OBOR News & Developments

[Detective Pennington]

Just wondering, why didn't India ever join this project?

 

[Srinivas_K]

Just wondering, why didn't India ever join this project?

See no one wants to sell their country for few billion dollars. Tell me which country benefitted because of OBOR.

 

[Detective Pennington]

See no one wants to sell their country for few billion dollars. Tell me which country benefitted because of OBOR.

I'm not sure, it was a neutral question. I've read that central asian countries are being connected to global trade routes or something.

 

[Srinivas_K]

I'm not sure, it was a neutral question. I've read that central asian countries are being connected to global trade routes or something.

No country wants Chinese to take over their assets.

 

[Detective Pennington]

No country wants Chinese to take over their assets.

what exactly do you mean? You mean like for example in Gwadar, China is owning the city?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Just wondering, why didn't India ever join this project?

OBOR is essentially a Chinese trade route project. Besides the political reasons of not wishing to be a sub of China, India will be stupid to surrender her internal and external markets to PRC.

what exactly do you mean? You mean like for example in Gwadar, China is owning the city?

That is a different case with states like Pak and Sri Lanka. Since Ceylon couldn't payback Chinese debts, it leased Hambantota to China for 99 years. Pak too is burdened with Chinese debt and running out of funds, ironically from expenditure they had to do on OBOR project by taking loans from China and paying Chinese companies for infrastructure.

 

[Detective Pennington]

OBOR is essentially a Chinese trade route project. Besides the political reasons of not wishing to be a sub of China, India will be stupid to surrender her internal and external markets to PRC.

That is a different case with states like Pak and Sri Lanka. Since Ceylon couldn't payback Chinese debts, it leased Hambantota to China for 99 years. Pak too is burdened with Chinese debt and running out of funds, ironically from expenditure they had to do on OBOR project by taking loans from China and paying Chinese companies for infrastructure.

But how is that surrendering internal and external trade markets. That part I don’t understand.

 

[DocK]

But how is that surrendering internal and external trade markets. That part I don’t understand.

I am not exactly an expert and all the points I mention will have already been posted, still my take.

1. China targeted countries it could use for strategic means rather than pure trade. Mostly countries with corrupt and pliable leadership, many times installed with Chinese help.

2. China then presented inflated economic development possibility with its pet projects.

3. With pliable leadership passing the said projects in their country (Maldives parliament is supposed to have read, discussed and passed the FREE TRADE AGREEMENT of 1000 pages in 15 min). China then signs OBOR contracts.

4. As per contracts hyper inflated tenders are granted to Chinese companies with predatory interest rates from Chinese Banks. For Mortgage strategic assets of borrowing country is used. Eg Gwader and Djibouti.

5. Since most of these projects were never viable, actually Vanity projects (Hambantota), or were left incomplete (Namibia), the loan defaulted and China took over or is in the process of taking the strategic assets.

6. Markets- Since many of these countries were poor on infrastructure they already had poor industrialisation. With OBOR also comes FTA with China. The powerhouse of manufacturing with history of Market distortion and monopoly creation. This will destroy any existing or nascent industry present in a country that earlier survived as lack of infrastructure prevented Chinese companies from selling their knock-offs.

With internal industry destroyed Chinese companies will take over natural resources and labour for External Market for Chinese gain.

Hope this answers your question. Also correct me if I am wrong in any part of the post.

 

[Detective Pennington]

I am not exactly an expert and all the points I mention will have already been posted, still my take.

1. China targeted countries it could use for strategic means rather than pure trade. Mostly countries with corrupt and pliable leadership, many times installed with Chinese help.

2. China then presented inflated economic development possibility with its pet projects.

3. With pliable leadership passing the said projects in their country (Maldives parliament is supposed to have read, discussed and passed the FREE TRADE AGREEMENT of 1000 pages in 15 min). China then signs OBOR contracts.

4. As per contracts hyper inflated tenders are granted to Chinese companies with predatory interest rates from Chinese Banks. For Mortgage strategic assets of borrowing country is used. Eg Gwader and Djibouti.

5. Since most of these projects were never viable, actually Vanity projects (Hambantota), or were left incomplete (Namibia), the loan defaulted and China took over or is in the process of taking the strategic assets.

6. Markets- Since many of these countries were poor on infrastructure they already had poor industrialisation. With OBOR also comes FTA with China. The powerhouse of manufacturing with history of Market distortion and monopoly creation. This will destroy any existing or nascent industry present in a country that earlier survived as lack of infrastructure prevented Chinese companies from selling their knock-offs.

With internal industry destroyed Chinese companies will take over natural resources and labour for External Market for Chinese gain.

Hope this answers your question. Also correct me if I am wrong in any part of the post.

ah makes sense, good that India didn't take it on then.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

But how is that surrendering internal and external trade markets. That part I don’t understand.

Indian companies are not in any position (except few major conglomerates) to survive a competition with Chinese ones.

They have far deeper pockets.

 

[Detective Pennington]

Indian companies are not in any position (except few major conglomerates) to survive a competition with Chinese ones.

They have far deeper pockets.

Ah I misread the FTA part. Wouldn't that only harm the super rich (owners of Indian companies) though? For everyone else, if the Chinese companies are better, it creates more employment and higher wages right? Unless everything they are selling is being built in China rather than locally or all labor is Chinese (like in Gwadar).

 

[DocK]

Ah I misread the FTA part. Wouldn't that only harm the super rich (owners of Indian companies) though? For everyone else, if the Chinese companies are better, it creates more employment and higher wages right? Unless everything they are selling is being built in China rather than locally or all labor is Chinese (like in Gwadar).

As far as I know the Chinese market tactics are as follows.
1. Identify a key market.
2. Heavily subsidise production in country (China) if it is exported. Meaning domestic consumption will not get subsidy.
3. Competition can not bear such losses for long and go out of business.
4. Once Monopoly has been established, stop subsidies. Considering restarting closed business to re-enter market has prohibitive costs monopoly gets maintained.

Right now Chinese no longer use Chinese Labour (except Xinjiang like RE-EDUCATION models) as labour costs have increased in China. Instead they use Colonial model of coming to country with their management and supervisory work force and exploiting local labour and resources while making hefty profits.

Yes Big Cats lose but so does the country as except for Lower Labour everything is paid to China.

 

[Detective Pennington]

As far as I know the Chinese market tactics are as follows.
1. Identify a key market.
2. Heavily subsidise production in country (China) if it is exported. Meaning domestic consumption will not get subsidy.
3. Competition can not bear such losses for long and go out of business.
4. Once Monopoly has been established, stop subsidies. Considering restarting closed business to re-enter market has prohibitive costs monopoly gets maintained.

Right now Chinese no longer use Chinese Labour (except Xinjiang like RE-EDUCATION models) as labour costs have increased in China. Instead they use Colonial model of coming to country with their management and supervisory work force and exploiting local labour and resources while making hefty profits.

Yes Big Cats lose but so does the country as except for Lower Labour everything is paid to China.

Damn that's exactly how companies like Walmart and Amazon etc. wipe out local "Mom and Pop" shops in an area, shady shit. I'm surprised no other country in Central Asia or Indian ocean region saw this coming.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Wouldn't that only harm the super rich (owners of Indian companies) though?

No, bigger Indian companies have better services and won't lose market at all due to reputation. All the damage will be beard by small and medium scale industries.
A company like MG has failed even to scratch the reputation or market of Tata and Mahindra in India.

Issue lies with small vendors making daily items. That sector needs a decade more of formalisation to become large scale in India.

For everyone else, if the Chinese companies are better, it creates more employment and higher wages right?

Chinese companies don't create employment. They export manufactured products and bring Chinese engineers in case of civil projects. Wages are even pathetic for their own employees but Chinese products are dirt cheap; what the entire issue is.

 

[Detective Pennington]

No, bigger Indian companies have better services and won't lose market at all due to reputation. All the damage will be beard by small and medium scale industries.
A company like MG has failed even to scratch the reputation or market of Tata and Mahindra in India.

Issue lies with small vendors making daily items. That sector needs a decade more of formalisation to become large scale in India.

Chinese companies don't create employment. They export manufactured products and bring Chinese engineers in case of civil projects. Wages are even pathetic for their own employees but Chinese products are dirt cheap; what the entire issue is.

Makes sense. This is the free trade dilemma everywhere. Because the products are cheaper, the people are a bit happier, even at the cost of their own economy in the long run. This is also probably why China is pro-globalism in the west. Exploit the fact that average American would rather buy a cheaper iphone than provide a job to their fellow man, and justify it by looking down on him as uneducated and unable to get a better job.

 

[no smoking]

As far as I know the Chinese market tactics are as follows.
1. Identify a key market.

No, there is no such thing called "key market" in Chinese trade policy.

2. Heavily subsidise production in country (China) if it is exported. Meaning domestic consumption will not get subsidy.

Wrong. Just like other countries, most of subsidies (except export tax refund) are provided to industries, not market. No matter you produce it for export or domestic market, as long as you are building the particular industry, you will receive subsidies.

4. Once Monopoly has been established, stop subsidies. Considering restarting closed business to re-enter market has prohibitive costs monopoly gets maintained.

Again, you can't subsidize your exportation to certain market only. The majority of Chinese factories have massive scale, they are supplying multiple markets simultaneously. Just think this way: one factory is producing one product for 8 markets. If the gov create different subsidy policy for different market, that means certain department just double or even 4 times of their workload. No gov will do that.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Makes sense. This is the free trade dilemma everywhere. Because the products are cheaper, the people are a bit happier, even at the cost of their own economy in the long run. This is also probably why China is pro-globalism in the west. Exploit the fact that average American would rather buy a cheaper iphone than provide a job to their fellow man, and justify it by looking down on him as uneducated and unable to get a better job.

Free trade dilemma is for those who have achieved certain level of industrialisation. Same China was brutally protectionist at some point of time. Similarly, India is protectionist and free trade promoter in different areas according to interest.

Modern countries are not a mission to turn world into a communist or democratic state. They only want to become more prosperous, powerful and advanced. Religion and values have been losing actual relevance and people too are increasingly becoming consumerist at least in open and secular societies like East & Southeast Asia, Western world, India, Latin America and Central Asia.

 

[DocK]

No, there is no such thing called "key market" in Chinese trade policy.



Wrong. Just like other countries, most of subsidies (except export tax refund) are provided to industries, not market. No matter you produce it for export or domestic market, as long as you are building the particular industry, you will receive subsidies.



Again, you can't subsidize your exportation to certain market only. The majority of Chinese factories have massive scale, they are supplying multiple markets simultaneously. Just think this way: one factory is producing one product for 8 markets. If the gov create different subsidy policy for different market, that means certain department just double or even 4 times of their workload. No gov will do that.

Like I said earlier, I am no expert and thus happy to be corrected.

1 My mistake. I said market when I meant Product or sector. Be it Plastics, toys, tiles, electronic parts etc.

2 Right again, they subsidise the industry to a limit that they end up Global monopoly. Not just Indian market or US market, they screw everyone equally.

3 Re entry into market was meant for the industries that went under due to Chinese tactics.

Thank you for correcting my mistake.

 

[rockdog]

OBOR is essentially a Chinese trade route project. Besides the political reasons of not wishing to be a sub of China, India will be stupid to surrender her internal and external markets to PRC.

That is a different case with states like Pak and Sri Lanka. Since Ceylon couldn't payback Chinese debts, it leased Hambantota to China for 99 years. Pak too is burdened with Chinese debt and running out of funds, ironically from expenditure they had to do on OBOR project by taking loans from China and paying Chinese companies for infrastructure.

It's all about political.

CPEC is part of OBOR, and some projects of CPEC are in J&K region, India and Pakistan still have dispute on the area, so Indian won't accept the OBOR.

Same reason why China didn't give green light to lable Army of Mohammed as terror group in UN, since it's in J&K, and Pakistan didn't say OK.

For RCEP, it's obvious lead by China, and India see himself as equal player, so won't accept it.

 

[lcafanboy]

Nepal plane tragedy: Pokhara airport was inaugurated two weeks ago, was part of China's Belt & Road Initiative - Times of India

South Asia News: At least 68 people were confirmed dead on Sunday when a Yeti Airlines plane with 72 on board crashed in Nepal, police said, in the Himalayan country's

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

China Maal....
Instead of Belt and Road they should change the name to Debt And Rule intiative, DRI...