Pakistan enters contract with Turkey to manufacture Attack Helicopters T-129

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,790
Likes
12,608
Country flag
Two of Pakistan's #T129 ATAK gunships are now in production line of #TAI. There is a good probability that American sanctions on Turkey will not influence the deliveries of #T129 to Pakistan. All 30 units like to deliver completely by 2022.
 

nongaddarliberal

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
1,873
Likes
5,669
Country flag
Two of Pakistan's #T129 ATAK gunships are now in production line of #TAI. There is a good probability that American sanctions on Turkey will not influence the deliveries of #T129 to Pakistan. All 30 units like to deliver completely by 2022.
Pakis have maintained a numerical edge in attack helicopters vis a vis India. If only LCH entered production already. 40 Cobras + 30 T129's. Don't know when we're planning in inducting 112 LCH
 

vampyrbladez

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
5,645
Likes
13,536
Country flag
Pakis have maintained a numerical edge in attack helicopters vis a vis India. If only LCH entered production already. 40 Cobras + 30 T129's. Don't know when we're planning in inducting 112 LCH
We have 22 + 11 + 8 AH64E Attack Helicopters incoming.

The LCH is undergoing weapon trials before FOC AFAIK.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ging-the-arming-of-indias-rudra-choppers.html

LSP of 15 LCH (10 IAF and 5 IA) has been approved by the DAC.

https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=191834

70mm Rocket Pods for the first 15 have been procured from Thales till DRDO makes it's own version.

https://www.rotorandwing.com/2019/0...m-rocket-launchers-indian-attack-helicopters/

MoU signed between MBDA and BDL for Mistral missiles for Rudra and LCH. This means that the missile are confirmed for the LCH.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.econ...n-india-with-bdl/amp_articleshow/71184202.cms

HELINA is undergoing testing until 2020 for user trials IIRC.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...elina-test-fired/amp_articleshow/67900023.cms
 
Last edited:

nongaddarliberal

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
1,873
Likes
5,669
Country flag
We have 22 + 11 + 8 AH64E Attack Helicopters incoming.

The LCH is undergoing weapon trials before FOC AFAIK.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ging-the-arming-of-indias-rudra-choppers.html

LSP of 15 LCH (10 IAF and 5 IA) has been approved by the DAC.

https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=191834

70mm Rocket Pods for the first 15 have been procured from Thales till DRDO makes it's own version.

https://www.rotorandwing.com/2019/0...m-rocket-launchers-indian-attack-helicopters/

MoU signed between MBDA and BDL for Mistral missiles for Rudra and LCH. This means that the missile are confirmed for the LCH.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.econ...n-india-with-bdl/amp_articleshow/71184202.cms

HELINA is undergoing testing until 2020 for user trials IIRC.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...elina-test-fired/amp_articleshow/67900023.cms
I was in 9th standard when I first came to know about LCH, and the whole time it was just around the corner, just about to come soon etc etc. I'm already 2 years into my job now and getting cynical about it. This rate of modernization and induction is criminally slow. The first 22 apaches will fully be inducted only by 2020. God knows when the remaining 11+8 will be inducted. I guess my rant is more than about LCH and about our overall defence procurement, especially for indigenous weapons.
 

vampyrbladez

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
5,645
Likes
13,536
Country flag
I was in 9th standard when I first came to know about LCH, and the whole time it was just around the corner, just about to come soon etc etc. I'm already 2 years into my job now and getting cynical about it. This rate of modernization and induction is criminally slow. The first 22 apaches will fully be inducted only by 2020. God knows when the remaining 11+8 will be inducted. I guess my rant is more than about LCH and about our overall defence procurement, especially for indigenous weapons.
US procurements are rapid provided you have money and are in their good books.

LCH is in the last stage as far as testing and trials are to be concerned. The approach of this government has been highly encouraging in this regard.
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,790
Likes
12,608
Country flag
The rumors of blockade of engines for Pakistan's T129 ATAK are false. However, Pakistan has reportedly updated its demands about combat systems of Gunships. Therefore, some delays from given schadule are very much expected.
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,790
Likes
12,608
Country flag
Turkish Aerospace "T-129 ATAK Faz-2 (Phase-2)" Multirole Combat Helicopter successfully completed its first flight. New Phase-2 helicopters equipped with Electronic Warfare Systems .Turkish Army will receive 21 ATAK Faz-2 helicopters. #T129#ATAK Video Credit: kanalssb
 

Vishwamitra

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
78
Likes
145
T-129 is a threat not because of turkey but because of its European origin. most of people here dont know that T-129 is turkey's color paint job to Italian helicopter, even its engine is from some other European country.

turkeys every flagship defense project is cheap copy of original projects of Europe or South Korea.
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,790
Likes
12,608
Country flag
Reminder: Pakistan's ATAK will be a modernized according to PA requirements.
 

suny6611

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
Messages
160
Likes
75
Country flag
has the IMF controlled finance ministry agreed to pay for these ?
 

Rajaraja Chola

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
318
Likes
638
Country flag
I was in 9th standard when I first came to know about LCH, and the whole time it was just around the corner, just about to come soon etc etc. I'm already 2 years into my job now and getting cynical about it. This rate of modernization and induction is criminally slow. The first 22 apaches will fully be inducted only by 2020. God knows when the remaining 11+8 will be inducted. I guess my rant is more than about LCH and about our overall defence procurement, especially for indigenous weapons.
I was in my university when LCH came to chennai for sea trials and it flew literally over my head. Was at PDF those days and I immediately recognised those helis. And that was 7 years back.

However the budgetary constraints has been a major problem in every development program in recent years. Its not fair to only blame HAL/ADA on this. They have given a good product under respectable budget.
 

Rajaraja Chola

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
318
Likes
638
Country flag
Engine is from America, so it is useless against India. Turkey’s aero engine industry is a joke.
Why will it refuse to fly if it intelligently knows if its going to fight India? Pakistan unlike India has less red tape. Though their generals are corrupt to the core, they take their share and get weapons physically on the ground. I believe they will plan for sanction scenario and will stock components if an war is about to erupt.
 

Rajaraja Chola

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
318
Likes
638
Country flag
We have 22 + 11 + 8 AH64E Attack Helicopters incoming.

The LCH is undergoing weapon trials before FOC AFAIK.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ging-the-arming-of-indias-rudra-choppers.html

LSP of 15 LCH (10 IAF and 5 IA) has been approved by the DAC.

https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=191834

70mm Rocket Pods for the first 15 have been procured from Thales till DRDO makes it's own version.

https://www.rotorandwing.com/2019/0...m-rocket-launchers-indian-attack-helicopters/

MoU signed between MBDA and BDL for Mistral missiles for Rudra and LCH. This means that the missile are confirmed for the LCH.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.econ...n-india-with-bdl/amp_articleshow/71184202.cms

HELINA is undergoing testing until 2020 for user trials IIRC.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...elina-test-fired/amp_articleshow/67900023.cms
IAF is waiting for its anti tank missile tests. It will induct in great numbers when those tests are proved. Only thing I am concerned is, if they will become obselete by the time they are manufactured and inducted.
 

OrientalGamer

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
20
Likes
11
Why will it refuse to fly if it intelligently knows if its going to fight India? Pakistan unlike India has less red tape. Though their generals are corrupt to the core, they take their share and get weapons physically on the ground. I believe they will plan for sanction scenario and will stock components if an war is about to erupt.
T129 only operates in Turkey, not like their f16, they have to ask America.
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,790
Likes
12,608
Country flag
Thanks to the United States, both Islamic Turkey and Pakistan are stuck without tanks and helicopters
Turkey’s major indigenous defence programs such as the Altay tank and the ATAK combat helicopter could face significant delays over denial of engine technology by European firms.

While the Altay tank project is certain to miss a production deadline set for this year as the engine manufacturer, MTU of Germany has remained non-committal on supply after providing just 4 engines.

“If the application for the power pack does not result, the 18-month period for the production cannot start. We had publicly announced 18 months (for start of production). We are waiting for a final application. This application did not currently encounter a positive or negative response; it’s pending,” Turkey’s Defense Industries Directorate(SSM) Chief İsmail Demir told Tukish reporters on January 6.


In the case of the T129 ATAK Helicopter, of which Pakistan has ordered 30 in 2018 for $1.5 billion, the deadline for delivery has been extended by one year as Turkey is preparing an indigenous substitute engine for LHTEC T800-4A made by Light Helicopter Turbine Engine Company (LHTEC); a joint venture between Rolls-Royce and Honeywell. The United States is said to be holding up export permits for the LHTEC T800-4A citing the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) regulatory regime.

The Altay tank, Turkey’s most ambitious land vehicle project to date, is being manufactured by a Turkish-Qatari Joint venture, BMC which has an initial order for 250 tanks. The delay in receiving MTU engines and transmission from RENK was due to objections of technology transfer from Germany where both companies are based.

Turkey has engine substitutes for both Altay tank and ATAK helicopters. In the case of the later it is the TS1400 turboshaft engine whose development began in February 2017 and serial production planned fr 2024. This means a project delay of over 4 years. Can Pakistan wait that long?

The SSM has signed a deal in 2018 with BMC for design, development, prototype production, testing and qualification of the ALTAY Main Battle Tank Power Group consisting of diesel engine with 1,500 horsepower and cross drive transmission. The current status of the project is not known.

Turkey’s defence cooperation projects with European firms are rapidly falling apart ever since it picked the Russian S-400 air defence system over the US-made Patriots. Just last week, France has indicated reluctance to move ahead on the Eurosam Missile Defence System project objecting to Turkey’s operations in Syria.
https://www.defencenews.in/article/...re-stuck-without-tanks-and-helicopters-808789
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,790
Likes
12,608
Country flag
Pakistan extends Turkey’s deadline to deliver T129 helos
ANKARA, Turkey — Pakistan has extended the deadline for Turkish Aerospace Industries to deliver 30 T129 helicopter gunships on order, amid U.S. reluctance to grant Turkey technology export licenses.

With the American move now seriously jeopardizing the sale, the Turkish government has tasked Tusas Engine Industries, TAI’s sister company, with developing an indigenous engine for the T129.

“Pakistan has agreed to give us another year [to resolve the problem]. We hope we will be able to develop our indigenous engine soon to power the T129,” Ismail Demir, the head of Turkey’s top procurement agency, said Jan. 6. “After one year, Pakistan may be satisfied with the level of progress in our engine program, or the U.S. may grant us the export license.”

In 2018, TAI signed a $1.5 billion agreement to sell a batch of 30 T129 helos to Pakistan. However, the company needs to secure U.S. export licenses for any export deal with a third country. TAI produces the 5-ton attack helicopter, which is based on its predecessor, the A129 Mangusta.

The T129 is a twin-engine multirole attack helicopter produced under license from the Italian-British company AgustaWestland. It’s powered by two LHTEC T800-4A turboshaft engines. Each engine can produce 1,014 kilowatts of output power. The T800-4A is an export version of the CTS800 engine. LHTEC, the maker of the engine, is a joint venture between the American firm Honeywell and the British company Rolls-Royce.

A procurement source told Defense News on Jan. 10 that Pakistan is also lobbying the U.S. to support the deal.

But U.S. diplomatic sources in Ankara said it’s unlikely Washington will issue the license given the cold nature of U.S.-Turkish defense procurement ties. The U.S. last year suspended Turkey’s membership in the multinational Joint Strike Fighter program in response to Turkey’s acquisition of the Russian-made S-400 air defense system.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...tends-turkeys-deadline-to-deliver-t129-helos/
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,790
Likes
12,608
Country flag
Singapore Airshow 2020: Turkish Aerospace looks to secure T129 export approvals
Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) is confident that it will soon acquire the necessary approvals from the United States to support the sale of the company's T129 ATAK multirole combat helicopter to Pakistan.

A company spokesperson told Jane's at the Singapore Airshow on 11 February that the required permits could be approved within the next two months given what he said was "increasingly good communication" between the Turkish and US governments.

In July 2018 Turkey confirmed that it had signed an agreement with the government of Pakistan to supply 30 T129 helicopters, which are powered by US-made LHTEC CTS800-4A turboshaft engines, for the Pakistan Army's aviation corps.

The deal, believed to be worth about USD1.5 billion, was touted by the Presidency of the Republic of Turkey Undersecretariat for Defence Industries (SSB) as "the largest single export in the history of the Turkish defence industry".

However, after the contract was signed diplomatic relations between the US and Turkey deteriorated following Ankara's decision to procure the S-400 Triumf air-defence system from Russia. The TAI spokesperson said that diplomatic relations between the US and Turkey are now improving and that the delay in supplying the T129 platforms will soon be resolved.

In addition to Pakistan, the TAI spokesperson said that the company is bidding for a requirement for attack helicopters in the Philippines. In 2017 the Philippine Department of National Defense (DND) said it would procure up to 24 attack helicopters for the Philippine Air Force (PAF) before the end of 2022. The procurement is likely to require loans from suppliers.

In November 2018 the DND confirmed to Jane's that a procurement team set up by the PAF had identified the T129 platform to fulfill its attack helicopter capability demands.
https://www.janes.com/article/94224...rospace-looks-to-secure-t129-export-approvals
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top