P-8I maritime patrol aircraft

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

weird combo of metal + indian music, slightly over the top, pretty cool in a way.

Great that we are going to have a full squadron (18) of these awesome platforms fitted with the latest quipment thanks to COMCASA. Our scientists need to learn/reverse engineer components/algorithms/IP that they have been struggling with in-house, and start indigenizing software related to core detection algorithms and sonar signatures. I wonder if the US is transferring a database of the acoustic signatures of almost all submarines they have tracked (including their own subs) or just the PLA Navy ones. I am sure we already have all the Pottistani subs' signatures. But it would be interesting to track a Russian yassen class, for example, and the US would certainly have those. I wonder if the MQ9B Reaper can interface with P9i for data transfer real time. That can kind of intelligence would mean terror camps in PoK can be taken out by the reapers with surgical strikes only acting as a clean up op. This also gives us the opportunity to build interfaces from our indigenous weapons to these advanced platforms.
Overall our defense capability should grow exponentially. Interesting times for theater commands these days as we shift to tech that is highly interoperable and highly intelligent ( state of the art AI/ML and encryption/decryption algorithms ).
The way it is going, when we become a $10 trillion economy, we can even get into a joint production of B2 spirit stealth bomber. The US could use these in numbers and our engineers can make the production cheaper than the billion dollar per plane price tag.
Porkis and chongs are probably shitting in their pants (even the Russians are probably highly disturbed), as we speak, as India gets plugged into very trustworthy western production systems.

 

[Trololo]

Great that we are going to have a full squadron (18) of these awesome platforms fitted with the latest quipment thanks to COMCASA. Our scientists need to learn/reverse engineer components/algorithms/IP that they have been struggling with in-house, and start indigenizing software related to core detection algorithms and sonar signatures. I wonder if the US is transferring a database of the acoustic signatures of almost all submarines they have tracked (including their own subs) or just the PLA Navy ones. I am sure we already have all the Pottistani subs' signatures. But it would be interesting to track a Russian yassen class, for example, and the US would certainly have those. I wonder if the MQ9B Reaper can interface with P9i for data transfer real time. That can kind of intelligence would mean terror camps in PoK can be taken out by the reapers with surgical strikes only acting as a clean up op. This also gives us the opportunity to build interfaces from our indigenous weapons to these advanced platforms.
Overall our defense capability should grow exponentially. Interesting times for theater commands these days as we shift to tech that is highly interoperable and highly intelligent ( state of the art AI/ML and encryption/decryption algorithms ).
The way it is going, when we become a $10 trillion economy, we can even get into a joint production of B2 spirit stealth bomber. The US could use these in numbers and our engineers can make the production cheaper than the billion dollar per plane price tag.
Porkis and chongs are probably shitting in their pants (even the Russians are probably highly disturbed), as we speak, as India gets plugged into very trustworthy western production systems.

We are not getting B2s ever. Reapers cannot be used for strikes in PoK or across IB since they will be sitting ducks for SAMs. India in all probability will not operate regular bombers but something like a Ghatak UCAV at max.

Intelligence sharing amongst manned and unmanned platforms will happen in India using Indian equipment. I was told long time ago by a retired BEL employee that their Data Link 2 product was being packaged to be tested on the Rustom-2 and a manned platform (didn't say which one). Yes interfaces on top of the P8 can be built for our specific needs. If tomorrow our own maritime patrol drone comes to play that will be used. The same capacity will allow LCH + Rustom manned unmanned teaming.

I'm optimistic about growth of defence products. We should see a lot of progress

The US will most likely not give us signatures of their own subs, or NATO subs. And even Russian. This is because we can use this information to fine tune our own subs. We should expect Chinese and Pakistani sub signatures though. And maybe Iranian.

Its difficult to reverse engineer algorithms and AI based models. At best, our scientists can come up with their own models and algorithms after checking out performance and vast data set of output from the US ones in different scenarios. And plug them into our products.

Neither are Porkis or Chinis shitting themselves. Believing that would be complacency. I will praise Pak for the things it has done for its military. Namely:

1> Used low cost Jihadis under nuclear overhang to inflict tremendous and disproportionate damage to India, both physically, economically, and psychologically.
2> Creating a substantial jihadi-commie-peacenik constituency within India to further its agenda of ruining us.
3> Sided with China to reasonably bolster their fledgling economy and infrastructure ( to what degree this will succeed I don't know.)
4> Is becoming a test facility for Chinese weapons and with good measure. As much as you diss the JF-17, its the best fighter Pak can afford with its budget, and will certainly be a bit of a competitor in the Block-3 package with the PL-15 kind of missiles. Their PAC Kamra has improved its skills quite a bit in the process. And given that its primarily Chinese origin, the only thing it will see is iterative improvement. Their navy uses Chini subs, which are copies of Kilos. Their AIP Agostas are good machines, and now they should rust due to French defence sanctions. Their new VT-4 tanks are better than our ancient T-72s and T-90S models. What I mean overall is that they are getting a lot of bang for their limited buck in their never ending quest of ghazwa-e-hind.
5> They are crystal clear in mindset of Jihad and act relentlessly to kill the Hindu and fuck over his motherland and brutalize their women.

I praise the Chinese because:

1> They are clear on their world domination grand strategy and act accordingly.
2> They wage war using every trick in the book. Anything that can be used as a weapon is a weapon.
3> They know how to beg, borrow, and steal for their own technological progress.
4> They have been successful in lifting millions out of dire poverty.
5> They have been successful in establishing their own global brands like AliBaba, OnePlus, Oppo, Vivo, etc.
6> They have genuinely increased their manufacturing capabilities in quality and quantity.
7> They have managed to develop a decent domestic MIC (albeit of patchy quality here and there. But this will only improve with time.)
8> They are clear that India is a roadblock for them, and have hence invested money and time in acquiring Pakistan as its attack dog against us. Using their huge trade deficit, denying us market access, and supporting Pak terror, they aim to contain us. Pakistan is the most potent attack dog against India. If we want to deal with China in the long term and do so from a position of strength, this attack dog needs to be put to sleep.

In fact, as I sit and drink a hot cup of tea, the Chinese and Pakistanis have probably finalised some internal agreements on how to tackle India. One will launch spectacular terror strikes like the failed Nagrota one and the other will attempt to destabilise the border.

Enough gyaan given for today. Feel free to debate/ brickbat.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

We are not getting B2s ever. Reapers cannot be used for strikes in PoK or across IB since they will be sitting ducks for SAMs. India in all probability will not operate regular bombers but something like a Ghatak UCAV at max.

Intelligence sharing amongst manned and unmanned platforms will happen in India using Indian equipment. I was told long time ago by a retired BEL employee that their Data Link 2 product was being packaged to be tested on the Rustom-2 and a manned platform (didn't say which one). Yes interfaces on top of the P8 can be built for our specific needs. If tomorrow our own maritime patrol drone comes to play that will be used. The same capacity will allow LCH + Rustom manned unmanned teaming.

I'm optimistic about growth of defence products. We should see a lot of progress

The US will most likely not give us signatures of their own subs, or NATO subs. And even Russian. This is because we can use this information to fine tune our own subs. We should expect Chinese and Pakistani sub signatures though. And maybe Iranian.

Its difficult to reverse engineer algorithms and AI based models. At best, our scientists can come up with their own models and algorithms after checking out performance and vast data set of output from the US ones in different scenarios. And plug them into our products.

Neither are Porkis or Chinis shitting themselves. Believing that would be complacency. I will praise Pak for the things it has done for its military. Namely:

1> Used low cost Jihadis under nuclear overhang to inflict tremendous and disproportionate damage to India, both physically, economically, and psychologically.
2> Creating a substantial jihadi-commie-peacenik constituency within India to further its agenda of ruining us.
3> Sided with China to reasonably bolster their fledgling economy and infrastructure ( to what degree this will succeed I don't know.)
4> Is becoming a test facility for Chinese weapons and with good measure. As much as you diss the JF-17, its the best fighter Pak can afford with its budget, and will certainly be a bit of a competitor in the Block-3 package with the PL-15 kind of missiles. Their PAC Kamra has improved its skills quite a bit in the process. And given that its primarily Chinese origin, the only thing it will see is iterative improvement. Their navy uses Chini subs, which are copies of Kilos. Their AIP Agostas are good machines, and now they should rust due to French defence sanctions. Their new VT-4 tanks are better than our ancient T-72s and T-90S models. What I mean overall is that they are getting a lot of bang for their limited buck in their never ending quest of ghazwa-e-hind.
5> They are crystal clear in mindset of Jihad and act relentlessly to kill the Hindu and fuck over his motherland and brutalize their women.

I praise the Chinese because:

1> They are clear on their world domination grand strategy and act accordingly.
2> They wage war using every trick in the book. Anything that can be used as a weapon is a weapon.
3> They know how to beg, borrow, and steal for their own technological progress.
4> They have been successful in lifting millions out of dire poverty.
5> They have been successful in establishing their own global brands like AliBaba, OnePlus, Oppo, Vivo, etc.
6> They have genuinely increased their manufacturing capabilities in quality and quantity.
7> They have managed to develop a decent domestic MIC (albeit of patchy quality here and there. But this will only improve with time.)
8> They are clear that India is a roadblock for them, and have hence invested money and time in acquiring Pakistan as its attack dog against us. Using their huge trade deficit, denying us market access, and supporting Pak terror, they aim to contain us. Pakistan is the most potent attack dog against India. If we want to deal with China in the long term and do so from a position of strength, this attack dog needs to be put to sleep.

In fact, as I sit and drink a hot cup of tea, the Chinese and Pakistanis have probably finalised some internal agreements on how to tackle India. One will launch spectacular terror strikes like the failed Nagrota one and the other will attempt to destabilise the border.

Enough gyaan given for today. Feel free to debate/ brickbat.

There's a lot to pick apart. But here are some Qs about your assertions in first three lines:

1. Never say never. India is the only trustworthy economy capable of absorbing extra large US tech and producing it in sufficient numbers. Depending n how much we progress, who knows we maybe building nuke aircraft carriers on the cheap for the US. While the US has massive tech, what they lack is cheaper and trustworthy manpower to build it. We are the only ones capable of doing so. Right now they are testing the waters with moderate deals like Boeing, Sikorski, Raytheon etc having JVs with Indian companies. The capacity available in a $10 trillion economy cannot be underestimated.

2. SAMs - what SAMs? When the IAF crossed into Pakistan to bomb Balakot, their SAMs did not pick up anything. Why? So there are large holes in their AD systems which will be very expensive for them to plug. We will always have dark areas of their AD zones that we can take advantage of, more so if we seriously establish bases to the north and west of pakshitstan. You are overestimating an impoverished country like Pakodastan's AD capability.

3. You must be kidding if you dont think that Porkis are shitting themselves. "Maathe pe paseena, payar kaamp raha tha". The return of Abhinandan very very quickly shows that the reality is that Pakistanis loathe and fear our arsenal. Also, any entity that is confident in their military capabilities does not have to resort to outright lies in their official PR (things like showing a Palestinian scene as happening in Kashmir, creating trashy fake dossiers etc.) and hide their casualties even to the extent of not retrieving the dead bodies. No professional army ever leaves their dead behind.That is an intense shame to the Pakshitstani nation and completely collapses the credibility of Porki Army. Plus it indicates that PR wins is all they want.

4. You are also overestimating Chinese weapons. Their winglooooooong 2 has been a spectacular failure with countries like Jordan selling them for scrap. Their J20s and J16s run on inferior engines. We have seen no sorties of PLA AF in the pangong tso area, indicating severe underperformance. Their planes dont participate in any neutral airshows to be judged. They still have to resport to buying S400 from Russians, indicating a serious lack of AD capabilities for their level of economy. PLA is another entity that uses PR heavily to mask real capabilities.

5. On Jihadi front, Porkies ended up on FATF because of that and have been made into a bankrupt country where more than 50% of people only eat two times a day. Plus the tens of thousands of casualties including school children, regular attacks and blasts to even this day, no cricket, a psychologically devastated population with no entertainment avenues for release, cities full of crimes and abysmal infrastructure, professionals being killed every day, massive brain drain (including Pork Army Officers' kids) due to insecure environment. You are trying to term a country becoming like Somalia due to their state sponsored terror a success. That is delusional.

6. If CPEC were even remotely working and they sincerely worked to get out of FATF, IMF would have released the remaining moneys but they clearly said that Porkies were screwing everything up and IMF funds wont be possible, which also means zero FDI in Porkistan. Chings 'FDI' is the only thing going for these neanderthals and that comes at a steep price.

At the end of the day real powers like the US, France, Israel, India do not resort to PR to hide their casualties, disown downed platforms, beat the superiority drum every day etc. But both Porkistanis and Chongs do. Further, Chongs and Porkis are allied only among themselves. Even the US does not fight wars without major allies. All evidence and facts on the ground clearly demonstrate that Porks and Chongs are both inferior defense forces with unproven weapons unable to take on real adversaries like Taiwan and India, and have to resort to outright lies masked as PR to secure wins against all these real powers.

 

[Trololo]

There's a lot to pick apart. But here are some Qs about your assertions in first three lines:

1. Never say never. India is the only trustworthy economy capable of absorbing extra large US tech and producing it in sufficient numbers. Depending n how much we progress, who knows we maybe building nuke aircraft carriers on the cheap for the US. While the US has massive tech, what they lack is cheaper and trustworthy manpower to build it. We are the only ones capable of doing so. Right now they are testing the waters with moderate deals like Boeing, Sikorski, Raytheon etc having JVs with Indian companies. The capacity available in a $10 trillion economy cannot be underestimated.

2. SAMs - what SAMs? When the IAF crossed into Pakistan to bomb Balakot, their SAMs did not pick up anything. Why? So there are large holes in their AD systems which will be very expensive for them to plug. We will always have dark areas of their AD zones that we can take advantage of, more so if we seriously establish bases to the north and west of pakshitstan. You are overestimating an impoverished country like Pakodastan's AD capability.

3. You must be kidding if you dont think that Porkis are shitting themselves. "Maathe pe paseena, payar kaamp raha tha". The return of Abhinandan very very quickly shows that the reality is that Pakistanis loathe and fear our arsenal. Also, any entity that is confident in their military capabilities does not have to resort to outright lies in their official PR (things like showing a Palestinian scene as happening in Kashmir, creating trashy fake dossiers etc.) and hide their casualties even to the extent of not retrieving the dead bodies. No professional army ever leaves their dead behind.That is an intense shame to the Pakshitstani nation and completely collapses the credibility of Porki Army. Plus it indicates that PR wins is all they want.

4. You are also overestimating Chinese weapons. Their winglooooooong 2 has been a spectacular failure with countries like Jordan selling them for scrap. Their J20s and J16s run on inferior engines. We have seen no sorties of PLA AF in the pangong tso area, indicating severe underperformance. Their planes dont participate in any neutral airshows to be judged. They still have to resport to buying S400 from Russians, indicating a serious lack of AD capabilities for their level of economy. PLA is another entity that uses PR heavily to mask real capabilities.

5. On Jihadi front, Porkies ended up on FATF because of that and have been made into a bankrupt country where more than 50% of people only eat two times a day. Plus the tens of thousands of casualties including school children, regular attacks and blasts to even this day, no cricket, a psychologically devastated population with no entertainment avenues for release, cities full of crimes and abysmal infrastructure, professionals being killed every day, massive brain drain (including Pork Army Officers' kids) due to insecure environment. You are trying to term a country becoming like Somalia due to their state sponsored terror a success. That is delusional.

6. If CPEC were even remotely working and they sincerely worked to get out of FATF, IMF would have released the remaining moneys but they clearly said that Porkies were screwing everything up and IMF funds wont be possible, which also means zero FDI in Porkistan. Chings 'FDI' is the only thing going for these neanderthals and that comes at a steep price.

At the end of the day real powers like the US, France, Israel, India do not resort to PR to hide their casualties, disown downed platforms, beat the superiority drum every day etc. But both Porkistanis and Chongs do. Further, Chongs and Porkis are allied only among themselves. Even the US does not fight wars without major allies. All evidence and facts on the ground clearly demonstrate that Porks and Chongs are both inferior defense forces with unproven weapons unable to take on real adversaries like Taiwan and India, and have to resort to outright lies masked as PR to secure wins against all these real powers.

1> B-2 is an extremely important strategic asset, to be relevant for a good while now. The tech on the B2 is still quite a few years ahead of where we stand. There is no way we will build B2s or get them. Thats delusional. We may be a democracy but also with a great power potential, and that means a challenger. We will not be allowed to build carriers on the cheap for the USN simply because that would expose the carrier designs, plans, and layouts to us. For aircraft its the engines and electronic components that make all the difference. So even if we make their airframes completely and clone it, we cannot do squat without the engines and avionics.

2> No overestimation. Simply speaking the standard MALE UCAV is slow, lumbering, and bright on radar. They can't fly low and fast like Balakot type ops. And there are enough cheap drone detection radars on the market which are portable, and Pak possibly has a bunch of Chinese ones already. And its not necessary they shoot with a SAM. AA guns dot the LoC and IB. It won't take much to shoot down a MALE drone, simply because the AA gun itself is on a high mountain. But yes it will be possible on few occasions to pull a fast one and shoot a few ATGMS from a MALE drone. But don't expect drone ops deep across LoC until the stealth UCAV comes.

3> Not kidding. You need to understand that Pak wins by not losing. For the Jihadi generals as long as we lose men and they don't lose land they win. And that is also true for their jaahil away. Even if they lose 2x men, they won't get highlighted. The only way this changes is by hitting senior officers and taking Pak territory. Pak does fear a full scale war no doubt. This was reflected in the Abhinandan saga. And that is always under the nuclear shadow. We've called their nuclear bluff, but not managed to convince them that attacking India is pointless. You see in the last couple of weeks I believe we have lost some 14 men. They have changed tactics to sustained low intensity aggression. In other words, in high intensity aggression maybe these 14 troopers would have died in 1 day. But in the new scene they die in 14 days. And that's still a win for Pak until punitive costs are imposed. If Pak were shitting their pants then this would not have happened. They shit a few times, put on diapers, and resume. Their intent is very very very strong. Unless the ghazi mindset is broken by losing territory, they won't learn.

4> Question is not over-estimation. Here is the point: Chinese have developed significant missile capability at least on the BM front. Even if our BMD or other missile defence snuffs out 8/10 missiles, 2 pass through and that's a win. Also the Chinese are making up for lack of quality by quantity. And this has been possibly passed down to Pak. From JF-17 angle even if the RD-93 is shit and fleet availability is low, and the incoming PL-15 is crap, firing the same at long range in a salvo by multiple JF-17s will tie down our attacking aircraft until the BVRs have passed (J&K AMRAAM dodging). That buys them significant time too. Incoming F-16s and Mirages form the strike package and the JF-17s keep defending aircraft engaged. Good thing now is that their F-16s and Mirages will be junk without spares and support. In the same way a huge battery of Chinese towed arty the Pak is getting and also their VT4s aren't all crap that they can't be used in battle. They can, and will cause damage. The VT4 is certainly of better quality than our T72

5> Not delusional at all. Has the FATF sword fallen on the Pak neck? No. Does Pak still get billions in remittances? Yes. Is the average Pakistani out on the street every day crying and protesting that he has no food for his kids, no job for himself, and no medical facility for his family? No. Has CPEC brought some level of work and improvement in pak? Yes. (Lahore metro, BRT system, motorways, etc.). Granted that these are all Chinese assets, but who would have thought that Pakis would have a metro train facility? We know that the Pak economy has gone for a toss is only when the FATF sword falls and it falls under North Korea like sanctions. Pak is not as civilised a Iran that it can hold itself together. Nor it has a tyrant like Kim Jong Un. Once the FATF sword falls and Pakis get kicked out by the millions, and their exports drastically fall, and their people come on the streets, then we will talk. Till then, Pak's banks work (they haven't failed yet), and there is a sizeable middle class in the country. Once that middle class goes into poverty then we can say their economy has failed.

6> Yes correct and that steep price, when they pay, will further accelerate Pak's demise. But they have managed to get IMF bailouts in the past and I won't be surprised if they manage to again unless the FATF sword falls.

7> Pak and China combined have something we don't have: Numbers. Only 36 Rafales will not win us a 2 front war, for example. The quad military alliance hasn't been formalised yet, etc. Combined they won't be able to overrun us, but we will certainly take a severe hit.