Not battle-ready before 2027, admits Indian Army

[Ray]

Well, if tibeten and uighurs cannot get consolidation among their own race, how can they joint fighting?

Rebellion? Yes, they tried. Tibet cannot last longer than one month. And Uighurs could not even resist the attack from a local han war lord. I don't know what kind of rebellion can scare the CCP supporting by the majority of domestic and overseas chinese on this matter.

Maybe you would say when CCP step down, Tibet and Uighurs can take this chance. I can sure you whoever the successor is, their first mission will be re-take Tiebt and XinJiang. Because they need to prove their validity.






Yes, as any diplomatic game, you have to re-confirm your stance in every opportunity even though you realy don't care.





Oh, no, I just worry I may not be able to see India geting ready in your life time. That would be a big disappointment to both of us.

A country that is afraid of cults like Falun Gong is afraid of its shadow!

Consolidation is taking place and there is always that danger for China. They go hammer and tongs to defame His Holiness and placate Pakistan lest the Uighurs in Pakistan decide to land up back in Xinjiang and indoctrinate the Uighurs into greater fundamentalism. Therefore, there is the real fear of religion taking hold of the population to rebel en mass. Unlike the Chinese, who have always been partial to having money rather than principle or religion (it never had religion per se, but cults like Confuciusism et and as Deng said – the colour of the cat does not matter so long as it catches mice; that much for Chinese principles and adherence to Mao’s dream of a Communist China), the Uighurs and Tibetan have great faith in their religion. The Chinese are a wise people. They realise religion can create huge problems and so they do not like cults or religion since that become another focal point to challenge their authority as enshrined by the Chinese concept of Legalism. A good plan it might be, but in today’s world difficult to contain since all are getting educated and they understand their rights.

Further, one must never forget that the US is hardly amenable to lose its primacy in the world. They have infused capitalism into China. Capitalism leads to greed as per the Communist philosophy and so some extent it is correct. It brings in corruption and it leads to economic disparity amongst the people; more so, the developing people. It leads to a rural and urban divide. It is a universal factor. Yet, for China and Russia the effect is greater. These are countries that ensured equitable distribution of wealth and ensured that the basic needs of their citizens were met by the State. Now, when poor people have to struggle to make ends meet and when they see the growing disparity between the rich and the poor, there is discontent and that is dangerous. That is what the US wants to happen in China – a total change in regime! While the world may think that the Chinese are a wily race, one would be wrong to underestimate the US. They brought the USSR down. They are encouraging China to be in the arms race and that costs money and is at the expense of the people – the poor people! They are also getting the hardworking Chinese into a laid back wasteful way - McDonalds, jeans, trademark clothes and all that. China may have invested into the US economy, but it is a Catch 22. Dump the dollar for some other currency and China suffers in the bargain – its economy take the rap!

Why is the Uighur Mother Rubiyat in the US? Ever gave it a thought? She could have gone to Timbuctoo! Muslims are there. Why the US?

One could go on, but then geopolitics is too vast a subject for discussions in a post!


Ah yes! The blue funk over His Holiness’ visit to Tawang is a diplomatic gain! However, India was unimpressed as we are not of many tricks of the CCP and China.

As far as India not being ready in my lifetime, China would not achieve her dream in her lifetime, forget about yours!

China is on the way to dissolution like the USSR, thanks to the US.

Watch this space!

 

[Agantrope]

As for ATGM's, was there something wrong with what was bought by the armed forces of Tanzania, Botswana and Morocco. The Nag is "competitively priced" and will provide a potent counterweight to the Russian Konkours and the European Milan, which can and will be manufactured in excess under license by BDL from both. And what about this: Indian Army to Purchase 4100 Milan 2T Anti Tank Guided Missiles in USD 120 million Deal.

And this: India Clears Anti-Tank Nag Missile for Production - Defense News

And this: India's next big buy is a missile from US - dnaindia.com

Are we still looking at 2027?

Javelin and Milan are manpad launched missiles. (weighs less than 10Kg)
Nag is a launched from missile carrier(weighs more than 40Kg).:sporty55:

Hope you would have got the reason:thank_you2:

 

[Rage]

Javelin and Milan are manpad launched missiles. (weighs less than 10Kg)
Nag is a launched from missile carrier(weighs more than 40Kg).:sporty55:

Hope you would have got the reason:thank_you2:

Yes, but the article makes no reference to what category of ATGM's "the Army is struggling with".

The DRDO has also started work on a third-generation of "man-portable" Nags which weigh under 14 kg:

This as of 2005:

The Hindu Business Line : Helicopter version of Nag under way

As opposed to the man-portable Javelin which has a carry-weight of 22.3 kg:

Javelin is a man portable anti-tank weapon with a carry-weight of 22.3kg. - Image - Javelin Anti-Armour Missile

And the European Milan 2T/3 with a carry-weight of 12 kg:

Specifications: Milan Anti-Tank Missile System - Army Technology

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

Despite evidence to the contrary Defence Minister says army is battle ready

The defence ministry has said that the Indian army was ready to take on any eventuality in the region, including external aggression after drawing severe criticism over the slow rate of modernisation, due to which the army is not operating up to its full potential.

In a press note issued in the Capital on Friday, the MoD came up with a gobbledygook answer. It said, "Modernisation is a deliberate process and is progressive in nature, the deficiency of the military hardware is reviewed at regular intervals and replacement of these are projected after deliberation based on the operational requirement and enhancement of operational efficiency keeping pace with modernisation. Projection of military hardware requirements has already been made and these are at various stages of procurement."

The government faced stiff criticism from all quarters, when it was revealed during a presentation to the parliament’s standing committee on defence that the forces preparedness in key areas like armoured corps was 71 per cent, in combat helicopters 17 per cent, in mechanised infantry 62 per cent and 52 per cent in artillery. In air defence systems the preparedness was 44 per cent, 60 per cent in engineers, in infantry 65 per cent, in special forces 69 per cent and in Net centricity 24 per cent.

At present pace, the Army will at least take 18 more years to achieve the targets it had set itself over ten years ago. The constant black-listing of defence companies have not helped matter either. The black-listed list includes some of the arms biggies like Denel of South Africa; Israel Military Industries (IMI); Singapore Technologies Kinetic (STK); and now Thales of France. Earlier this year, the world’s biggest defence contractor, Lockheed Martin, was on the blacklist.

Many crucial deals have been scrapped in their final negotiation stage hurting the army, STK’s Pegasus ultra light howitzer , which was the lone gun being evaluated for the army’s mountain divisions has been black listed after the former chairman of Ordnance board factory, Ghosh was arrested, pushing the artillery modernisation by couple of more years. Even, the South African Denel was black- listed when the negotiations had entered its final phase after years of haggling. Considering our terrain with China and Pakistan, the howitzers are a necessity. It’s no secret that the 155mm Bofors gun saved the day for us during Kargil. Even then, it was a pity that we didn’t have enough shells for use and an emergency purchase from South Africa was made to keep them firing.

Armed forces have been demanding a consolidated fund which does not lapse for years, despite government’s acceptance that the funds go underutilized; no step has been taken in this regard as well. In 2006-07, a sum of Rs 3,000 crore was returned back to the government from the allocated defence budget because they went unutilised, this is primarily due to the snail’s pace at which the defence ministry officials and our minister work. Name a project and it stands delayed. Be it the production of indigenous 40,000 tonne aircraft carrier, the procurement of 197 helicopters, for which the earlier bid was cancelled, finalising the deal for 126 multi role medium combat air craft’s, everything seems to be going wrong.

http://www.8ak.in/8ak_india_defence...fence-minister-says-army-is-battle-ready.html

 

[bengalraider]

and now Thales of France.

when did thales get blacklisted?won't this affect the scorpene acquisition?

 

[atleast_a_bronze]

when did thales get blacklisted?won't this affect the scorpene acquisition?

Scorpene submarines are already being built in India. Blacklisting would affect Thales in that it wont be considered for bids for future projects .

 

[CS1.6]

A country that is afraid of cults like Falun Gong is afraid of its shadow!

Consolidation is taking place and there is always that danger for China. They go hammer and tongs to defame His Holiness and placate Pakistan lest the Uighurs in Pakistan decide to land up back in Xinjiang and indoctrinate the Uighurs into greater fundamentalism. Therefore, there is the real fear of religion taking hold of the population to rebel en mass. Unlike the Chinese, who have always been partial to having money rather than principle or religion (it never had religion per se, but cults like Confuciusism et and as Deng said – the colour of the cat does not matter so long as it catches mice; that much for Chinese principles and adherence to Mao’s dream of a Communist China), the Uighurs and Tibetan have great faith in their religion. The Chinese are a wise people. They realise religion can create huge problems and so they do not like cults or religion since that become another focal point to challenge their authority as enshrined by the Chinese concept of Legalism. A good plan it might be, but in today’s world difficult to contain since all are getting educated and they understand their rights.

Further, one must never forget that the US is hardly amenable to lose its primacy in the world. They have infused capitalism into China. Capitalism leads to greed as per the Communist philosophy and so some extent it is correct. It brings in corruption and it leads to economic disparity amongst the people; more so, the developing people. It leads to a rural and urban divide. It is a universal factor. Yet, for China and Russia the effect is greater. These are countries that ensured equitable distribution of wealth and ensured that the basic needs of their citizens were met by the State. Now, when poor people have to struggle to make ends meet and when they see the growing disparity between the rich and the poor, there is discontent and that is dangerous. That is what the US wants to happen in China – a total change in regime! While the world may think that the Chinese are a wily race, one would be wrong to underestimate the US. They brought the USSR down. They are encouraging China to be in the arms race and that costs money and is at the expense of the people – the poor people! They are also getting the hardworking Chinese into a laid back wasteful way - McDonalds, jeans, trademark clothes and all that. China may have invested into the US economy, but it is a Catch 22. Dump the dollar for some other currency and China suffers in the bargain – its economy take the rap!

Why is the Uighur Mother Rubiyat in the US? Ever gave it a thought? She could have gone to Timbuctoo! Muslims are there. Why the US?

One could go on, but then geopolitics is too vast a subject for discussions in a post!


Ah yes! The blue funk over His Holiness’ visit to Tawang is a diplomatic gain! However, India was unimpressed as we are not of many tricks of the CCP and China.

As far as India not being ready in my lifetime, China would not achieve her dream in her lifetime, forget about yours!

China is on the way to dissolution like the USSR, thanks to the US.

Watch this space!

easy, take it easy;

it is 21st century now, you really need to get rid of the cold war thinking style; China to be dissoluted by US? why? what's the good? do you think the top companies in America will like this idea? do you think the guys behind Walmart, GM, Boeing, Emerson and so many other huge companies that has a huge market in China will like this idea?

 

[Yusuf]

Don't worry, the US will find another " china " or create one to suit them.

 

[CS1.6]

Don't worry, the US will find another " china " or create one to suit them.

wow, looks like some one is ready for the replacement.:goodstuff:

 

[Yusuf]

Despite evidence to the contrary Defence Minister says army is battle ready

There is no evidence that the India army is not battle ready. Its first of all a wrong term this battle ready.
India can easily defend itself from external aggression from anyone. We dont have any aggresive intents so we dont have to talk about those capabilities.

 

[johnee]

China is on the way to dissolution like the USSR, thanks to the US.

Watch this space!

Ray Sir,
please kindly explain a bit more about China's potential dissolution and scenario playing out towards and after it. So, that I could understand it better.

 

[Ray]

it is 21st century now, you really need to get rid of the cold war thinking style; China to be dissoluted by US? why? what's the good? do you think the top companies in America will like this idea? do you think the guys behind Walmart, GM, Boeing, Emerson and so many other huge companies that has a huge market in China will like this idea?

Then they will have an open field to do what they want.

They are afraid of Communism and Socialism and that is why Obama is having a problem and if you read the conservative forums, they call him a Socialist!

That's why.

See what they have done to Russia. A non entity in world affairs!

 

[Ray]

Ray Sir,
please kindly explain a bit more about China's potential dissolution and scenario playing out towards and after it. So, that I could understand it better.

Long back I saw an article in the Statesman written by an Englishman titled 'Corrupt the Young'. It gave a detailed account as to how to corrupt a nation into a moribund state.

The British did it to China with opium.

The US is doing it with money, capitalism and its euphoric ecstasy. The Chinese have been infected. The disparity will increase. The Inequality between regions will increase. The Han regions will prosper, while the Moslems and minorities will suffer as they are doing. Google and see the difference.

Religion will become the solace of the deprived and they will get external help.

Things will spiral into a tailspin which all the Mao's horsemen and all the Mao's men will not be able to mend to bring Humpty Dumpty again!

 

[pankaj nema]

Long back I saw an article in the Statesman written by an Englishman titled 'Corrupt the Young'. It gave a detailed account as to how to corrupt a nation into a moribund state.

The British did it to China with opium.

The US is doing it with money, capitalism and its euphoric ecstasy. The Chinese have been infected. The disparity will increase. The Inequality between regions will increase. The Han regions will prosper, while the Moslems and minorities will suffer as they are doing. Google and see the difference.

Religion will become the solace of the deprived and they will get external help.

Things will spiral into a tailspin which all the Mao's horsemen and all the Mao's men will not be able to mend to bring Humpty Dumpty again!

Ray sir ,we should never under estimate nationalistm and patriotism of any country.Chinese are very competent and above all disciplined people.
in china corruption is punished with death sentence unlike in India where it is simply forgotten.
so that means if somebody say USA was to corrupt India's young with whatever (money ,drugs ,western rock and pop culture or even guns) then
India would be "derailed"

china's national ambition of becoming the next super power will keep it on track

and china's continuos rise will spur INDIA to making more progress in all spheres.Just as china looks upto US ,India too looks upto China

and as far as minorities and muslims are concerned ,they will be simply eliminated

 

[A.V.]

now check what the minister says,that " the army is battle ready now "
another lack of co-ordination or just politics

8ak - Indian Defence News: Despite evidence to the contrary Defence Minister says army is battle ready

 

[no smoking]

Long back I saw an article in the Statesman written by an Englishman titled 'Corrupt the Young'. It gave a detailed account as to how to corrupt a nation into a moribund state.

The British did it to China with opium.

The US is doing it with money, capitalism and its euphoric ecstasy. The Chinese have been infected. The disparity will increase. The Inequality between regions will increase. The Han regions will prosper, while the Moslems and minorities will suffer as they are doing. Google and see the difference.

Religion will become the solace of the deprived and they will get external help.

Things will spiral into a tailspin which all the Mao's horsemen and all the Mao's men will not be able to mend to bring Humpty Dumpty again!

Keep dreaming! It is really good for your health.

I am surprised by the fact that you have no idea about chinese personality after reading so much chinese history.

Religion? well, you are still looking at the chinese matters with indian eye. The priority list in most of han chinese is: Family, country, prestige in history, wealth, race. Religion is not in the top 5. Maybe religion has higher state in minority, but considering that 93% of chinese is Han, does it matter?

No wonder people comment that india has a openning society but closing individual mind.

 

[neo29]

This is no surprise ... our politicians were sleeping last 30 years instead of looking at defence needs. politicians are more concerned with bcci .. 20:20 ... erecting statues ... maoists ... etc.
i pity our soldiers who in extreme conditions near border still protect us. we in india are of the mentality " jab tak chal raha hai .. chalne do" . no wonder we dont have latest howitzers, aircrafts and other modern defence needs. honestly we are still 20 years back.

 

[SSG VIPER]

Lol!!! We won our last war just 10 years back. The enemy did not even dare to fight an open war. Kept it's best fighter well within it's borders for the fear of being shot down. China only keeps talking aggressive and nothing more as it knows India is not the same as 62.

Yes there are some capabilities lagging behind but not to a tune that we are nit battle ready. Even in 2027 we will say we are short of one thong or the other. Capabilities keep evolving. There is no end. God how did they come up with the year 2027?

Sorry to be rude man but PAK army didnt send its regular army unlike Indian army which used arty airforce and 4 division or more of its REGULAR INFANTRY?still more then 3 jetand a chopper was shot down by paramilitary and jihadis so plz dont fool yourself.

 

[neo29]

Sorry to be rude man but PAK army didnt send its regular army unlike Indian army which used arty airforce and 4 division or more of its REGULAR INFANTRY?still more then 3 jetand a chopper was shot down by paramilitary and jihadis so plz dont fool yourself.

thats the prob ... your army instead of fighting directly in honorable combat chose to send ur jehadis to do ur fighting. its like hiring someone to clean ur a** .
besides ur hired gunners were in better position high up in the mountains and still they got their ass whipped. your army was packing bags and running back. ur own pm went begging to US to convince them to stop the indian onslaught.
so who is the fool now ??

 

[globaltracker]

Sorry to be rude man but PAK army didnt send its regular army unlike Indian army which used arty airforce and 4 division or more of its REGULAR INFANTRY?still more then 3 jetand a chopper was shot down by paramilitary and jihadis so plz dont fool yourself.

Its been shown multiple times in various sources most of the fighting was done by Pakistan regular army personal.
So please don't think people are fools or blind. I think the argument you would be producing would be accepted only in some pakistani defense forum where Pakistan is next to no-one in power.

peace