Pakistan's naval buildup is quite concerning.

Rajaraja Chola

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Union budget allocation for defence pensions is Rs. 1.33 lakh crore (almost $15 billion). This is bigger than Pakistan's entire defence budget. In 2015 the defence pensions were 54k crore. But after OROP it has almost trebled in 5 years. It is unsustainable and many former army officers have agreed with this too. (One such article ). Imagine how much it will increase as years go by. We are sitting on a time bomb.

If taxpayer money is put to good use then we will have modern military. Historically Indian Navy has received less funding among the three and this has forced it to embrace indigenous products. Same way budget constraints have forced entire paki military to get more bang for buck. You can check pakistan ordnance factory website. They have only one plant but make a lot of products (even MP5 on license). Few years ago Indian Army vice chief had said this publically (Link).

DRDO, OFB, PSU & now OROP are hurdles for defence modernization.
So let's reduce or even cancel the pensions? I am sorry but this is an moronic thought process. A soldiers gives away his best years in the military. No govt should moan paying pension to its soldiers. All this talk of pension being unproductive etc etc is bad.
 

Brood Father

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So let's reduce or even cancel the pensions? I am sorry but this is an moronic thought process. A soldiers gives away his best years in the military. No govt should moan paying pension to its soldiers. All this talk of pension being unproductive etc etc is bad.
Agreed , IMO armed forces should now explore possibility to raise funds as expecting steep increase in defence budget is not looking feasible in near future.
 

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Agreed , IMO armed forces should now explore possibility to raise funds as expecting steep increase in defence budget is not looking feasible in near future.
Most of the defence budget is eaten by DPSU and civilians and there is steep increase on it every year,more than every thing else. So it's better to do restructuring or to pay them from outside the defence budget.
 

Rajaraja Chola

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Agreed , IMO armed forces should now explore possibility to raise funds as expecting steep increase in defence budget is not looking feasible in near future.
We are not PA. It's not the job of the armed forces to raise money. Our armed forces shouldn't be involved in fancy and shady businesses controlling any sector of the economy.

What they can do is adopt pvt indigenous armaments. Indirectly they give lots of imperative to R&D, manufacturing, jobs and exports. Rupee wise products will also be cheap initially. US defence budget was around 700B last year. Their capital budget is around 138B including space force thingy. Their exports is 55B. Roughly they plough back 30% to US economy.

Our capital budget is puny. But what if actually 20% of our budget is put back into Indian economy. That's what they should concentrate on. It's not the job of army to raise money. Infact I am even against selling of defence land unless it's requested for some infra projects.
 

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Satellite pictures shows, shipyard expansion at karachi port for housing the new chinese Type-039 submarines
 

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If we read through this list the proposed hardware will make Pakistan a serious threat

And if they are going for a ship based anti ship ballistic missile which will be hypersonic in its terminal phase then the 6 larger ships they will be inducting will be destroyers

The biggest threat would be that this is only a partial reveal expect alot of secret development

I think also mentioned is a hypersonic Cruise missile
LMAO only thing these inbreds can do is to paint a Chinese missile in shitty green colour such is their capability.
 

Rajaraja Chola

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Surprisingly this thread is quiet. I guess posters are wasting time talking politics on a defence thread.

PN has signed a deal to get 10 Sea Kings from Qatar navy, whether for spares or extra ones is unknown at the moment.

Pakistan has signed atleast 13 new frigates and 8 new subs at the moment. It's looking at 25 modern boats at the moment while Indian ship building has slowed down that our IN is smaller than ROK or Japan navy.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Surprisingly this thread is quiet. I guess posters are wasting time talking politics on a defence thread.

PN has signed a deal to get 10 Sea Kings from Qatar navy, whether for spares or extra ones is unknown at the moment.

Pakistan has signed atleast 13 new frigates and 8 new subs at the moment. It's looking at 25 modern boats at the moment while Indian ship building has slowed down that our IN is smaller than ROK or Japan navy.
The question is are these acquisitions a threat or not for a blue water navy like ours. We operate A&N commands, Lakshadweep semi-command and also perhaps an outpost at Agalagea. All are strategic posts that a country like Pakshitstan is never going to command.
Also we have to see when some formidable assets like the second SSBN, second aircraft carrier, longer range SLBMs, better C4I capabilities are kicking in. We are certainly behind in the submarine game - SSKs or SSNs. Also, P8i, predator, MH 60R platforms integration and other possible network centric warfare capabilities programs - where are they all at?
Japanese Navy is very formidable with their AEGIS destroyers and "helicopter" carriers (which can be converted into aircraft carriers in quick time). And Japan and Korea both have excellent ship building capabilities and are developed nations. They can quickly advance to blue water navies.
It is pretty frustrating that we dont have a very strategic naval program with the Japanese and Koreans and just are relying on the Americans. Let's see where this strategy is headed. Clearly interoperability is the major guide for all our future naval assets and it is more and more clear that IN will have American technology as the platform of choice. While this creates a dependency it also means the Pakis and Chinis cannot challenge IN in IO.
 

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Surprisingly this thread is quiet. I guess posters are wasting time talking politics on a defence thread.

PN has signed a deal to get 10 Sea Kings from Qatar navy, whether for spares or extra ones is unknown at the moment.

Pakistan has signed atleast 13 new frigates and 8 new subs at the moment. It's looking at 25 modern boats at the moment while Indian ship building has slowed down that our IN is smaller than ROK or Japan navy.
Well Indian navy is also having solid buildup and everything is going according to plans. Not sure how long porkis will import ships funded by Chinese lol do they even have fuel to manage such fleet.
 

Abhay Rajput 02

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The question is are these acquisitions a threat or not for a blue water navy like ours. We operate A&N commands, Lakshadweep semi-command and also perhaps an outpost at Agalagea. All are strategic posts that a country like Pakshitstan is never going to command.
Also we have to see when some formidable assets like the second SSBN, second aircraft carrier, longer range SLBMs, better C4I capabilities are kicking in. We are certainly behind in the submarine game - SSKs or SSNs. Also, P8i, predator, MH 60R platforms integration and other possible network centric warfare capabilities programs - where are they all at?
Japanese Navy is very formidable with their AEGIS destroyers and "helicopter" carriers (which can be converted into aircraft carriers in quick time). And Japan and Korea both have excellent ship building capabilities and are developed nations. They can quickly advance to blue water navies.
It is pretty frustrating that we dont have a very strategic naval program with the Japanese and Koreans and just are relying on the Americans. Let's see where this strategy is headed. Clearly interoperability is the major guide for all our future naval assets and it is more and more clear that IN will have American technology as the platform of choice. While this creates a dependency it also means the Pakis and Chinis cannot challenge IN in IO.
Don't underestimate Pakistanis. They have better submarines than us even better than our recently commissioned scorpene class with better torpedoes. I know for a fact our ins Kalvari carry old torpedoes with small range, our submarines don't even have AIP. Our p8 is good but at the same time quite downgraded from us p8. There submarines can easily get to our shores without surfacing even once and p8 will be of no help other than sonobuoys and hope to get lucky. Mh60r will be big help. 4 frigate from China with good anti ship missiles. 4 corvettes from turkey which will carry good European weapons . 8 new submarines with aip better than our submarines. In conclusion there frigates will be as good as our own frigate barring p17a class. And there 4 new corvettes and submarines better than ours. They are also getting mpa aircraft.. remember that in 2018 Pakistan has tested babur missile with 500km range from a ship. They have tested the same missile with submarines too. They also have Harpoon missile which we recently bought from USA at the cost of 85 million dollars and I bet we will not get more than 8-10 missile with 1-3 training missiles. Whenever we are close in achieving complete military superiority , Pakistan pushback with better systems than us. What you are witnessing in there naval buildup is the same thing which happen with Pakistani f16 and aim120 missiles and that was in 2008. Only after rafale and 12 years later we achieve complete superiority which will stay until they acquire typhoon or Chinese j20 5-6 years from now. Its quite astonishing that Pakistan with its tiny budget can achieve this much , I mean for crying out loud our capital budget is almost 18 billion dollars this year.
 

Abhay Rajput 02

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Well Indian navy is also having solid buildup and everything is going according to plans. Not sure how long porkis will import ships funded by Chinese lol do they even have fuel to manage such fleet.
Yes but there submarine capability is better than ours . There submarines comes with aip and better torpedoes. They are also upgrading antiship missiles which will match our Brahmos er range of 450km.
 

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Don't underestimate Pakistanis. They have better submarines than us even better than our recently commissioned scorpene class with better torpedoes. I know for a fact our ins Kalvari carry old torpedoes with small range, our submarines don't even have AIP. Our p8 is good but at the same time quite downgraded from us p8. There submarines can easily get to our shores without surfacing even once and p8 will be of no help other than sonobuoys and hope to get lucky. Mh60r will be big help. 4 frigate from China with good anti ship missiles. 4 corvettes from turkey which will carry good European weapons . 8 new submarines with aip better than our submarines. In conclusion there frigates will be as good as our own frigate barring p17a class. And there 4 new corvettes and submarines better than ours. They are also getting mpa aircraft.. remember that in 2018 Pakistan has tested babur missile with 500km range from a ship. They have tested the same missile with submarines too. They also have Harpoon missile which we recently bought from USA at the cost of 85 million dollars and I bet we will not get more than 8-10 missile with 1-3 training missiles. Whenever we are close in achieving complete military superiority , Pakistan pushback with better systems than us. What you are witnessing in there naval buildup is the same thing which happen with Pakistani f16 and aim120 missiles and that was in 2008. Only after rafale and 12 years later we achieve complete superiority which will stay until they acquire typhoon or Chinese j20 5-6 years from now. Its quite astonishing that Pakistan with its tiny budget can achieve this much , I mean for crying out loud our capital budget is almost 18 billion dollars this year.
Lol half knowledge is very dangerous scorpene are soon going to get AIP and varunastra and are much better then noisy stirling AIP Chinese submarine. Our p8i are on par with NATO standards after signing BECA ,We too have brahmos coastal batteries go cry some where else lol.
 

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The question is are these acquisitions a threat or not for a blue water navy like ours. We operate A&N commands, Lakshadweep semi-command and also perhaps an outpost at Agalagea. All are strategic posts that a country like Pakshitstan is never going to command.
Also we have to see when some formidable assets like the second SSBN, second aircraft carrier, longer range SLBMs, better C4I capabilities are kicking in. We are certainly behind in the submarine game - SSKs or SSNs. Also, P8i, predator, MH 60R platforms integration and other possible network centric warfare capabilities programs - where are they all at?
Japanese Navy is very formidable with their AEGIS destroyers and "helicopter" carriers (which can be converted into aircraft carriers in quick time). And Japan and Korea both have excellent ship building capabilities and are developed nations. They can quickly advance to blue water navies.
It is pretty frustrating that we dont have a very strategic naval program with the Japanese and Koreans and just are relying on the Americans. Let's see where this strategy is headed. Clearly interoperability is the major guide for all our future naval assets and it is more and more clear that IN will have American technology as the platform of choice. While this creates a dependency it also means the Pakis and Chinis cannot challenge IN in IO.
They are blue water navies
 

Abhay Rajput 02

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Lol half knowledge is very dangerous scorpene are soon going to get AIP and varunastra and are much better then noisy stirling AIP Chinese submarine. Our p8i are on par with NATO standards after signing BECA ,We too have brahmos coastal batteries go cry some where else lol.
Yes please tell me what soon means to you - 1 year or 3 year or 5 years or a decade. Varunastra is not equipped on any submarine as of now. They have 3 submarines from France with aip . Yes Chinese Aip is no match but they still have aip while ours don't. I am not talking about coastal batteries genius but surface launched and submarine launched missile. And even then there ones have more range than our Brahmos er .
 

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