in Afghanistan for another decade.

Thats why the Gov. of India should not listen to USA mediating in Indo-Pak affairs, their only aim is to make sure that the Indo-Pak border remains quiet and as we have seen with their alleged reason to attack Iraq, they are experts in making up stories.

As for the report, a BS reporter who thinks that PN is getting ready to strike land targets should not be trusted with reporting on regional affairs.
 

slugger

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U.S. Accuses Pakistan of Altering Missiles

At least one advantage of being a country without any laaj lajja sharam is that they can indulge in activities that India would find sharamnaak
Give a break .. pakistan may have modified.. what is the big deal in it ??

if what is said in the press is correct, kudos to the pakistani scientists who did it.. and we should be worried that our known enemy has another offensive weapon for which we have to deal with.
we should be worried because our scientist's couldnt reverse engineer weapons system even after 50 yrs..
you appear not to be able to understand the meaning of the term Advantage or for that matter a backhanded compliment - What can I say :rolleyes: - not my fault ;)
 

youngindian

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Washington, August 30, 2009

The US government has accused Pakistan of illegally modifying US-made antiship missiles to make them capable of striking land targets and thus creating a new threat for India, The New York Times reported late on Saturday.

Citing unnamed senior administration and congressional officials, the newspaper said the accusation was made in an unpublicised diplomatic protest delivered in late June to Pakistani Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani.

At the center of the row were Harpoon antiship missiles that were sold to Pakistan by the administration of former US president Ronald Reagan as a defensive weapon during the Cold War in the 1980s, the report said.

US military and intelligence officials say they suspect that Pakistan has modified the missiles in a manner that would be a violation of the Arms Control Export Act, the paper said.

Pakistan has denied the charge, saying it developed the missile itself. But according to the report, US intelligence agencies detected on April 23 a suspicious missile test that appeared to indicate that Pakistan had a new offensive weapon.

The missile would be a significant new entry into Pakistan's arsenal against India, The Times said. It would enable Pakistan's navy to strike targets on land, complementing the sizable land-based missile arsenal that Pakistan has developed.

That, in turn, would be likely to spur another round of an arms race between the nuclear-armed rivals that the United States has been trying to halt, the paper noted.

"The potential for proliferation and end-use violations are things we watch very closely," The Times quotes an administration official as saying. "When we have concerns, we act aggressively."

The United States has also accused Pakistan of modifying US-made P-3C aircraft for land-attack missions, another violation of US law that the administration of President Barack Obama has protested, the report said.

Pak's illegally modified missiles a new threat for India: Report- Hindustan Times
 

I-G

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Pak modified Harpoon to direct against India: US
Chidanand Rajghatta, TNN 30 August 2009, 11:36am IST


WASHINGTON: Pakistan has illegally modified US supplied missiles for potential use against India, Washington has just discovered, in a belated realization that uncontrolled supply of weapons to the dangerously unstable country poses a security threat to the region, including eventually to western forces in Afghanistan.

Judging by a suspicious missile test on April 23 this year, Pakistan has modified the US supplied Harpoon anti-ship missile to strike at land targets, according to American officials, who say the changes are a violation of the US Arms Control Export Act. The test was kept secret not publicly announced by Pakistan.

The US charge, which has set off a new outbreak of tensions between Washington and Islamabad, was made in an unpublicized diplomatic protest in late June to Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani and other top Pakistani officials, the New York Times reported on its website on Saturday. The United States has also accused Pakistan of modifying American-made P-3C aircraft for land-attack missions, another violation of United States law, it said.

Expectedly, Islamabad has denied it fiddled with the Harpoon, and claimed it developed the missile itself. But Pakistan, it is famously said, does not even have the capability to make a tow-truck, let alone a missile. Its inventory is largely made of knock-offs of Chinese and North Korean missiles, and it now appears to have pilfered an American design to no great surprise.

What is surprising though is the timing of the leak in the US media, which appears aimed at questioning, if not torpedoing, efforts by sections of the Congress and the Obama administration to urgently supply even more economic and military aid to Pakistan, ostensibly to help in its war against extremists.

Critics of the five-year, $ 7.5 billion US aid package to Pakistan, which Congress is scheduled to take up next month, say Washington is bankrolling a basket case that has been selective and dishonest in its fight against extremist elements that it nurtured in the first place. Even US government reports have suggested Pakistan is using American arms to bulk up for a confrontation with India, even as many extremists remain state guests.

There is a strong demand in Washington for certifiable benchmarks before Congress signs off on the package, including scaling down its confrontationist posture against India, which the Pakistan military, long used to uninhibited expenditure, is resisting.
In the latest case, the Harpoon was originally sold to Pakistan as a defensive anti-ship missile, but it has been converted into weapon to strike targets on land. The NYT quoted American officials as saying that while the weapon in the latest dispute is a conventional one, the "subtext of the argument is growing concern about the speed with which Pakistan is developing new generations of both conventional and nuclear weapons."

In fact, the country's nuclear arsenal is said to be expanding faster than any other nation's, and it is making heavy investments in both nuclear and conventional weapons that experts say have no utility in the battle against insurgents. In other words, the build-up is still directed against India. "There's a concerted effort to get these guys (Pakistanis) to slow down," an unnamed senior administration official told the paper. "Their energies are misdirected."

However, at least one expert has contested the reading of the US officials on the Harpoon issue, saying Pakistan could not have modified the older-generation missiles (which were supplied during the Reagan era), which did not have the range for a land-attack. Pakistan, the expert said, already has more modern land-attack missiles that it developed itself or acquired from China. In an effort to clear the air, Islamabad is said to have taken the unusual step of inviting US officials to examine its Harpoon inventory.

The remarkable aspect of the whole episode is Pakistan's willingness to spend billions of dollars on weapons when the international consensus is that it faces no threat from India, particularly at a time it is reduced to begging for foreign aid to rescue the country from collapse. Even its long-standing allies China and Saudi Arabia have mostly turned their backs on Pakistan, leaving Washington and London to save it.

But the US and the so-called Friends of Democratic Pakistan (FoDP) appear to be holding Islamabad to a higher standard this time, insisting on knowing where and how it is going to spend aid money, before loosening the purse-strings. The NYT story appears to be part of the plan to seek greater accountability.

Pakistani officials returned empty-handed from a recent FoDP meeting in Turkey, bitterly complaining about countries not meeting the $ 5.7 billion commitment they had made to Islamabad at a previous meeting in Japan. Another FoDP meeting is scheduled to be held in New York on September 23, by which time even the US Congress is expected to demand that Pakistan redirect its energies on meeting the internal threat from extremism, rather than prepare to confront India.

Pak modified Harpoon to direct against India: US - US - World - NEWS - The Times of India
 
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Harpoon range is less than Babur so what's the big deal? Chinese probably modified it after pakistan gave the designs. All weapons/aid given to fight war on terror to pakistan are going to be used against India is USA suprised??? or was that the intention?? last I checked Taliban did not have a navy.
 
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INDIANBULL

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^^ Yea harpoon's range is not that much but why not to go with a cheap alternative i mean 165Harpoons is not a small number, if few ten of those can be mated with tactical nukes it will definitly boost pakistani nuke arsenal and yea with conventionl warheads of various types it can be used tactically also. Actualy why should pakistan produce more babars if they have to destroy targets which are within the range of harpoon, i think you got my point i.e. it will spare more babars for different roles.

I think we always try to ignore Pakistani weapons development, they have got babars with more range and we are still struggling to test fire Nirbhay.
 
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pakistan cannot minitarize nukes so this is highly unlikely, also this is a low flying missile so i don't see how it can fly over mountains??
 
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pakistan has techinical support for their chines masters.......
before the war on terror is over Chinese will have the designs for most of the bread and butter weapons of USA/NATO.

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/US_...ng_in_Pakistan-Afghanistan_coalition_999.html


http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Babur_missile

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/200861402751.asp


what good will these Harpoons be for Taiwan when China knows them inside out???
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...sell-harpoon-missiles-to-taiwan_10089476.html
 
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INDIANBULL

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pakistan cannot minitarize nukes so this is highly unlikely, also this is a low flying missile so i don't see how it can fly over mountains??
Ohhhhhhh LF thats some risky assumption, why cannt they make 100-200kg nuke i think it is not impossible and yeah as Saya says the game changes when China comes into the scene.
 

Ratus Ratus

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Oh please.
This is already posted elsewhere and has the ORIGIAL New York Times article.
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/na...ses-pakistan-altering-missiles.html#post61220

Now this might be in the wrong slot, but at least the NYT article is better written and balanced that the Indian jingle jangle material posted.

The whole article bounced about the following:
At issue is the detection by American intelligence agencies of a suspicious missile test on April 23

NO proof provided that a harpoon missile has actually been modified, just a test of an unknown missile. Speculation by all parties.

Add to above the following:
Some experts are also skeptical of the American claims. Robert Hewson, editor of Jane’sAir-Launched Weapons, a yearbook and Web-based data service, said the Harpoon missile did not have the necessary range for a land-attack missile, which would lend credibility to Pakistani claims that they are developing their own new missile. Moreover, he said, Pakistan already has more modern land-attack missiles that it developed itself or acquired from China.

“They’re beyond the need to reverse-engineer old U.S. kit,” Mr. Hewson said in a telephone interview. “They’re more sophisticated than that.” Mr. Hewson said the ship-to-shore missile that Pakistan was testing was part of a concerted effort to develop an array of conventional missiles that could be fired from the air, land or sea to address India’s much more formidable conventional missile arsenal.


I will take Robert Hewson’s comments above any unsubstantiated journalistic piece which carried no names or valid proof of the reportings.

Also you don’t do the following “Pakistan had taken the unusual step of agreeing to allow American officials to inspect the country’s Harpoon inventory to prove that it had not violated the law” if you have done something stupid.

But heck keep hopping about.
As I said before the media is happy providing local entertainment. You have been entertained.
 
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INDIANBULL

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LF have a look at the report carefully what it says:
In fact, the country's nuclear arsenal is said to be expanding faster than any other nation's, and it is making heavy investments in both nuclear and conventional weapons that experts say have no utility in the battle against insurgents. In other words, the build-up is still directed against India
 
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Ohhhhhhh LF thats some risky assumption, why cannt they make 100-200kg nuke i think it is not impossible and yeah as Saya says the game changes when China comes into the scene.
they can make it but miniturazing and weaponization is difficult ,not that it won't happen in the future especially with Chinese assistance, the of course Iran a nd North korea will have the same.
 
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yes Bull it is directed only against India and we have tied our own hands with US nuke deal which has delieverd nothing so far, we can catch up in a hurry to China with the FBR's but we need to abandon the US nuclear deal it has become a thorn in the side.
 

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chines and pakistani are playing tag team against us.......... we need to be very careful..... north korea and iran will be their cronies........

now it appears that pakistan is giving all access to chines to their american weapons systems.
 

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