New DRDO projects

[porky_kicker]

Ok last post

1.

Note : imaging seeker , curved rear fins , model of mobile ground launcher at bottom right .

2.

Note : 2.75 rocket with laser guidance, flat rear fins. It is talon from Raytheon so air to surface.

So I won't bother much , since no way to confirm with guarantee what I said previously.

 

[porky_kicker]

I guess rockets can be launched from a airborne pod or a ground mounted pod!
Irrespective of that, this rocket is NOT what the MRPKS requirement is about. The required range, required trajectory etc are all way off from Army's requirement pf MRPKS.

I never said it is..................

I just said army might have gotten inspired by a presentation ( concept ) by vem in the past and the idea stuck into them.

 

[Enquirer]

I never said it is..................

I just said army might have gotten inspired by a presentation ( concept ) by vem in the past and the idea stuck into them.

Hmmm...unlikely!
You're giving too much credit to VEM.
VEM's rocket is just a short range rocket with some (imaging) guidance....Guided Pinaka already does much of that....to a longer range.

The need to launch rockets (vertically) from safe mountainous hideouts.....and also be able to get into those mountains terrains....all seem like something that the Army felt a dire need for while having fought (or wargamed) several wars in the mountainous regions.

 

[porky_kicker]

@porky_kicker pics credited to you.

Come back to dfilite.

Will join when I get what I want , still waiting for it to happen.

 

[sthf]

Well, I can not go into each specific point and write " the reply is above in red and underlined" . That will end the dialectics.

Then you should stop engaging in strawman arguments sir.

Let me repeat certain basic points which I might have failed to make you understand.

Sure.

Number One - The basic role of artillery continues to remain - Support own forces by fire power. Within that comes an important task of providing close support.

No disagreements there.

Provision of close support means - support own attacking troops to as near the objective/ enemy as possible and in defence bring fire on attacking / advancing enemy to as near own troops as possible. It means the close support fire will stop the moment it comes at safety zone of the firing artillery.

No disagreements there.

If you have 155 How or 120 Mortars as your artillery they will stop firing at 300 -350 meter away from own troops. Compare that with 105 Guns and 81 mm mortars which will take the troops to as near as 150 and 100 meters. So now with 155 How and 120 Mortars you have exposed your troops 150 -200 meters more when enemy head will not be down.

You do realise that I never advocated that 120 mm mortars should replace 81 mm mortars in the infantry battalions but supplement them.

Sir, either you have comprehension troubles or rigidity in opinions is preventing you from understand the very nature of this conversation.

That means hell of a lot. Kargil has proved that 150-100 meters might even take a day and 20 odd soldiers dead.

This single fact is sufficient to negate the theory of 120 Mortars being given to Infantry.

How do suppose that to be true? I never said that infantry should throw out their 81 mm mortars.

In respect of US forces and USMC, you are right that those infantry battalions have been equipped with 120 Mortars for "Situations less than War" as expeditionary forces. The battalion combat Groups or Brigade Combat commands being equipped with 120 Mortars can be unwieldy, large forces and logistically well supported not fighting "war". Those are not organised to defend Demchok or Bumla nor are those forces required to attack Hajipir.

You are assuming a ton of things without presenting any evidence whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_expeditionary_brigade

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_expeditionary_unit

Take a look at the TO&E of these expeditionary units and repeat that 120 mm mortar is too much for them to to carry. You can't have weak logistics and become superpower by crossing two oceans. If they can carry fighter jets, tanks, helicopters to battle 10,000 km away from home, surely they can carry puny mortars.

It is IA's job to defend Bum La not theirs. Their job was/is to fight a World War against Soviets/Russians under nuclear umbrella in their own backyard but yes, tell me more about the hardships of Hajipir.

Moreover these groups do not have fire support of 155 How or rocket artillery. 120 Mortar become the major and primary weapon of fire support. They do not carry their guns like Indian Army to Jaffna and then mothball guns for artillery gunners opening roads.

Simply googling their TO&E would have prevented you from making these sort of absurd statements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade_combat_team#Reorganization

All BCTs have their own field artillery.

Number three / four - Indian Infantry is organised and equipped to be as light as erstwhile rifle regiments / battalions without much of logistics tail or support parafernalia - to undertake operation in all kinds of terrain and under all conditions including NBC. So they are light, flexible and mobile as unit.

Yeah I have been hearing this since 1999 now. "We are a light force and bullet proof vests are too heavy." "We can't have ACs in tanks or else jawans will fall asleep."

Logistics is IA's job. No one else is going to do it for them. Unless this "light force" is sacrificing everything heavier than 500 kg i.e. weight of the mortar your argument is null and void.

Slapping 120 Mortars on to them deats the very basic structure role and nature of Indian Infantry. Their 81 Mortars suits them well and fits into all aspects. Thy fire six mortars as a platoon and equipping them with a same numbers of Mortars as a battery will unbalance everything.

This is patently absurd.

a) Your strawman is turning it into a scarecrow.

b) How on God's green earth a platoon of 6 mortars and a battery of 6 mortars are so radically different from each other they will create "unbalance".

It is therefore, should be a big "No". It does not fit into scheme of things even at places like LC where it is difficult to move and shift 120 Mortars like the present 81 Mortars.

Sigh....

The solution should be found in application of modern technology in increasing the range of 81 Mortars and making the ammo more versatile by use of modern fuzes. Infantries of half of the world have followed this route.

Agreed.

The ideas of using rocket artillery for close support as suggested is never feasible due to technical grounds.

Once again, you are making claims without any evidence.

The idea of destruction of target even with 1000 tons of explosive does not work satisfactorily. No army can muster those resources and those who could, have failed in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria leaving behind their guns. .

Strawman and irrelevant.

Rest all is "as above in red and underlined".

You should have learnt what strawman means and saved me a lot of grief.

To say that rest all is bunkum to me.

Bunkum, pish posh, mumbo jumbo. Whatever floats your boat. If you cannot argue on merit of your points don't engage in strawman argument.

From my side you can have Artillery Commands and Corps fighting maneuver wars on mountain tops and passes where not even a single shell may land . That is not the issue.

Strawman.

 

[Bhadra]

Then you should stop engaging in strawman arguments sir.



Sure.



No disagreements there.



No disagreements there.



You do realise that I never advocated that 120 mm mortars should replace 81 mm mortars in the infantry battalions but supplement them.

Sir, either you have comprehension troubles or rigidity in opinions is preventing you from understand the very nature of this conversation.




How do suppose that to be true? I never said that infantry should throw out their 81 mm mortars.



You are assuming a ton of things without presenting any evidence whatsoever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_expeditionary_brigade

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_expeditionary_unit

Take a look at the TO&E of these expeditionary units and repeat that 120 mm mortar is too much for them to to carry. You can't have weak logistics and become superpower by crossing two oceans. If they can carry fighter jets, tanks, helicopters to battle 10,000 km away from home, surely they can carry puny mortars.

It is IA's job to defend Bum La not theirs. Their job was/is to fight a World War against Soviets/Russians under nuclear umbrella in their own backyard but yes, tell me more about the hardships of Hajipir.



Simply googling their TO&E would have prevented you from making these sort of absurd statements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade_combat_team#Reorganization

All BCTs have their own field artillery.



Yeah I have been hearing this since 1999 now. "We are a light force and bullet proof vests are too heavy." "We can't have ACs in tanks or else jawans will fall asleep."

Logistics is IA's job. No one else is going to do it for them. Unless this "light force" is sacrificing everything heavier than 500 kg i.e. weight of the mortar your argument is null and void.



This is patently absurd.

a) Your strawman is turning it into a scarecrow.

b) How on God's green earth a platoon of 6 mortars and a battery of 6 mortars are so radically different from each other they will create "unbalance".



Sigh....



Agreed.



Once again, you are making claims without any evidence.



Strawman and irrelevant.



You should have learnt what strawman means and saved me a lot of grief.



Bunkum, pish posh, mumbo jumbo. Whatever floats your boat. If you cannot argue on merit of your points don't engage in strawman argument.



Strawman.

Mr Strawman, I can not not waste my time which I assiduously tried giving you. I have no surplus time answering your psycho analytical accentries of less than one liners. You tried killing the subject and who are you and me. At least I am no one to decide on the issue.

So we end the session and do whatever we can !!

 

[sthf]

Mr Strawman, I can not not waste my time which I assiduously tried giving you. I have no surplus time answering your psycho analytical accentries of less than one liners. You tried killing the subject and who are you and me. At least I am no one to decide on the issue.

So we end the session and do whatever we can !!

Good job.

a) Your barely comprehensible rants serve no purpose other than to show how brilliantly you can muddy the waters.

b) Please use Google before you type out things like BCTs and MEBs don't have organic artillery or that USMC use 120 mm mortars as artillery system and not as an infantry one. Only two of the numerous examples where you have been plain wrong and refused to acknowledge it.

c) Using strawman is a sign of a man incapable of putting up coherent, fact based arguments.

Good day to you sir and Jai Hind.

 

[Bhadra]

Good job.

a) Your barely comprehensible rants serve no purpose other than to show how brilliantly you can muddy the waters.

b) Please use Google before you type out things like BCTs and MEBs don't have organic artillery or that USMC use 120 mm mortars as artillery system and not as an infantry one. Only two of the numerous examples where you have been plain wrong and refused to acknowledge it.

c) Using strawman is a sign of a man incapable of putting up coherent, fact based arguments.

Good day to you sir and Jai Hind.

That is fine, I am stupid and you are too brilliant. Keep it up. You will do well..
BCT are generic term and they are not static organisation everywhere.
For operations other than war their composition may defer ... there might not be BCT at all
I never said USMC do not use 120 Mortars.

You are just a useless bullshitter and I better excuse myself...

However I shall always maintain that 120 Mortars are not meant for Infantry under Indian environment . Period.

And artillery in India is shrieking away from their basic tasks.
Good buy and all the best.

 

[sthf]

That is fine, I am stupid and you are too brilliant. Keep it up. You will do well..

Agreed.

BCT are generic term and they are not static organisation everywhere.
For operations other than war their composition may defer ... there might not be BCT at all

I dare you to share a single credible source which says BCT will move without their artillery for military operations.

I never said USMC do not use 120 Mortars.

You didn't. You are the man who was adamant that USMC use 120 mm mortars until I informed you that they don't.

Your words in red. Stop Lying. It is unbecoming.

120 Mortars are the major artillery support system the world over. US Forces (USMC and US Army) under their new doctrines of war fighting and expeditionary operations depend primarily on 120 Mortar systems due to their lightness, effectiveness, portability, flexibility and air transportability. Check for yourself.

However I shall always maintain that 120 Mortars are not meant for Infantry under Indian environment . Period.

So this is what it comes to. Maine jo keh diya so keh diya.

Good. But remember you are entitled to your opinions but not your facts.

And artillery in India is shrieking away from their basic tasks.
Good buy and all the best.

You remind me of this guy. The resemblance is uncanny.

 

[NeXoft007]

VRDE already testing a 6x6 WHAP prototype. No pics available as of now.

 

[NeXoft007]

Ashok Leyland Super Stallion 12 x 12 design is out! Have a payload of 34 tons and it's specially designed for Missile launching applications.

 

[ezsasa]

VRDE already testing a 6x6 WHAP prototype. No pics available as of now.
View attachment 34463

Been waiting for this news for a year now, 8 wheelers was not suitable for urban combat...

4 X 4 Version would also be nice, with thick armour of course... LSV is there for light armoured category..

 

[Enquirer]

VRDE already testing a 6x6 WHAP prototype. No pics available as of now.
View attachment 34463

This in addition to the 8x8 Kestrel??
Will 6x6 co-exist with the 8x8 version or replace it?

 

[ezsasa]

This in addition to the 8x8 Kestrel??
Will 6x6 co-exist with the 8x8 version or replace it?

In the video I posted yesterday in think tank thread DRDO chairman said they are in the process of developing new applications for whap, which I am assuming are new versions of WHAP. May be this is one of them...

 

[Enquirer]

In the video I posted yesterday in think tank thread DRDO chairman said they are in the process of developing new applications for whap, which I am assuming are new versions of WHAP. May be this is one of them...

can't find the video....could you repost?

 

[G10]

What happens to tata Whap?
Damn 30 Characters.

 

[ezsasa]

Vimarsha on DRDO's Achievements in Defence Indigenization by Dr G. Satheesh Reddy, Chairman, DRDO

.........................................................

can't find the video....could you repost?

 

[porky_kicker]

Seems like a centre line single hydraulic lift system. And 4 Nirbhay would mean around 6 tons. But this is a 5 ton system if I am right.

Have you seen the newer Shaurya launcher with a single hydraulic arm ?

And some presstitudes were claiming that Shaurya is not deployed. Lol

 

[porky_kicker]

View attachment 34409

This is the new unidentified launcher system for an unidentified missile which I had alluded to previously.

View attachment 34410

It has a 4 celled single cannister , which can be reloaded using the same launcher , no need of a additional missile reloading vehicle.

I think ( speculating ) this launcher is for AKASH NG . 8 canisters , 2 per 4 cells of the canister container of the launcher.

 

[porky_kicker]

Found another unidentified launcher system , it's interesting.

Anyways anybody wants to see the pic , where the upper body of a train wagon is half retracted showing its deadly cargo :biggrin2: