Pak can't guarantee against repeat of 26/11 in India: Gilani

[Daredevil]

Times have changed, its not the Pakistan of the 70s we are dealing with here for sending across some planes or bombard some cities. This is a nuclear power we are talking about, a Highly Unstable Nuclear Power with street battles going on in their cities on a daily basis! Attacking Pakistan would be the last thing on my Mind. It would unite them, and an United enemy country is any day hard to take on folks.

Dont simply blame our Governments like the Pakistanis do. When we blame our Government it should be with solid backing. If we start to blame, we should blame all our Governments, except Indira Gandis (even she too was soft in negotiations). No one did anything hard on Pakistan, be it the right wingers, or the leftists or the current folks!

If one goes by recent reports where Pakistani sh!t their pants when Indian Army chief Deepak Kapoor made a statement about taking on Pakistan and China in a two front war, one can conclude that it gave PA a lot of takleef (heartburn). According to cold start doctrine, enough damage of PA, without touching the civilians, can be achieved in 72 hrs without crossing the nuclear threshold. This has created a lot of scare in the ranks of PA and they got the message that India has increased the bar for punishing pakistanis for any future mumbai-like attacks.

 

[ahmedsid]

If one goes by recent reports where Pakistani sh!t their pants when Indian Army chief Deepak Kapoor made a statement about taking on Pakistan and China in a two front war, one can conclude that it gave PA a lot of takleef (heartburn). According to cold start doctrine, enough damage of PA, without touching the civilians, can be achieved in 72 hrs without crossing the nuclear threshold. This has created a lot of scare in the ranks of PA and they got the message that India has increased the bar for punishing pakistanis for any future mumbai-like attacks.

Nuclear Threshold is a term open for any kind of interpretation I feel. As far as Pakistan Army is concerned, for them Civilians dont matter, They wouldnt nuke India if we killed a million of their population, but if we try to decapitate a part of their Army/AF/Navy, they will bloody well use the Nukes I feel. All Countries Have Armies, but a certain Army has a country, and thats Pakistan. Their Army controls the nukes, and that makes it all the more scary!

 

[kuku]

Times have changed, its not the Pakistan of the 70s we are dealing with here for sending across some planes or bombard some cities. This is a nuclear power we are talking about, a Highly Unstable Nuclear Power with street battles going on in their cities on a daily basis! Attacking Pakistan would be the last thing on my Mind. It would unite them, and an United enemy country is any day hard to take on folks.

Dont simply blame our Governments like the Pakistanis do. When we blame our Government it should be with solid backing. If we start to blame, we should blame all our Governments, except Indira Gandis (even she too was soft in negotiations). No one did anything hard on Pakistan, be it the right wingers, or the leftists or the current folks!

Its a nation which cares about its existence, nuclear option is not that easy to press.

We have to take offensive action which increases the cost of any actions by terrorist groups based in Pakistan to a point where they stop the evidence talk and start taking steps to stop these groups operating from their land, this action has to be short of threatening their territorial integrity however one which hurts them economically and psychologically .

Some examples would be offensive patrolling by Indian Navy and Coast Guard, firing on any Pakistani fishing boats that are in neutral waters and near Indian waters with the clear aim of destroying their industry and with complete denial of these actions.

Another step could be to increasing the border troop presence to a point where they are constantly on the threat of offensive action, which will require them to be in a operational state which will cost them money the instability will cause both nations to loose a lot economically, and from current indicators they don't have much money or industry to loose, once they are in a greater debt we could pull back and then increase the pressure again, engaging them in an arms race is always a good option, like the AWACS, nuclear weapons, submarines, their small economy is already bleeding from these expenses.

One thing is for sure as soon as our hostile behavior stops somehow magically there is a terrorist strike or two, it all seems very calculated, we have to raise the stakes to a point where this becomes unsustainable.

 

[Rebelkid]

Its a nation which cares about its existence, nuclear option is not that easy to press.

We have to take offensive action which increases the cost of any actions by terrorist groups based in Pakistan to a point where they stop the evidence talk and start taking steps to stop these groups operating from their land, this action has to be short of threatening their territorial integrity however one which hurts them economically and psychologically .

Some examples would be offensive patrolling by Indian Navy and Coast Guard, firing on any Pakistani fishing boats that are in neutral waters and near Indian waters with the clear aim of destroying their industry and with complete denial of these actions.

Another step could be to increasing the border troop presence to a point where they are constantly on the threat of offensive action, which will require them to be in a operational state which will cost them money the instability will cause both nations to loose a lot economically, and from current indicators they don't have much money or industry to loose, once they are in a greater debt we could pull back and then increase the pressure again, engaging them in an arms race is always a good option, like the AWACS, nuclear weapons, submarines, their small economy is already bleeding from these expenses.

One thing is for sure as soon as our hostile behavior stops somehow magically there is a terrorist strike or two, it all seems very calculated, we have to raise the stakes to a point where this becomes unsustainable.

I agree with everything ...except for the firing on fishing boats part..

 

[ahmedsid]

Its a nation which cares about its existence, nuclear option is not that easy to press.

We have to take offensive action which increases the cost of any actions by terrorist groups based in Pakistan to a point where they stop the evidence talk and start taking steps to stop these groups operating from their land, this action has to be short of threatening their territorial integrity however one which hurts them economically and psychologically .

Some examples would be offensive patrolling by Indian Navy and Coast Guard, firing on any Pakistani fishing boats that are in neutral waters and near Indian waters with the clear aim of destroying their industry and with complete denial of these actions.

Another step could be to increasing the border troop presence to a point where they are constantly on the threat of offensive action, which will require them to be in a operational state which will cost them money the instability will cause both nations to loose a lot economically, and from current indicators they don't have much money or industry to loose, once they are in a greater debt we could pull back and then increase the pressure again, engaging them in an arms race is always a good option, like the AWACS, nuclear weapons, submarines, their small economy is already bleeding from these expenses.

One thing is for sure as soon as our hostile behavior stops somehow magically there is a terrorist strike or two, it all seems very calculated, we have to raise the stakes to a point where this becomes unsustainable.

I kind of agree, but arent we (India) in such a stage that we just cant play cat and mouse with Pakistan? I mean if there is a threat of War always, who would Invest in India???

 

[kuku]

I kind of agree, but arent we (India) in such a stage that we just cant play cat and mouse with Pakistan? I mean if there is a threat of War always, who would Invest in India???

No one will invest in a region with threat of a war, that is why we have to fight a huge, massive, biblical propoganda war, even then investments will be a problem, however its that or the current condition, i find this underlaying anger which the religious *****s are always trying to exploit, that is also a risk.

The tough call is to weigh the risks and take a step.

 

[tarunraju]

I kind of agree, but arent we (India) in such a stage that we just cant play cat and mouse with Pakistan? I mean if there is a threat of War always, who would Invest in India???

When a post-26/11 Indian Economy can clock a 7.9 pc GDP growth rate, I don't see how that will affect investment. The figures don't back that.

On the other hand, investors like to invest in a country which can defend its interests and businesses. Stronger Indian military posture = that.

 

[ahmedsid]

When a post-26/11 Indian Economy can clock a 7.9 pc GDP growth rate, I don't see how that will affect investment. The figures don't back that.

On the other hand, investors like to invest in a country which can defend its interests and businesses. Stronger Indian military posture = that.

Defend against Nuke Strikes against the main metros where the MNCs are based? Aggressive is good, but being aggressive against a rogue nuclear power is not that bright.

We clocked the growth after 26/11 because we didnt go to war and the Home Ministry under Chidambaram are working and then Luck too is on our side as nothing bad has happened in any major city after that.

 

[sunit224]

IMHO a war with pak is not an option. War creats too much strain on the economy of a country. US is not able to finance its was in Afganistan despite having the best arms and technology. They are much more advanced still they find it difficult to achieve their objectives. Having said that I am in not in anyway subscribing to the theory that we should not punish pak for what they are doing. What i believe is we can use different ways to achieve our objectives. for e.g. we can opt for covert ops, fund balochies with arms and money, oppose pak on every international forums, try and stop all economic aid given to them by world bank etc etc.

This should go a long way in hurting pak but by doing this we will make the millitants even stronger in pak. As all the above mentioned options create massive economic strain on pak, there would be illiteracy, unemployment etc - which in turn will result in more terrorists.

Its a two-edged sword India as a nation has to tread very carefully keeping all our option in mind and improving our internal security ASAP to the best standard.

Its not an easy fix but that is what we have inherited since 1947. A destabilized neighbor which wants to bring us down rather than try to grow themselves in order to be bigger than us

 

[LETHALFORCE]

This is a continued policy by all leaders of Pakistan -during times of turmoil stir up something with India or make an anti Indian statement and it will unite the people. This policy has been an obstacle to an improvement in relations and the current thaw, to play the hindu-muslim religious card that brought the creation of Pakistan. But in reality this is the height of hypocrisy to be playing the hindu-muslim divide while bringing in USA(Kafirs) to come and wage war and kill your muslim brothers in Afghanistan.

 

[A chauhan]

That means Gilani has accepted that the Pakistan is directly responsible for 26/11 attacks !!! ???

 

[Daredevil]

Nuclear Threshold is a term open for any kind of interpretation I feel. As far as Pakistan Army is concerned, for them Civilians dont matter, They wouldnt nuke India if we killed a million of their population, but if we try to decapitate a part of their Army/AF/Navy, they will bloody well use the Nukes I feel. All Countries Have Armies, but a certain Army has a country, and thats Pakistan. Their Army controls the nukes, and that makes it all the more scary!

Ahmed,

Take the case of Kargil. Why didn't they use Nukes??.

Its not that easy to press that nuke button for quick and solid military offensive. If one looks at the Pakistani nuclear doctrine, it mentions that red line is occupation of their land or civilian/military assets. IMO, with cold start doctrine we will not cross the red line and yet will be able to punish PA for its deeds.

 

[atleast_a_bronze]

IMHO a war with pak is not an option. War creats too much strain on the economy of a country. US is not able to finance its was in Afganistan despite having the best arms and technology. They are much more advanced still they find it difficult to achieve their objectives. Having said that I am in not in anyway subscribing to the theory that we should not punish pak for what they are doing. What i believe is we can use different ways to achieve our objectives. for e.g. we can opt for covert ops, fund balochies with arms and money, oppose pak on every international forums, try and stop all economic aid given to them by world bank etc etc.

I second that. In other words (rather ZA Bhutto's words), bleed them with a 1000 cuts

This should go a long way in hurting pak but by doing this we will make the millitants even stronger in pak. As all the above mentioned options create massive economic strain on pak, there would be illetracy, unemployment etc - which in turn willr esult in more terrorists.

An economically stronger Pakistan for India will not be the same as South Korea is for North Korea. It would unleash a more lethal proxy war on India, while neutralising/exceeding India's conventional military capability.
Unfortunately, It is in India's interest to have a weak Pakistan.

 

[Agantrope]

This statement remembers me the board outside the parking areas/hotels

"Management is not resposible for any loss incured"

"Parking at your own risk"

In tamil "Campany nirvaagam poruppalla" (ref 1st one)



This simply shows Pakistan is a failed state

 

[ahmedsid]

Ahmed,

Take the case of Kargil. Why didn't they use Nukes??.

Its not that easy to press that nuke button for quick and solid military offensive. If one looks at the Pakistani nuclear doctrine, it mentions that red line is occupation of their land or civilian/military assets. IMO, with cold start doctrine we will not cross the red line and yet will be able to punish PA for its deeds.

Kargil was a situation in which we were taking back our own territory which was captured by Pakistan. That cant be compared to 71 wherein we took Bangladesh out of W Pakistan! Do you think Pakistan would stand by if they had nukes back in the 70s?? I dont think so.

Pressing the Button is easy for a rogue Military Regime, its hard for Political Parties to do that.

In Kargil we didnt harm the Pakistani War Machine, they had their Tanks and Planes Intact to act if we crossed IB. Why didnt we cross IB?? Wasnt the right wing party in power then? Its our intelligence failure which didnt make us realise Pakistan didnt have delivery weapons back then, but now they can Hit us, and Hard if they want to, we got to respect that.

 

[sunit224]

I second that. In other words (rather ZA Bhutto's words), bleed them with a 1000 cuts

An economically stronger Pakistan for India will not be the same as South Korea is for North Korea. It would unleash a more lethal proxy war on India, while neutralising/exceeding India's conventional military capability.
Unfortunately, It is in India's interest to have a weak Pakistan.

What I mean and think with an economic strong pak is below:

1) People will have work and less time to indulge in terrorist activities.
2) Literacy will reduce the number of people falling pray to organization like LeT.
3) I hope they will have more self respect and self esteem and they would not indulge with India centric obession because I believe what they do today is to a little extent because they want to show they are not behind India in anyway.


Frankly I do not think pak can match our economic growth anyway. There are too many factors to economic growth and pak in no way can match us. I hope they can be a little healthy to get rid of India centric obession. probably like canada is to US... but i guess this is more a work of a fiction mind than reality. On the other hand i firmly believe an unstable pak is more dangerous to us because unstability leads to less rationality and jingoistic views which is a very uncomforting thought.

I just wish if peace can prevail. We have had too much of violence anyway.

 

[bengalraider]

Ahmed,

Take the case of Kargil. Why didn't they use Nukes??.

Its not that easy to press that nuke button for quick and solid military offensive. If one looks at the Pakistani nuclear doctrine, it mentions that red line is occupation of their land or civilian/military assets. IMO, with cold start doctrine we will not cross the red line and yet will be able to punish PA for its deeds.

i know i'm not Ahmed but
Pakistan did not use nukes in kargil Because officially Pakistan never fought in kargil ;the official line of the Pakistani government maintains that the Pakistan army was not involved in kargil irrespective of the proof presented by India, any direct conventional military response by the Pakistani military in kargil leave alone nukes would have made Pakistan an international pariah and invited sanctions something Pakistan could never afford.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Using nukes in an India-Pakistan war is something both sides have to think over deeply since we both share the same water supply the Indus river there may not be any winners if radioactive fallout enters the water supply and poisons it for thousands of years killing millions more than the nukes would.

 

[ahmedsid]

Using nukes in an India-Pakistan war is something both sides have to think over deeply since we both share the same water supply the Indus river there may not be any winners if radioactive fallout enters the water supply and poisons it for thousands of years killing millions more than the nukes would.

Again would a rogue regime in boots with terrorists think of that when they capture power when India destroys the Pakistan Army after a 26/11 like attack? I doubt so!

 

[LETHALFORCE]

you are right Ahmed that is why we are in such a dangerous situation, I doubt we would ever use nukes with Pakistan but by Pak being so ready to use they will in a sense force us to use nukes.