There corrected it for you.I stand by it, Pakistan Occupied Kashmir/Baluchistan is a disputed territory and any continuing occupation of it, can be dealt with how we wish to deal with it.
However with that said, my contention with India remains specific to Kashmir and Kashmir only (Hyderabad, Junagadh, Indian muslims, Dalits etc come later).
I'm less interested in speaking for freedom, democracy and secularism within Pakistan than spouting shite against India and that's where you'll see the bulk of my efforts spent on.
The unfortunate part for Pakistan is that Zia unleashed the Mujahideens and forgot to leash them in, once the call of their God was over.
Like a Tiger which tastes human blood turns a man=eater, these Mujh, having tasted the power of the barrel of a gun, lusted for more blood.
They turned towards the world, more so justifying the War on Terror of Bush as a War on Islam. It found a resonant chord amongst the Pakistanis including personnel entrusted to run the Govt and the ISI. Initially, it was a good bargaining chip, but soon it became a Frankenstein and turned on their own mentors!
Therefore, it is an experiment which has turned sour and indeed terrorism is a gift of Pakistan, more particularly of Zia, to the whole world.
Pakistan alone can change the tide.
Notwithstanding, the terrorists do have some strong backers who can bump the Pakistan Govt into obvlivion!
I'm still waiting for you to answer me Btw -to my reply to your post directed at me few pages up... also your argument that it was US's fault is kinda " taking the lame excuse route". who forced you to do it? US asked India to join in w/ troops at the start of the afghan war post 911- they refused. It was your peeps who saw green and sold their soul out back then in the 80's... it's your peeps who now see a different kind of green and have turned terrorist supporters...Was it Zia alone - not that I have any soft corner for him, but it was the Americans who pumped the money into training those jihadis to fight the Soviets. But that's a chapter that most here choose to ignore.
Not speaking as a Pakistani rather citizen of the world (because according to one bloody rude Indian here, members are not equal), you reap as you sow.
It wasn't only Pakistany's heady general's shortsightedness that the mujahideen became what they are today - it was the US as well. If you insist on pulling down Pakistan, I think you should do the same for the US as well for 'favouring' Pakistan despite all this.
I gave mine a few pages ago- you not paying attention to by awesome posts hurts my feelings. It should be mandatory for everyone to read every post I make....!!!! here....^^You being a patriotic american, please put forward your american point of view.
Ray all those things are debatable. Initial justifications were an impending Soviet invasion, then strategic depth, then India on the western front, so on. However I've not argued the merits or demerits of these points, simply how unfair and inhumane a depiction of all of the country's people as terrorists in the fabricated ad picture. I mean what are the goals? Will that end anything related to terrorism? I think it will just increase people-to-people hatred of the common man. I was appealing to DFI not to carry on this unacceptable level of India vs Pakistan rivalry where your target is not government or groups but the simple common man.The unfortunate part for Pakistan is that Zia unleashed the Mujahideens and forgot to leash them in, once the call of their God was over.
Like a Tiger which tastes human blood turns a man=eater, these Mujh, having tasted the power of the barrel of a gun, lusted for more blood.
They turned towards the world, more so justifying the War on Terror of Bush as a War on Islam. It found a resonant chord amongst the Pakistanis including personnel entrusted to run the Govt and the ISI. Initially, it was a good bargaining chip, but soon it became a Frankenstein and turned on their own mentors!
Therefore, it is an experiment which has turned sour and indeed terrorism is a gift of Pakistan, more particularly of Zia, to the whole world.
Pakistan alone can change the tide.
Notwithstanding, the terrorists do have some strong backers who can bump the Pakistan Govt into obvlivion!
Do you know where that hate comes from? What you fail to respect and understand is that the most peaceful country as a majority and its citizens have been show such disrespect by you Pakistanis ( through 4 wars against it, through thousands dying because of terror funded policies of your govt) - that if anyone has the right to feel hateful towards pakistanis it's indians! and not vice versa..."Strategic depth" - that's another debate altogether. Just one quick question, do you not believe that the US also gains from Pakistan having strategic depth versus India having the same?
I am not shifting the course of this ship to how the US is at fault - I agree Pakistan's policy have been less than flattering for many of its people, but as Muse, one of our members at def.pk, likes to bring up "narrative" aspect of it, the "narrative" here has been tunnelled. Read through the posts here, and besides the jingoism and extreme hatred for a country and it's people, what else is there? I don't even know which post you are referring to when it comes to proscribing blame on the US.
The Indian narrative (look at Tiki's recent post), solely puts the blame on Pakistan.
Lastly, pro-invasion or anti-invasion, giving arms to illiterate youth with little to no skills to survive in life otherwise (be it Afghanistan or Bosnia), that's criminal. The US was not justified in training those groups in the 80s. It's a monster that they actively helped create.
Man you still avoid the question and I'm sure Elmo will too. I'm still laughing my ass off that the ones who sit on PDF , you --- who sit and curse at Americans, Jews etc - spread all kinds of conspiracy on those and other bodies - never once stoping to think how their citizenry is being targeted with your and PDF's constant hate speech against them--- Now has you preaching about how not to target Pakistan via a factual Ad? --- is it me or are these guys freaking hilarious in their duplicity!Ray all those things are debatable. Initial justifications were an impending Soviet invasion, then strategic depth, then India on the western front, so on. However I've not argued the merits or demerits of these points, simply how unfair and inhumane a depiction of all of the country's people as terrorists in the fabricated ad picture. I mean what are the goals? Will that end anything related to terrorism? I think it will just increase people-to-people hatred of the common man. I was appealing to DFI not to carry on this unacceptable level of India vs Pakistan rivalry where your target is not government or groups but the simple common man.
Was it Zia alone - not that I have any soft corner for him, but it was the Americans who pumped the money into training those jihadis to fight the Soviets. But that's a chapter that most here choose to ignore.
Not speaking as a Pakistani rather citizen of the world (because according to one bloody rude Indian here, members are not equal), you reap as you sow.
It wasn't only Pakistany's heady general's shortsightedness that the mujahideen became what they are today - it was the US as well. If you insist on pulling down Pakistan, I think you should do the same for the US as well for 'favouring' Pakistan despite all this.
From where did you get your education? Local madrasa? No doubt, you are a byproduct of a curriculum of indoctrination/delusional schizophrenia called - 'pakistan studies' and 'islamiyat' which have brainwashed you to the heights of dementia and fake grandeur. I am sure you yourself do not believe in the crap you have just written, and you know this well.
Well the simple fact is that - if India would have been such anti-minority and Hindus such brutes surpassing muslims in brutality then - No minority would have stayed in India and moved to the 'fort of islam' the 'land of the pure' failed state of pakistan in 1947, unlike the case with pakistan. In today's scenario, if Hindus were such a marauding horde as u guys of delusional pakistan, then Indian muslims would have been running to pakistan for refuge not pakistanis dieing to come to India - do I need to tell you about Adnan samis, Lucknow Nawab, Altaf Hussain and many others including lakhs of Hindu refugees et al. Your blabbering only shows the lie you have been told and further you want the world to believe that bigots such as pakistan terrorist/awam are sane and saints for peace. But who is buying this lod of crap except bashful islamic pakistanis?
Do you know where that hate comes from? What you fail to respect and understand is that the most peaceful country as a majority and its citizens have been show such disrespect by you Pakistanis ( through 4 wars against it, through thousands dying because of terror funded policies of your govt) - that if anyone has the right to feel hateful towards pakistanis it's indians! and not vice versa...
You guys claim that thousands of your citizenry have died because of the terror and you point fingers at the US for it. So I ask you -How do you guys feel about Americans? Love or hate- go to your forums and it reeks of hate, day in an day out- even against Jews who have NOT battled you so as to speak. Whats freaking hilarious is that you as moderator have always allowed it--- so if once again I ask with what " audacity " do you even think of of " narrative " preaching here really?
Man you still avoid the question and I'm sure Elmo will too. I'm still laughing my ass off that the ones who sit on PDF , you --- who sit and curse at Americans, Jews etc - spread all kinds of conspiracy on those and other bodies - never once stooping to think how their citizenry is being targeted with your and PDF's constant hate speech against them--- Now has you preaching about how not to target Pakistan via a factual Ad? --- is it me or are these guys freaking hilarious in their duplicity!
I gave mine a few pages ago- you not paying attention to by awesome posts hurts my feelings. It should be mandatory for everyone to read every post I make....!!!! here....
Uff - I didn't know you had been vying my attention for this long. I do have my hands full on def.pk with moderating duties.I'm still waiting for you to answer me Btw -to my reply to your post directed at me few pages up... also your argument that it was US's fault is kinda " taking the lame excuse route". who forced you to do it? US asked India to join in w/ troops at the start of the afghan war post 911- they refused. It was your peeps who saw green and sold their soul out back then in the 80's... it's your peeps who now see a different kind of green and have turned terrorist supporters...
You are known to spread canards and drawing fallacious and contrived conclusion just to present yourself as an Oracle.Man you still avoid the question and I'm sure Elmo will too. I'm still laughing my ass off that the ones who sit on PDF , you --- who sit and curse at Americans, Jews etc - spread all kinds of conspiracy on those and other bodies - never once stoping to think how their citizenry is being targeted with your and PDF's constant hate speech against them--- Now has you preaching about how not to target Pakistan via a factual Ad? --- is it me or are these guys freaking hilarious in their duplicity!
Liked it for the sheer class and 'civility' in that retort.You are known to spread canards and drawing fallacious and contrived conclusion just to present yourself as an Oracle.
If one is expected to abandon the right to think and instead be a parrot spouting a one liner (read view/ policy) for every conceivable issue, then one would be a parrot regurgitating like a cow the one liner taught like Long John Silver's parrot - Yo Ho and a bottle of Rum.
You maybe of the variety of homo sapiens who transform into a parrot with a regimented indoctrinated agenda to sell, but sadly for people of your comprehension and knowledge of life, I have no such baggage or Cross to bear, and instead have the good fortune to be capable of independent and free thinking. Hence, my comments on any forum would be as per the merit of the issue and not prompted by any preconceived agenda to push on the world!
Further, you seem to have a delusion that using of unparliamentary words or being personal indicates some sort of a win win smartness. Please disabuse yourself of this notion. It only indicates your deficiency in vocabulary.
If anyone is a joke around here, I daresay, you win hands down!!
Do inculcate some class and do have a civilised tongue in your head.
uncivilized pakistan, which lost the respect, gained in 14.Aug,1947. World has lot of expectation from this state when came into 1947. Now 65 yrs later world thinks of you(pak) no better than Somalia,even somalian don't beg.Self loving argument, civilized world (India) which lost its respect from the first day 15th August.






