Pakistan Procuring 300 T-90 Main Battle Tanks from Russia.

shuvo@y2k10

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The point is whether Pakis can afford it. Russia will sell it to anyone who can give them money. The Pakis have shown interest in T-90 from Russia, T-84 oplot from ukraine, MBT 3000 (al-khalid mk2) from china and Atlay mbt from turkey.

From the above lot I see only MBT3000 as a possible choice since chinese can give it as a soft loan to pakis. Other than that others will demand money which pakis don't have. May be turkey can give some of them for free considering their muslim brotherhood.

Hence for the IA it is better to invest in arjun mk2, arjun mk3 and fmbt projects instaed of hankering after t-90ms and t-14 armata from russia in the name of FRCV.
 

LordofLight

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We also have giant desert of Thar in Rajasthan and Kutch in Gujarat.


Russian tanks are notorious for breaking down easily. Infect our own t-90 has faced many reliability issues.


How will we stop Russians from selling t-90 to Pakistan? by buying more t-90 and killing our indigenous option? if that is the case then it is a straightforward blackmail by russians.


Buying defense items from any foreign country is equal to selling your sovereignty. Our indigenous weapons no matter how faulty come with no strings attached. No country has ever win war with imported weapons.
Not that I support foreign weapons, but we have won all our wars with imported weapons. But I agree with rest all that you said.
 

shuvo@y2k10

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That was a time when we were not being able to design and develp our own weapons indegenously. Presently is not that case anymore.
 

garg_bharat

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T90 is largely made in India tank now.
A new tank is not economical.

I think kestrel is going come soon.
 

nongaddarliberal

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Something like the k2 black panther or Desi T 14 should be the goal for future MBT's. But even the Russians aren't keen on their own T 14. It's seen as a white elephant, as it doesn't offer any big leap in capabilities. Of course, protection of the crew is better. But offensive capabilities are the same. What India needs now is numbers, and we need to help our own domestic industry. Our army better not use FMBT as an excuse for Armata.
 

AUSTERLITZ

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I agree Arjun had issues but most of those issues were resolved in Mk2. No system is without issues yet we have habit of overlooking issues of foreign maal. Do people think T-90 is some alien tech with no issue???? it has many many issues some even critical.

Army tops just want reasons for rejecting Indian products. Just look at JVPC, Excalibur, Ghatak, etc. the list is long.
None of the following major issues are resolved in arjun mk2.
DRDO CLGM/LAHAT both have not succeeded trials.T-90 can fire invar with over 5 km range.
T-90MS with smoothbore gun and new svinets ammo will penetrate 750mm at 2km.Arjun with rifled gun and 500 mm apfsds ammo cant penetrate chinese tanks and just sufficient for newer paki tanks.
Arjun frontal turret areas still exposed due to position of imager.
Weight is huge 68 tonnes.Can only operate in rajasthan desert,not in china border or punjab canals.
4 man crew - extra manpower and training needed.
Extra logistics headache as no commonality with t72 fleet and spares require imports from european countries and israel.
Costs double of T-90.

You cant simply wish away these problems.We need to take the lessons of arjun,apply them to FRCV get a better newer tanks minus these defects.
 

Mikesingh

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Pakistan Procuring 300 T-90 Main Battle Tanks and from Russia? Show me the money!

Pantsir costs $13.15 million a pop. A T-90MS $5 million. This doesn't include spares, ammo, training, stocking, maintenance, life cycle costs etc. Add 100% to base cost and that's what the Porks would need to pay for each unit of both.

Then there's the question whether Russia will actually sell them these weapons. Plain and simple answer is NO!! These are the usual Paki wet dreams.
 

brational

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After Balakot, Porkistan is suffering from Bawasir. They are expecting Pantsir is going to cure them. Buy Porki Buy.. :biggrin2:
 

IndianHawk

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After Balakot, Porkistan is suffering from Bawasir. They are expecting Pantsir is going to cure them. Buy Porki Buy.. :biggrin2:
That is the beauty of air strike. It has enormously raised cost of supporting terrorism for Porkys .
Let them bankrupt themselves to protect jihadi camps which we will attack anyway.
They could sell more of their women to Chinese to buy some more shitty Chinese junk.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk
 

Bhadra

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I agree Arjun had issues but most of those issues were resolved in Mk2.
What has been resolved ? Has weight been reduced to 50 tons ? Can you list changes.

No system is without issues yet we have habit of overlooking issues of foreign maal.
With 80% or so imported components and assembly Arjun is totally "Foreign Mal". Interested people shout for arjun to keep their commission live on import of foreign components and parts.

Do people think T-90 is some alien tech with no issue???? it has many many issues some even critical.
India needs tanks to defeat Pakistani tanks. T-90 is will be good for it. Period.

Army tops just want reasons for rejecting Indian products. Just look at JVPC, Excalibur, Ghatak, etc. the list is long.
All of those is "katchada". You are a maker, producer and seller not masters. Sell it to US Army, they buy lots of eqpt from foreign countries. Still better ask Pakistan if they are willing to buy Arjun. Ask China ??
Arjun tank at 7.6 million per piece....
Tum Indian Forces ke thekedar nahin ho. Indian Army has suffered enough because of your mal...
 
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Bhadra

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We also have giant desert of Thar in Rajasthan and Kutch in Gujarat.
How giant is it ?
It is giant on ground or it is giant in your mind?
Indira Gandhi canal runs parallel to the international border down upto area South of Barmer. It is a huge water body and serves dual purpose of irrigation and as a defense line.
The canal is 10-20 km inside from the border and irrigates vast tract of land astride, particularly land towards border as the lie of land is NE to SW. It has turned entire area into semi desert tract and soon will be as good as Punjab.
That on Indian side has shrunk considerably.
On the Pakistani side, there are extensive Canal network in Bahawalpur area down to Hakara depression anf alrge water bodies of Salinity reduction Project South of Rahim Yar Khan.

I do not know where will this 68 tons tank will fit here for mass employment.

Areas South of Barmer will lead one into Sindh. No one has any interest there.

Military equipment is made for a terrain and not for you guys to move it in your hallucinating minds and maps.
 

Bhadra

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SO THAT ARJUN FIRST HAS TO CROSS OWN AREAS THEN ONLY IT WILL GO INTO PAKISTAN

This tank seems to have been designed and made on basic philosophy and assumptions that :

# Indian Tanks will never be made to cross international border as there will never be a conventional war between India and Pakistan.

# If Pakistani tanks cross International border then Arjuns will be good pill boxes to defeat Pakistani tanks.
# There being no space for maneuver warfare, tanks will be primarily used to support Infantry operations and a 68 ton tank for that is good enough to take on missile hits.

# Importing parts and component is more paying than making those. Better commissions.
 
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Adrian Corvus

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see my point is, we are buying lot of things from Russia ranging from infantry rifle to choppers to AD missiles worth multi billion dollars and yet ruskies are arming our enemy
Well... we have not heard any conformation about the T-90s or Pantsirs from the Ruskies. It could only be propaganda of puke-istan. Those Pukies wants the world to know they cannot be dumped in the sidelines.
 

Shiv sagar

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Well... we have not heard any conformation about the T-90s or Pantsirs from the Ruskies. It could only be propaganda of puke-istan. Those Pukies wants the world to know they cannot be dumped in the sidelines.
I too Think so. India gives orders of billions of dollars worth defense contract to Russia, How much Napakis can offer? If Russians gives anything near strategically and technologically advanced weapon to Napakis, US of A will score a massive advantage over Them in selling defense equipment to us. Russians are not fools to allow that, apart from that Russia will not gain any strategical advantage by helping napakis. Helping napakis is not in the interest of Russians neither politically nor economically.
 

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