North Korean nuclear crisis

[tramp]

@SajeevJino: Why do saythis of US??Does forever mean next 2-3 decades or ???


Also when @tramp mentions it was directed towards soviets, it is partly true. Actually japan didn't attack much on eastern flank of soviets. hence stalin could concentrate on its western end in europe. Stalin couldn't have fought both germany and japan at same time. And US/UK were in no position to support soviets. But once soviets regained lost ground in europe and started making inroads into germany (it is actually they who conquered most of germany and met the US/UK forces and hence encircling the germans within germany. Soviets were growing in stature and influencing countries to take up communism. So when germany fell, difference had started to crop up between allies i.e. soviets and US camps. The US camp had to show the world that they were the actual victors and not US/UK camp. They needed a spectacle for the world to show their might. Hence they needed to end the war quickly in eastern theatre. Also once germans fell, soviets started moving /building up their presence on east. I am not sure whether on day of 2nd nuclear blast or just after that soviets declared war on japan. This also influenced the japanese to surrender as they could not fight both US and soviets at the same time. As japanese were loosing more or less most their war colonies, while soviet army was in full flow with victory over germans. There was some sort of competitive moves from war allies, actually cold war had begun even before world war II ended.

The very fact that the US used two different kinds of bombs in Japan is proof they were testing two techs .. and they used humans as guinea pigs, without an iota of shame.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

@average american , @W.G.Ewald pls explain

This is what I understand of Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings: After US forces captured Japanese islands leading up to Honshu with encountering desperate Japanese resistance (including mass suicide of Japanese civilians), Truman his advisers thought that the war should be ended as quickly as possible.

All the anti-Yank mutterings, distractions, and conspiracy theories here from the usual suspects are irrelevant to the thread subject.

NK is a demonic socialistic aggressor which wants to avenge itself on economically successful nearby countries, if it can. It's as simple as that.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

All this war hype is being created by the US , its poodles and the Western media to make use of this opportunity to punish N.Korea. N.Korea wants to be recognised as a Nuke power, that is the reason for all this tantrump.
Days of US supremacy ended in the last decade. That country would have to accept the realities of today and the future.

Accept your own realities, instead of coming to DFI as a provocateur with your sophomoric nonsense.

 

[Yusuf]

Pardon my ignorance and for being offtopic. Has any country successfully used an anti-missile defence system in a war scenario? Against a ballistic missile? Against a cruise missile?

Patriots in Gulf War

 

[tramp]

This is what I understand of Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings: After US forces captured Japanese islands leading up to Honshu with encountering desperate Japanese resistance (including mass suicide of Japanese civilians), Truman his advisers thought that the war should be ended as quickly as possible.

All the anti-Yank mutterings, distractions, and conspiracy theories here from the usual suspects are irrelevant to the thread subject.

NK is a demonic socialistic aggressor which wants to avenge itself on economically successful nearby countries, if it can. It's as simple as that.

Even if we accept there was resistance from Japan it was only a matter of time before they would have fallen. Maybe you can argue the scale of destruction from an atomic bomb was still a matter of conjecture; could be Yankies wanted to confirm it. But the second bomb on Nagasaki was a hydrogen bomb and it was purely barbaric.

Now North Korea is demonic aggressor, no doubt. (I do not think being socialist makes them uglier!) And I believe, North Korea can and does only act on the dictates of China and the aggressor here really is China.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Even if we accept there was resistance from Japan it was only a matter of time before they would have fallen. Maybe you can argue the scale of destruction from an atomic bomb was still a matter of conjecture; could be Yankies wanted to confirm it. But the second bomb on Nagasaki was a hydrogen bomb and it was purely barbaric.

Now North Korea is demonic aggressor, no doubt. (I do not think being socialist makes them uglier!) And I believe, North Korea can and does only act on the dictates of China and the aggressor here really is China.

There probably is an existing thread for DFI members to lament Yankee aggression against Japan from 68 years ago.

 

[Yusuf]

Re: North Korea Confirms It Conducted 3rd Nuclear Test

Second bomb on Nagasaki was a hydrogen bomb?

 

[tramp]

Re: North Korea Confirms It Conducted 3rd Nuclear Test

Second bomb on Nagasaki was a hydrogen bomb?

Sorry, the Nagasaki bomb was a plutonium bomb. Think it was an implosion device.
Let us get back to topic.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: North Korea Confirms It Conducted 3rd Nuclear Test

Sorry, the Nagasaki bomb was a plutonium bomb. Think it was an implosion device.
Let us get back to topic.

Too late! It reminds me when I was a kid there was this TV ad for Pepsodent toothpaste:


The jingle goes:

"You'll wonder where the yellow went,
When you brush your teeth with Pepsodent."

But we sang,

"You'll wonder where the yellow went,
When the H-bomb hits the Orient."

Oh, we were little racists brats. :-D

Actually I think the joke was in Mad Magazine at the time.

 

[SajeevJino]

@SajeevJino: Why do saythis of US??Does forever mean next 2-3 decades or ???

Yes forever or New world order starts


In your words who is acting like US in next 2-3 decades after will it china or Russia

 

[tramp]

I have a feeling Kerry did not get the response he wanted from China.
What do you guys think?
BBC News - Kerry hails Chinese North Korea pledge

US Secretary of State John Kerry says China is "very serious" about a pledge to help resolve tensions over North Korea's nuclear programme.

The US and China earlier said they were committed to the "denuclearisation" of the Korean peninsula.

Mr Kerry said the two sides would hold further meetings "to bear down very quickly" on how to achieve that goal.

North Korea has recently threatened attacks against South Korea and the US, amid a flurry of bellicose statements.

Speculation has also built that the North was preparing a missile launch, following reports that it had moved at least two Musudan ballistic missiles to its east coast.

Mr Kerry has said any such launch would be a "huge mistake".

After a day of meetings in Beijing with President Xi Jinping and other top Chinese officials on Saturday, he said both governments called on North Korea "to refrain from any provocative steps and that obviously refers to any future missile shoot".

Mr Kerry, who is on a four-day tour of Asia, continues to Japan on Sunday.

'Not just rhetoric'
Following Mr Kerry's meetings, China's top diplomat Yang Jiechi said his country's position was "clear cut".

Continue reading the main story

Analysis
Damian Grammaticas
China correspondent
After weeks of rising tensions, and North Korea's threats of nuclear war, the diplomatic efforts to tackle this crisis are gathering pace.

The pledge to work with the US is a clear signal of China's displeasure with North Korea. China is North Korea's only ally, and is not going to stop supporting the North, but wants it to calm things down.

The question is will North Korea listen? In recent weeks the North's regime has made clear it now views having nuclear weapons as vital to its survival.

It has said explicitly that it won't bargain them away.

Read more from Damian
"China is firmly committed to upholding peace and stability and advancing the denuclearisation process on the Korean peninsula," he said, adding that the issue should be resolved "peacefully through dialogue".

No specifics were given, though Mr Kerry said the two sides would hold "further discussions to bear down very quickly with great specificity on exactly how we will accomplish this goal".

He later told reporters that the US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Martin Dempsey, would visit Beijing later this month accompanied by intelligence officials.

He said he wanted to ensure that the pledges made on Saturday were "not just rhetoric", adding: "There is no question in my mind that China is very serious - very serious - about denuclearising."

China is North Korea's only ally and major trading partner, but has grown increasingly frustrated with its growing belligerence.

Even so, the BBC's Damian Grammaticas reports from Beijing that persuading China to increase the pressure on North Korea will not be easy.

China is still the North's lifeline, and Beijing is unlikely to cut vital supplies of food and fuel since it feels that may make the North even more desperate and unpredictable, our correspondent adds.

'Forward-leaning posture'
On Saturday Mr Kerry raised the prospect that if North Korea stopped its nuclear programme - "if the threat disappears" - then the US would no longer have "the same imperative... to have that kind of robust, forward-leaning posture".

Since the UN imposed fresh sanctions on North Korea in February in response the North's third nuclear test, Pyongyang has promised to restart a mothballed nuclear reactor and threatened a nuclear strike against the US mainland.

Continue reading the main story
Musudan missile
The Musudan, also known as the Nodong-B or the Taepodong-X, is an intermediate-range ballistic missile. Its likely targets are Okinawa, Japan, and US bases in the Pacific
Range estimates differ dramatically. Israeli intelligence suggests 2,500km, while the US Missile Defense Agency estimates 3,200km; other sources put the upper limit at 4,000km
These differences are due in large part to the fact that the missile has never been tested publicly, according to the Center for Nonproliferation Studies. Its payload is also unknown
Missile defences in the region
North Korea's missile programme
It has also shut an emergency military hotline to South Korea, and urged diplomatic staff to leave, saying it cannot guarantee their safety.

The North says it has also been angered by joint US-South Korean military exercises.

On Saturday, a commentary piece on Chinese state news agency Xinhua said Washington had itself "been fanning the flames" by sending military reinforcements to the region.

But during his trip, Mr Kerry has stressed that the US has tried to tone down its own statements, and cancelled some military exercises in an effort to defuse tension.

Though North Korea's rhetoric has been more bellicose than usual, analysts say it fits a long-standing pattern, and may be intended to boost the popularity of Kim Jong-un, who came to power last year.

Some estimates suggest that the missiles North Korea has moved to its east coast could travel 4,000km (2,500 miles), although it is not believed that the Musudan has been tested before.

That would put US bases on the Pacific island of Guam within range.

But US officials including Mr Kerry have been playing down a leaked Pentagon report which warned that Pyongyang could have developed the technology to mount a nuclear warhead on a missile.

 

[Yusuf]

I have a feeling Kerry did not get the response he wanted from China.
What do you guys think?
BBC News - Kerry hails Chinese North Korea pledge

It can be read in two ways.

1) China is responsible for NoKo nukes and exercises control over the NoKos.

2) China has absolutely no control over them/lost control over them and needs to work its way back into getting some control.

 

[SajeevJino]

North Korea's leader Kim Jong-un has not been seen in public for the past two weeks

media starts Their Propaganda..."Is Kim Jong Un Died "

 

[sorcerer]

As of present NK has shown to the world that, with nukes and threats they can get what they want.
This is a serious error.

 

[tramp]

It can be read in two ways.

1) China is responsible for NoKo nukes and exercises control over the NoKos.

2) China has absolutely no control over them/lost control over them and needs to work its way back into getting some control.

Thanks, very enlightening!!

 

[nrupatunga]

@SajeevJino
The significance of US will certainly come down. Who exactly will replace then is difficult to say. But there will be a period (not sure how long this maybe) where world will be very close to a actual multi polar world.

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The book "Time to start thinking: America in age of descent" by edward luce is a nice read on the subject. In the book luce travels across america meeting various people and documenting the descent of US.

 

[tramp]

@SajeevJino
The significance of US will certainly come down. Who exactly will replace then is difficult to say. But there will be a period (not sure how long this maybe) where world will be very close to a actual multi polar world.

@nrupatunga
The world order is tending strongly towards a multipolar world with US and China leading, but Russia and Europe as well as India being power centers. India needs to get out of its NAM mindset and think in terms of multipolar world where it will have a major role.

 

[sorcerer]

US has done a good thing by teaching the world that Aggression is not a solution to most of the world problems and Dont start a war if you dont know how to end it.
Having said that, I think US has to learn from countries that has used diplomacy as a tool to find solutions to problems that is bothering them.
in my opinion: Countries with a matured,transparent and well "crafted" Diplomacy Doctrine wii be the next power center.

 

[nrupatunga]

@tramp
Even considering actions in mali,libya etc europe cannot play good cop role in world. Yes they have lead in terms of technology, economics. But rest is catching fast. With each year, power of europe is declining. Their influencing power will come down inspite of some of them having veto power. If things like brics bank really take off, imf etc will take backstage or atleast their dominance wanes off.

 

[tramp]

Will the missile blast off or not?
BBC News - North Korea marks birthday of Kim Il-sung

North Korea marks birthday of Kim Il-sung

North Korea is marking the 101st anniversary of the birth of founding father Kim Il-sung as tensions continue over the country's nuclear programme.

Leader Kim Jong-un visited the mausoleum of his grandfather and his father Kim Jong-il in Pyongyang, the official KCNA news agency reports.

In recent weeks the North has threatened to attack South Korea, Japan and US bases in the region.

The US has ruled out holding any more "artificial talks" with the North.

"We cannot continue this charade and we cannot have a policy of rhetoric about denuclearisation. There have to be real steps here," Secretary of State John Kerry told the BBC after talks with leaders in Japan following a tour of East Asia.

Mr Kerry said the North's main diplomatic ally, China, had made a very strong statement criticising Pyongyang for its recent behaviour. He said he hoped Beijing was now recognising the regional instability created by the actions of Kim Jong-un.

Early on Monday Mr Kim was at the Kumsusan mausoleum to pay "high tribute and humblest reverence" to the country's former leaders, KCNA reports.

The streets of Pyongyang are adorned with flags and banners for the holiday, a red-letter day for one of the world's most powerful cults of personality, says the BBC's John Sudworth in Seoul.

It is a reminder perhaps of what really lies behind the recent bellicose threats - a need to ensure the regime's survival, our correspondent adds.

Tensions have been high on the Korean peninsula after North Korea conducted its third underground nuclear test on 12 February that resulted in sanctions from the UN.

There is speculation that the North will use Kim Il-sung's birthday for a missile launch.

At this time last year, it launched a rocket with the stated aim of putting a satellite into orbit to mark the 100th anniversary of Kim Il-sung's birth. The rocket broke up shortly after take-off.

The UN Security Council condemned the launch, which many outside the country saw as an illegal test of long-range missile technology.

Fiery rhetoric
On Sunday US Secretary of State John Kerry called on North Korea's leaders to "come to the table in a responsible way" to end regional tensions, warning it risked further isolation if its threats continued.

He also reaffirmed the US commitment to defend its allies, including Japan.

Speculation has been building that the North is preparing a missile launch, following reports that it has moved at least two Musudan ballistic missiles to its east coast.

Japan is within range of these rockets and has been taking precautions, including setting up batteries of US-made Patriot anti-missile systems around the capital and sending two warships to the Sea of Japan, with orders to shoot down any missiles fired towards the Japanese islands.


John Kerry said Pyongyang has to take 'meaningful steps' to honour its international commitments
At a joint news conference with Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida on Sunday, Mr Kerry stressed that Seoul, Beijing, Tokyo and Washington had "committed to take action together" and to making the goal of denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula "a reality".

Washington and Tokyo have a security alliance dating back to the 1950s, under which Washington is bound to protect Japan if it is attacked.

North Korea habitually issues fiery statements denouncing the US and South Korea, but the rhetoric has grown increasingly aggressive since the UN imposed a fresh round of sanctions in March.

Pyongyang has also been angered by joint military manoeuvres by the US and South Korea, which it says are preparations for war.

It has responded by vowing to restart an inactive nuclear reactor, shut an emergency military hotline to the South and by urging countries to withdraw their diplomatic staff, saying it cannot now guarantee their safety.

Some estimates suggest that the Musudan missiles which North Korea has moved to its east coast could travel 4,000km (2,500 miles).

That would put US bases on the Pacific island of Guam within range, although the exact threat is unclear as it is not believed that the Musudan has been tested before.

Mr Kerry has stressed that it would be a "huge mistake" for the North to go ahead with a launch, saying it would further isolate North Korea and that the people of the country are in need of food, not missiles.