P-18/Next Generation Destroyer class (NGD)

swapcv

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Corvettes are smallest ship you can call a warship and not OPV or petrol boats.
Corvette roles are now being diluted out with trends in two opposite directions, one for OPV's and one that almost approaches a frigate in capabilities, in a way our Kamorta's are basically glorified OPV's without their SAM, and lots of FFBNW equipment/weapons. Eg: Damen modular OPV designs, Italian PPA, Stereguschiy/Gremyaschiy/Merkuriy or Project 20380/20381/20386 class corvettes.
 

Bleh

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Corvettes are not blue water components in any fleet. There's just no volume to have enough endurance for lengthy operations.
Thats the reason Kamorta class is more a light frigate than a corvette.
Saryu class has 12000km range, Sachi were supposed to have 10000km... Any corvette built on them would be blue-water.
 

flanker99

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Saryu class has 12000km range, Sachi were supposed to have 10000km... Any corvette built on them would be blue-water.
Both are lightly armed hence can't be called corvettes if they increase armaments range will decrease but i agree that corvettes are blue water components just look at our scs fleet and iirc last year 1 saryu opv was deployed in Arabian sea for over 80 days so that isn't an issue
 

Bhurki

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Saryu class has 12000km range, Sachi were supposed to have 10000km... Any corvette built on them would be blue-water.
Oil tankers can go 1000s of nmi. But they're not blue water (navy), right?

Both are lightly armed hence can't be called corvettes if they increase armaments range will decrease but i agree that corvettes are blue water components just look at our scs fleet and iirc last year 1 saryu opv was deployed in Arabian sea for over 80 days so that isn't an issue
A blue-water navy is a maritime force capable of operating globally, essentially across the deep waters of open oceans.
While definitions of what actually constitutes such a force vary, there is a requirement for the ability to exercise sea control at long range. (in any domain, if i might add, like ASW, ASuW, AAD or multiple)
 
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swapcv

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Saryu class has 12000km range, Sachi were supposed to have 10000km... Any corvette built on them would be blue-water.
Range is one thing, endurance is another, can both classes have enough stores and provisions to sustain their crews for weeks at a time? If not then, no matter how much range the vessel has, it will still be limited in duration of it's mission, having to return to port again and again to reprovision, effectively confining them to brown-water or coastal duties. UNREP is one way to alleviate that, but I doubt OPV's are ever reprovisioned by UNREP ops.
 

flanker99

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Oil tankers can go 1000s of nmi. But they're not blue water (navy), right?



A blue-water navy is a maritime force capable of operating globally, essentially across the deep waters of open oceans.
While definitions of what actually constitutes such a force vary, there is a requirement for the ability to exercise sea control at long range. (in any domain, if i might add, like ASW, ASuW, AAD or multiple)
I was just talking about the vessel ...not in as a whole
 

Bleh

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Range is one thing, endurance is another, can both classes have enough stores and provisions to sustain their crews for weeks at a time?
No. For the last few days of the 12000km voyage, that it's capable of doing, the crew of Saryu class are supposed to eat each other.
That's how it was designed.
 

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars again this is the Project 18 Class Destroyers Thread.
 

johnj

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Saryu class has 12000km range, Sachi were supposed to have 10000km... Any corvette built on them would be blue-water.
how good is their defence and offence capability compared to other blue water war ship. Having a long endurance and sea level means it can travel long distance, oceans, seas etc but not blue water capability for warship which comes under offence/defence cat. Adding long range ssm can do.
 

johnj

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No. For the last few days of the 12000km voyage, that it's capable of doing, the crew of Saryu class are supposed to eat each other.
That's how it was designed.
point noted but it can resupply in ocean and small vessel, less crew and less food. blue water navy can resupply from near supply chain by support ship, helio etc.
 

Bleh

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point noted but it can resupply in ocean and small vessel, less crew and less food. blue water navy can resupply from near supply chain by support ship, helio etc.
Point tabi was trying to make is that, the supply & proof food are very minor considerations, compared to fuel-space etc.

If the ship is capable of making 12000 it is capable of taking enough food for that long voyage. Thinking otherwise it's just extremely retarded logic twisting.

how good is their defence and offence capability compared to other blue water war ship. Having a long endurance and sea level means it can travel long distance, oceans, seas etc but not blue water capability for warship which comes under offence/defence cat. Adding long range ssm can do.
Not great.. it's an offshore patrol vessel mostly built for anti piracy so they have some CIWS & a gun. But in between it has enough space for installation of some amount of torpedo-containers & VLS cannisters.

Nonetheless it can accompany a bluewater flotilla, as a support vessel in such configs (essentially as long range air-defence missile vessel, or minesweeper etc.)

I had made an old post...
Costing less than 1/10th of Kolkata Class she can easily cover whole Arabian sea and Bay of Bengal. Will also boost India's first private sector warship building, debt-ridden Reliance got showcaused in Feb.

Naval-ship_20170726.jpg

Also, what's this part? Can it be replaced by VLS?
IMG_20200506_090016.jpg
 
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Gessler

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People seem to view a 10-13,000 ton ship as some exceedingly rare asset that only two or three countries have. The reality is far different. This is actually going to be the standard for the top-end main surface combatants of a lot of Navies. List of countries that already have Combatants in this 10-13k ton ballpark:

United States
Russia
China
Japan
South Korea

Countries that will have vessels in that ballpark in the near future (confirmed programs):

India
Italy
Germany
Australia
Likely UK as well (Type 83)

So 10k+ ton ships aren't some aberration...they are increasingly the norm.
 

swapcv

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Made a thread on Twitter regarding my 'vision' for NGD, incorporating stuff from previous posts of mine on this thread, plus some new additions.

A Wiki style possible P-18 configuration,

Hull Form : Enlarged P-15B with more flush deck profile.
Dimensions : 170-180m LOA, 18-20m Beam, 6.5-7m draft
Displacement : 12000t (Light Ship), 13000t (Std.), 13500t (Dead)
Propulsion :
Option I : 4xLM2500+G4 in COGAG arrangement,
Option II : 2xMT30+2xLM2500+G4 in COGAG,
Option III : 2xLM2500+G4 or 2xMT30+2xDiesel Gen in CODLAG,
Option IV : 2xMT30+2xTurbine Gen for IEP.

Speed : 30+kts
Range/Endurance : 8000nm @16kts, 45-60 days at sea without replenishment.
Crew : 200-250 with additional Flagship facilities and HADR accomodations.
Decoys and EW Systems :
Kavach or NULKA Decoy launchers,
ELBIT Deseaver MK or AN/SLQ-32(V)7 SEWIP EWS or BEL Ajanta EWS

Sensors, Processing Systems :
DRDO LR-MFR
BEL Revathi CAR
BEL HUMSA-NG Bow Sonar + Possible VDS or TACTAS eg : Thales 2087

Armament :
2xOTO Melara 76mm SRGM or 1 BAE Mk.45 127mm+1 OTO Melara 76mm Sovraponte
(Contingent on Fincantieri buying out OTO Melara's Gun business)
4x8 UVLM for Brahmos/Brahmos Mk.II, Nirbhay LACM, DRDO SMART
8x8 VLS for Barak 8/8-ER SAM,
2-4 AK-630 CIWS or 2 SEARAM + 2 Phalanx or 2 SEARAM + 2 Typhoon WS
2x 533mm Torpedo Tubes with adapters for 324mm torpedos (Varunastra, TAL Shyena or ALWT)
Multiple crew served stations for 7.62mm MG or 12.7mm MG,
Directed Energy Weapons (FFBNW)

Aviation and Miscellaneous facilities :
2 Enclosed Hangars capable of handling MH-60R, HAL Dhruv and HAL LUH
Large Chinook or IMRH capable flightdeck
2 Multi-mission bays capable of hosting RHIB's, Containerized loads and additional payloads.
 

johnj

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Point tabi was trying to make is that, the supply & proof food are very minor considerations, compared to fuel-space etc.

If the ship is capable of making 12000 it is capable of taking enough food for that long voyage. Thinking otherwise it's just extremely retarded logic twisting.



Not great.. it's an offshore patrol vessel mostly built for anti piracy so they have some CIWS & a gun. But in between it has enough space for installation of some amount of torpedo-containers & VLS cannisters.

Nonetheless it can accompany a bluewater flotilla, as a support vessel in such configs (essentially as long range air-defence missile vessel, or minesweeper etc.)

I had made an old post...
yes, it can carry enough food, that why i said food is not a issue.
i said before it can acts like blue water by installing long range ssm[ surface attack missile], of course with in flotilla, and air defence, minesweeper, support not so much, becz for air defence it need powerful radar, fcr, combat systems, etc, minesweeper need specialised vessel[carbon fiber], bottom line i thought about that too, plus submarine hunding need long range sub, less space to carry huge load,
 

Bleh

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yes, it can carry enough food, that why i said food is not a issue.
i said before it can acts like blue water by installing long range ssm[ surface attack missile], of course with in flotilla, and air defence, minesweeper, support not so much, becz for air defence it need powerful radar, fcr, combat systems, etc, minesweeper need specialised vessel[carbon fiber], bottom line i thought about that too, plus submarine hunding need long range sub, less space to carry huge load,
Thoda bhot ku6 to laga hi lenge.. Not same as the OPVs.

Plus a support vessel can rely on the radar, sonar etc. of the main capital ships. Like for example, anti-sub version can carry towed sonars & decoys, RBU-6000, SMART in VLS etc. & become a massive force multiplier (as the capital ships are now free to carry other stuff).
Kamorta has only 5000km range.
 
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