One thing dude your this intrerview is very old,second till 2015 PAFs groceries list is below:DETAILS OF PAKISTAN AIRFORCE MORDENIZATION PLAN BELOW:
Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Chief of Staff Tanveer Mehmud Ahmad gave an interview to AFM and was published in the September 2008 issue.
-By 2015, PAF would comprise 240 JF-17, 60 F-16's, 40 FC-20's (PAF version of J-10), 50 F-7PG's [for a total of 390 combat aircraft, versus 335 in 2008], along with 4 SAAB Erieye, 4 ZDK-03 (PAF version of Y-8), 4 IL-78 Midas. In 2015 the PAF will remain at its current strength of 15 Squadrons.
The current order status comprised 150 JF-17's, 32 F-16's (variant unspecified), 4 Erieye's, and 4 IL-78.
The Block 52 F-16's will be based at PAF Shahbaz to replace Mirage air defense aircraft.
-The Peshawar based 26 & 16 Squadrons will be the first to convert from A-5 to JF-17 in 2009. Delivery of JF-17 had started and once the assembly facility had been completed at AMF, the induction pace will pick-up to eventually allow delivery of 25-30 aircraft per year to achieve the final numbers by 2015 [this makes no sense, with a 30/year production rate only yielding about 150 aircraft by 2015, not the stated 240]. The 150 JF-17's are expected to equip 7 or 8 squadrons.
-The FC-20 order would be confirmed in 2009. The current J-10 technology was not up to PAF requirements, and PAF hoped to include western equipment in the J-10. This would create a different version than the PLAAF J-10, which would be known as FC-20 in PAF service. The FC-20 would not be required to have conformal fuel tanks, since it had sufficient internal fuel capacity as well as AAR by Il-78 Midas tankers. The FC-20 requirement was 2 squadrons of 36-40 single and dual seater aircraft.
-The IL-78 Midas tankers would provide aerial refueling for all PAF fighter aircraft excepttf the US manufactured F-16s. The F-16s can only refuel with a boom system, and the Midas will be equipped with a probe and drogue underwing pods system. First Midas delivery will commence early 2009. PAF is holding out hope that a KC-135 could be acquired from the US in the near future.
-While the Erieye's will datalink the F-16's, they will not be able to do so with the Mirage fleet. The first Erieye will be delivered in 2009, followed by the remainder by 2011. The Chinese origin fighter aircraft will have AEW&C support from the planned acquisition of 4 ZDK-03 (Chinese Y-8 AWACS). The ZDK-03 contract was close to be being finalised for the required 4 aircraft.
-The PAF is acquiring 2 Squadrons of the Italian Falco UAV with coversion taking place for operations from PAF Mushaf and PAF Peshawar. Eventually, the PAF plans to field 5-6 UAV Sqn's.
Also on the PAF Midas
The pakistani midas is a modified air crago version "not an aircraft built as a refueller from scratch". these are 20 yr old airframes bought from surplus ukraininan stock which were then convertyed for air to air refuelling by ukrainain techincians in the ukraine.
@ SSG -These are capable aircraft nevertheless but they are 20+yrs old. they were soviet airforce planes that were transferred to ukraine and then transferred to the PAF i.e they are third hand airframes.You guys should really start checking how much you pay for such aircraft.
my 1000th post
Nobody in PAKISTAN believes 1 PAKISTANI =10 INDIAN soldiers so please dont see too much indian media.pakistan beleives their 1 soldier equals 10 indian soldiers. apply the same logic.
so, their 1 JF-17 equals 10 indian SU- 30MKI's.
simple.
chill mate. it is only for fun.Nobody in PAKISTAN believes 1 PAKISTANI =10 INDIAN soldiers so please dont see too much indian media.
www.outlookindia.com | The Guns Of AugustSome of the writing about the Indo-Pakistan war of September 1965 borders on mythology. It is no surprise that generations of Pakistanis continue to believe that India was the aggressor and that one Pakistani soldier was equal to 10 Indian soldiers.
Su-30MKI with the help of A-50 AWACS and the KH-31 or K-100 AWACS Killer can find it any where its flying with out intruding into enemy's airspace.sayareakd - 12:46 PM 26-12-2009
where you will fly the tanker in the event of war ??? it will be huge target for IAF
again you are comparing your military strength to Indian military strength. this thread is not about the comparison of general military strength of two nations. stick to the topic of Ilyushin-78MP Mid-Air Fuel Tanker.
Goes both ways,SAAB and sino-indus AWACS will hunt em down with you even knowing.:sporty55:Su-30MKI with the help of A-50 AWACS and the KH-31 or K-100 AWACS Killer can find it any where its flying with out intruding into enemy's airspace.
Viper this list is very impressive and does the planners at PAF credit.One thing dude your this intrerview is very old,second till 2015 PAFs groceries list is below:
250-300=JF17s with western avionics and AIESA radar contenders are as i told Vixen from UK,GRIFFOs AIESA or the one used By the french on TYPHOON.
F16s ,MLU,52 block=100 OR ABOVE,, 36 ARE PURCHASED AND ADDITIONAL 18 BE be purchased (NOTE=Im talking about present order,MLU=will be an advanced version equal to Block 52 and these major upgrades will be conducted by TAI of Turkey,just like belgiums and other advanced countries have advanced there jets).
Out of 150 Mirages Almost 50 or 60 which were heavily upgraded by SAGEM and griffo of FRANCE with ROSE programmes will remain active as they have good airframes and are entensively upgraded.
50 or more J7Ps wih BVR and griffos radar and other western upgrades will remain as they were bought in 1998 when Pakistan was under sanction.
Upto 50 JF17 will be made in KAMRA as ethe facility is being expanded for such programmes or developments.
About FC20 it will surely be upgraded from J10B chinas most advanced fighter of 4.5tth generation which was destined to give F16 E block 60 a competition.
About its induction in PAF my friends its a HAPPY NEWS :twizt: during the inaguaration ceremony of JF17 in KAMRA Pakistans defence minister talked about buying FC20 with full TOT and he said that they(CHINESE)were ready to give us the FC 20 with TOT and there were talks reguarding its purchase that means (WHEN YOU GUYS GO FOR UR 126 JETS WE ARE GONNA BUY FC 20 WITH TOT).
About the JOINTLY DEVELOPED SINO-INDUS AWAC sir its initial order is of 4 which may rise to 8 AWACS that im sure off.
About the ilyusin Sir after the USSR broke out of the tiny republic most (military)
industrilizes zones went to Ukraine for example Ukrainians were building T80 russian tanks when they decieded to sell them to PAKISTAN russian came between so they (ukranians) had to sell Pakistan T80UD which had major modifications of T84ud or yatagan for example the turret,battle management system,engine networking system ETC.
Thats absolutlely true sir,Viper this list is very impressive and does the planners at PAF credit.
However some questions do remain on this wish list. Foremost is cash. China may be willing to finance a large part of your defence purchase but Turkey and other Western Eurpoean countries are going to insist on Hard Cash. This is going to the biggest of your worries. For the near term foreseeable future this is not going to be solved.
Second let us be very clear that you cannot just get up and integrate different electronics and avionics into any aircraft. If and when Pakistan gets an AESA radar from a Western companies, integrating it into JF 17 will require Chinese help as they are the designers and manufacturers of this aircraft. No European country is going to risk their cutting edge technology to fall into the hands of the Chinese.
Also when we talk about TOT please note that for a fighter aircraft there are hundreds of prcision components. I am not sure of the industrial base in Pakistan to support this kind of endeavour. Let me also clarfiy that even India does not have all the necessary infrastructure and we have to depend upon imports from a variety of sources. For small but crucial things like bearings, hydraulics, Electromechanical actuators the source will still remain China.
When I write this , I speak from experience having been involved in these issues for quite some time and I am also aware of the global sources of these components.
My advice to you and all other friends that reading these pronouncements in the papers and internet is one thing, actually seeing it happen is totally different.
there is a basic diffrence between IAF Midas's and PAF MIDAS's ours is MKIzed its built specfic for India this is just general but still it is a Massive Capability boost for the PAF
The IAF has a fleet of 94 Antonov-An32's (of 104 in service for various uses) each with a payload of upto 6.7 metric tons and a range of upto 1,200 km, and a fleet of 17 IL-76MD, 6 IL-76MKI each with a payload of 95,000 lbs and a range of about 3,100 miles. In addition, six IL-78 mid-air refuellers of the MARS squadron as a shot in the arm in 2003, and a proposal tabled in parliament to buy 6 more aerial refuellers at a cost of USD 1 billion- likely the EADS Airbus A-330 multi-role tanker transport (there's your 'convertible'). What on Gaia's great cunny should we feel maladroit at the lack of a 'convertible' tanker/transporter refueller option for?even PAF Midas have Tanker / Transport option , it can be converted which and when in need but IAF Midas dont have that option.
There is no way in ROT'S HELL that the PAF is going to get 250-300 JF-17's by 2015. I GUARANTEE you of that. if you're still around by 2015- or I'm still posting on this board, the winner will post the other a cheque of $50,000. Start saving!One thing dude your this intrerview is very old,second till 2015 PAFs groceries list is below:
250-300=JF17s with western avionics and AIESA radar contenders are as i told Vixen from UK,GRIFFOs AIESA or the one used By the french on TYPHOON.
F16s ,MLU,52 block=100 OR ABOVE,, 36 ARE PURCHASED AND ADDITIONAL 18 BE be purchased (NOTE=Im talking about present order,MLU=will be an advanced version equal to Block 52 and these major upgrades will be conducted by TAI of Turkey,just like belgiums and other advanced countries have advanced there jets).
Out of 150 Mirages Almost 50 or 60 which were heavily upgraded by SAGEM and griffo of FRANCE with ROSE programmes will remain active as they have good airframes and are entensively upgraded.
50 or more J7Ps wih BVR and griffos radar and other western upgrades will remain as they were bought in 1998 when Pakistan was under sanction.
Upto 50 JF17 will be made in KAMRA as ethe facility is being expanded for such programmes or developments.
About FC20 it will surely be upgraded from J10B chinas most advanced fighter of 4.5tth generation which was destined to give F16 E block 60 a competition.
About its induction in PAF my friends its a HAPPY NEWS :twizt: during the inaguaration ceremony of JF17 in KAMRA Pakistans defence minister talked about buying FC20 with full TOT and he said that they(CHINESE)were ready to give us the FC 20 with TOT and there were talks reguarding its purchase that means (WHEN YOU GUYS GO FOR UR 126 JETS WE ARE GONNA BUY FC 20 WITH TOT).
About the JOINTLY DEVELOPED SINO-INDUS AWAC sir its initial order is of 4 which may rise to 8 AWACS that im sure off.
About the ilyusin Sir after the USSR broke out of the tiny republic most (military)
industrilizes zones went to Ukraine for example Ukrainians were building T80 russian tanks when they decieded to sell them to PAKISTAN russian came between so they (ukranians) had to sell Pakistan T80UD which had major modifications of T84ud or yatagan for example the turret,battle management system,engine networking system ETC.
About Falco UAV dude its not bought from the italians its a joint venture so its MADE IN PAKISTAN like other PAKISTANI UAVS for example UQAB,BORDER EAGLE ETC and also many private defence companies like intergrated dynamics,Sparco etc also make drones and sell them to suth american countries libiya,egypt,uk,USA etc as they are reliable and affordable,so About 2 squardons man these things are not reported in PAK press unlike ur media?So ur equation is no more then A PLAIN OLD GUESS.
About our ILyusin midas refuellers dudes u are also buying them and customising them just like us.your tankers are customised by just with refuelling pods UNLIKE PAKISTANS tankers which are not just customised with new engines refuelling pods but also avionics and the mass lift capabilities :icon_salut:
So you agree the PAF helped china break IPR laws and reverse-engineer the F-16?About the JF 17 perhaps you havent heard that PAF sent a F16 and a team of scientists and f 16 and mirage pilots to china to work on JF17 projects so yes we are the designers also but the material resources were used so IT IS A JOINT VENTURE ITS NOT JUST MONEY? even if it goes for the money issue sir 600 million$$ were invested in this project from PAK GOVT and arount 500 million by the chinese.
Reguarding thetechnical difficulties sir PAC kamra has been building trainers like korakoram and Recon planes like super mushak and not to forgt it has been assembly and rebuilding jets for PAF as it houses its own rebuild and assembly complex
Source: The Open Joint Stock Company «Ilyushin Aviation Complex»Full official name of the Company: The Open Joint Stock Company «Ilyushin Aviation Complex».
Shortened Trademark name of the Company: JSC «IL».
Location and mailing address of the Company:
45 "G" Leningradsky Avenue, Moscow, 125190, Russian Federation.
Phone: +7 (499) 943-81-17; 943-81-21.
Fax: +7 (495) 612-21-32.
E-Mail:
[email protected]
[email protected]
Structure of the JSC «IL»Experimental Design Bureau,
Moscow
Experimental Production facility,
Moscow
The Flight-Test and Final Development and Maintenance Base (LI&DB),
Zhukovsky, Moscow region
Personnel Training Center (TsPK), the Open Joint Stock Company «IL» subsidiary,
Kamenka, Dmitrov district, Moscow region
The Open Joint Stock Company «IL» Representation Office,
Tashkent (Republic of Uzbekistan)
The Open Joint Stock Company «IL» Representation Office,
Voronezh
The Closed-Type Joint Stock Company «IL-Service», the Open Joint Stock Company «IL» affiliate company,
Moscow
Ilyushin Aviation Complex OJSC - Russian Defense IndustryAs of 2006 the airplanes designed and developed by the Open Joint Stock Company «IL» were manufactured by the «Voronezh Aircraft Manufacturing Company» (JSC «VASO»), producing the IL-96-300 and IL-96T aircraft, the «Tashkent Aircraft Production Association n/a V.P.Chkalov» (»TAPOICh»), producing the IL 114 and family of IL 76 aircraft and their modifications, and the «Lukhovitsi Aircraft Production And Test Complex» (FGUP «RSK MIG» LAPIK), producing the IL-103 airplane.
Paf Il-78 r old airframes which had been stored in Ukrane after the breakup of USSR....SO IN SHORT THEY R 2nd HAND...ha haThe IAF has a fleet of 94 Antonov-An32's (of 104 in service for various uses) each with a payload of upto 6.7 metric tons and a range of upto 1,200 km, and a fleet of 17 IL-76MD, 6 IL-76MKI each with a payload of 95,000 lbs and a range of about 3,100 miles. In addition, six IL-78 mid-air refuellers of the MARS squadron as a shot in the arm in 2003, and a proposal tabled in parliament to buy 6 more aerial refuellers at a cost of USD 1 billion- likely the EADS Airbus A-330 multi-role tanker transport (there's your 'convertible'). What on Gaia's great cunny should we feel maladroit at the lack of a 'convertible' tanker/transporter refueller option for?
To put that into perspective, the Chinese Air force has 82 Shaanxi Y-8 (design derivative of the Soviet An-12), 23 Xian Y-7 / Y-7h (based on the Soviet An-24; Y-7H based on the cold-war era An-26) and 14 Il-76MD's. It has 4 Il-78 air-refueller tankers. A comparison of the two will show you that we are at or better than parity.
True, having a mid-air refueller represents a quantum jump in the PAF's long term capabilities. But it is not something we didn't know would happen, or would not have been led to expect. Besides, the Pakistan air force has a long way to go before a decent number of aircraft are fitted with IFRs. As such, in the short term, they represent only an augmentation of their air-lifting capability.
Reports on defensenews and other credible sources also suggest that earlier reports that Cobham plc (the same company that equipped the US KC-10's with hose and drogue systems, so that they became two, dual-use Multi-Point Refueling Systems capable of both flying boom and hose-and-drogue refuelling) were to equip Pakistan's Il-78s with refueling pods were incorrect. Which is why the pods on the Il-78's are still the Soviet-designed UPAZs, and why the refueling receptacle kits on its refuellable aircraft will have to be yet procured from another third party- likely South Afrikan in origin. Ergo, the Pakistani Air Force still has a long way to go before it can equip a decent number of its receiving aircraft with ARP's, demonstrating an air-refuelling capability.
Now, what does the PAF have now that can be refuelled: only a small number of Mirage III/V's fitted with an air-refuelling probe (presumably under 10). Of the 50 ex-Australian air force Mirage III's that the PAF procured in the early 90's, and the 34 others that the PAF took out of cold storage, that underwent the ROSE program (only 78 were later found to be fit for active service), 20 were upgraded to ROSE-II, and even fewer underwent an upgrade designated ROSE-III. The ROSE-I included new HUDs, MFDs, RWRs and HOTAS controls and the Grifo M3 radar, and the ROSE-II these and the DART IR. Details on the ROSE-III are scarce, but I presume they may have included in-flight refuelling probes. If this be the case, then we may assume a limited number, probably in the vicinity of 10, are equipped to handle aerial refuelling.
The PAF is now beginning to equip under 30 of its ROSE-I designates with aerial refuelling probes, but this is expected to take a good couple of years. In the mean time, the aging airframes of the ex-Australian and ex-Armée de l'Air (French AirForce) Mirage III/V's (the latter procured as far back as between 1967 and 1982) and the fact that the overhauls of the ROSE-II engines were for a "four year and 300 hour" "guaranteed life span, the fact that spare parts cannibalized for the Mirage III/V fighters in PAF service, procured in 2004 were from ex-Libyan air force fighters, and the fact that Mirage III/V fighters are designated to be retired out of service by the mid-2010's, means that its advantage vis-a-vis Mirage A-A refuelling will be short lived.
Where else do you think a Ukrainian IL-78 is going to come from? Ukraine doesn't make Ilyushian, they make Antanova. It was from Soviet stocks and refurbished at Antanov with old style D-30 engines. Ukraine doesn't have access to the better PS-90s made in Perm since the Russians don't want them competing with their modernisation package. The Ukrainians can only stick some nav equipment, LCD displays, rengine with Soviet models, and give it a paint job for a plane made in 1989. I doubt the craft has many flight hours since Ukraine air force rarley needs inflight refueling, but rusting on a tarmac for 20 years has its pitfalls. Expect this bird to be noisy and shortlived if you use it much. I really don't see much need for PAF to equip tankers, they won't be able to operate very far from the interior of Pakistan lest they be shot down by R-77. It might be of value if you plan a suprise attack from the sea or littoral air power, but is really just a prestige buy to compete with IAF.About Tankers my friends i would like to know an inependent source of your claims about old tanker.
But no asian defence or global firepower or even wiki.
They might operate over the Arabian sea to support pakistani fighters aiming to strike at India's industrial installations in Gujarat and Maharashtra.pakistan does not have offensive ability to dominate the air space and hence operating in an enemy air space is completely ruled out. on the other hand it does not have the geographic depth too. everyone knows the refuellers have to operate a long way away from the battle space lest they be blown away. if they are only defending their airspace (which is the case), there are many air bases for refuelling.
i wonder what they need it for? ofc i don't deny their right to have, but what for??
If in case of Using refulers in Arabian Sea. they would be having atleast 1 P-3C and 4F-16's escort duty.They might operate over the Arabian sea to support pakistani fighters aiming to strike at India's industrial installations in Gujarat and Maharashtra.
Which is why we have Sukhois stationed at Lonavola :goodstuff:
still does not make sense.They might operate over the Arabian sea to support pakistani fighters aiming to strike at India's industrial installations in Gujarat and Maharashtra.
Which is why we have Sukhois stationed at Lonavola :goodstuff:
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