New Chinese visa policy irks India

Ray

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One is not too aware of the internal situation in China and so one cannot really know the situation about starvation and malnutrition out there.

It maybe recalled that China is so secretive that even the SARS was not reported and the UN agencies debarred!

So what is there happening is a total black out.

However, regarding STARVATION IN CHINA, this should suffice:

The Great Leap Forward Period
in China, 1958-1960


Economic development under the People's Republic of China government started with about 150 development projects planned, financed and staffed by the Soviet Union. When political ideological differences between Mao Zedong and Nikita Khrushchev led to a split, the 15,000 Soviet engineers and staff on the development projects were withdrawn and the blueprints for the projects destroyed. China did not have the technological and financial resources to complete these projects on its own and Mao Zedong was made conscious of how vulnerable China was in depending upon outside aid, even from communist regimes.

It was then that the conviction developed with Mao that China would industrialize on its own, pulling itself up by its own bootstraps, so to speak. Mao was also aware that the first attempt to create a socialist economy was brought to a halt in the Soviet Union in 1921 when peasants reacted to confiscation of their grain harvest by declining to plant and produce as much grain. Mao was also aware that when Stalin began his five-year plans he collectivized agriculture in order to have control over what was planted and produced. Mao should have also been aware, although perhaps he was not, that the collectivization program in the Soviet Union was a great failure in terms of production and that a severe famine occured in the Ukraine afterwards. Nevertheless Mao called for the Chinese peasants to be organized into communes. This, in effect, took away the land that had been distributed to the peasants in the years immediately after 1949. The peasants had been urged to confiscate the lands of the landowners and distribute it to the peasants that farmed it. This land distribution program was extremely popular with the peasants and contributed to their support of Mao's Communist Party. But the peasants had the land for less that ten years before the State took it away from them.

First, peasants were organized into cooperatives of 20 to 40 families. This was at the village level. Next the cooperatives were replaced by county-wide collectives involving hundreds of thousands of people. In addition to calling for the creation of communes Mao urged the peasants to build backyard blastfurnaces to make iron and steel for tools. The peasants were supposed to melt down scrap metal to make useful items such as tools and utensils. In practice the program worked backwards with peasants melting down useful items to produce unusable masses of metal. This happened because the State exhorted the peasants to increase production from the backyard blast furnaces and when they ran out of scrap they started melting down anything they could find, including tools and utensils. Some of this destruction of useful objects to increase the production from the backyard blastfurnaces might be attributed to enthusiasm but probably more of it was due to there being quotas of production from the furnaces that had to be met. Communist leaders at the local level faced with possible personal punishment for not meeting the quota or destruction of useful items of metal and of wood for fuel usually would choose to try to meet the quota. But the mixture of metals and the impurities in the fuel produced metal that could not be formed into anything useful. The metal was too brittle.

The more incidious consequence of the backyard blastfurnaces and other nonagricultural projects of the Great Leap Forward was that they took labor away from food production and led to a shortfall in food. China was, as always in recent history, on the edge of subsistence and any decrease in food production means privation if not starvation.

To make matters worse the centralized control resulted in no one with the authority to change things being informed of the decline in food production. The commune leaders were under pressure to exceed past production and when production declined they did report it. They, in fact, reported what the higher authorities wanted to hear. Thus the policy errors that were leading to food shortfalls went on beyond the point when anyone could do anything about them. The central government made things even worse for the peasants by taking a share based upon the falsified production figures and thus leaving the peasants too little to survive on.

In addition to the decline in food production due to the diversion of effort away from agriculture there was losses in food production because of the erroneous policies promoted by the State. One of these idiocies was close planting. If two plants are set too close to each other there is not enough nutrients in the soil to feed both and both die. The State promoted close planting of grain to increase productivity. The initial growth of a plant derives from the nutrient stored in the seed itself. With close planting the initial germination produces spectacular results, but when the growth of the plant has to depend upon nutrients drawn from the soil the close planting produces failures. During the Great Leap Forward there developed a competition for creating the most striking demonstrations of close planting. The record was probably the case which produced a famous photograph of children standing on top of a wheat field that could hold their weight. Jasper Becker, in his history of the Great Leap Forward era Hungry Ghosts tells that an interviewee told him that the picture was faked. There was a bench hidden in the wheat below the children's feet that supported them.

Jasper Becker in Hungry Ghosts traces the foolishness of close planting to the fraudulent science of the Soviet Union. T.D. Lysenko was a quack who got the support of Joseph Stalin and ruled over Soviet genetics for twenty five years. Among the many erroneous notions promoted by Lysenko and which had to be accepted in Marxist countries was his "law of the life of species" which said that plants of the same species do not compete with each other but instead help each other to survive. This was linked to the Marxist notion of classes in which members of the same class do not compete but instead help each other survive. So Marxist ideology seemed to support the notion that the denser grain was planted the better it was for the grain. But in reality this close planting led to whithering of the plants after the initial germination phase. Lysenko was responsible for many other foolish notions most based upon the precept that environment not genetics determine plant characteristics. Lysenko argued that if you grew plants a little farther north each year they would adapt to the climate and eventually you would be able to grow oranges in the arctic. All of the Lysenko nonsense had to accepted in the Soviet Union and promoted in propaganda as scientific truth. The Marxists in China apparently believed it was the truth. The reality was that this nonsense resulted in less production of food under conditions of bare survival.

Some tried to communicate to Mao the failures of the Great Leap Forward but were denounced as traitors. Marshal Peng Dehuai who commanded the Chinese troops in the Korean War was one of those denounced and branded as a counter-revolutionary by Mao. Peng captured the situation well in a poem:

The millet is scattered over the ground.
The leaves of the sweet potato are withered.
The young and old have gone to smelt iron.
To harvest the grain there are only
children and old women. How shall we get through the next year?

Peng Dehuai

This version of the poem quoted in Jasper Becker's Hungry Ghosts

Famine ensued and was particularly severe in some areas. The people in these areas were forbidden to leave their area and so were doomed to starvation. Altogether about thirty million people died in the famine. The famine was caused by the shortfall in food production but this was a result of the bad policies and centralization of power in the central government. It was made worse by the refusal to admit the problem. During the time peasants were starving in the country side the government was shipping to grain to the Soviet Union to repay loans. Some grain also rotted in warehouses in the cities where it was taken from the communes.

This famine was kept secret from the outside world until China began opening up to the outside world and demographers began analyzing the the population statistics.

When Mao finally accepted the fact that the Great Leap Forward had failed he left the task of achieving an economic recovery to Liu Shaoqi, Deng Xiaoping and Zhou Enlai. Harrison Salisbury believes there is evidence that Mao made an explicit agreement with the three that he would give them free rein for five years. The three did bring about the recovery but in 1966 Mao sought to return to absolute power again. The power struggle took the form of the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution (1966-1976). It was a social and economic disaster for China but it was brilliant guerilla warfare on the part of Mao. Mao may have been a fool in matters of economic policy but he was a genius in guerilla warfare.
 
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Ray

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It's no use to play the Xinjiang,Tibet,Taiwan cards.

1. Uighur population is only near 10 million ,only 45% percent of the total population of Xinjiang. And in Urumqi ,the capital of Xinjiang ,the Uyghur population is only 20% percent of the whole population in Urumqi.
In Xinjiang ,there's Production and Construction Corps .In the peace time ,the corps are mainly on agriculture and business issues. But as the riots occurs ,the corps are equipped with weapons to clam down riots. The total population of Production and Construction Corps in Xinjiang is nearly 3 million.

BTW ,only few of Uyghurs want to separate ,I think no more than 10 thousands.
90% percent of Uighurs want to have a good and peace life.

So ,Xinjiang would not be separated.

2. About Tibet ,the population of tibetan is about 3 million. Most Tibetans are richer than the Han Chinese ,and the central government provides many material benefits solutions to promote Tibet's economic development.

I can see no strength of the separists in Tibet .

Dalai Lama is old enough ,no much influence on the Tibet issue.

3 Taiwan

If without China mainland's support ,Taiwan will soon be weakened as for economic aspect.
Taiwanese would not expect the war ,and Taiwan's military force can not stand against the China mainland's second wave attack.
The percentages quoted by you on the Uighurs in Xingjian and Urumqi, are but the effects of China's policy of changing the demography in favour of the Hans.

You have also forgotten to mention the monetary and other incentives given to Hans to migrate to areas where the CCP wants to change the demography into a Han majority!

It is another concoction of facts that the only a few Uighurs are rebelling!!

The Uighurs are not allowed to practice their religion freely. The mullah is a govt appointed person who can only give govt approved sermons. People below 19 are not allowed any religious education, nor are they allowed to carry out their prayers in a Mosque!!

The Uighur language and culture is being slowly crushed. Mandarin is the medium of instructions for education. Those who do not know Mandarin do not get jobs - at least not the ones that are worth their while.

Now, that is indeed a 'beautiful environment' for the Uighurs!! And you inform us that the majority of Uighurs don't want to separate and instead have a good and peaceful life!! Did you like it as a Han when the Japanese conquered parts of China and forced the Han into the Japanese way of life? I am sure the Hans loved the good life and the peace that the Japanese brought to the 'barbarian' Hans!! Any comments?

Having interacted with Hans, I accept that MONEY is their GOD! Sharp businessmen where the issue of money is concerned! Great salesmen too! However, Money is not everything to life for many, even if it is for the Hans. May I remind you that the greed for money is the fountainhead of all the evils in society and in the world. Therefore, there are many cultures and religions which teaches self satisfaction through wealth is not the way of good living. Maybe, you could ask the Uighurs if money can buy them off!

As far as Tibet is concerned, so long as there is HH The Dalai Lama, China can breathe easy. He is a pacifist and a Man of God, if not God Himself to the Tibetans. When he is no longer there, China should be ready for the real show. The Tibetan youth are restless and many are disagree with the pacifism of the Dalai Lama, though out of reverence are not putting their ideas into practice. No Dalai Lama means BIG trouble!!

So, Tibet is only a dormant volcano that is just bubbling below the surface!

Taiwan survived before and will survive now and in the future too!

The US cannot abandon Taiwan because it is a key to their strategic interests and with the US wooing the peripheral states around China, it will be an interesting situation when the push comes to shove!!

You may not be aware, but ask Hu.

And don't ask me Who is Hu.
 

SixSigma1978

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How about India? How many times do we have to remind you of India's territory disputes with all of your neighbors?
ALL THE FRIGGIN' TIME.
Our displutes with PAKISTAN is with PAKISTAN alone.

you SIMPLY take Kashmir and extrapolate it to ALL.
India has territorial dispute ONLY with Pakistan.

Chna has it with Japan, Russia, Tiawan, South East Nations!!!
(im not including indo-china and vice versa for obvious reasons)
..its arrogant and dangerous to piss off all your neighbours

Salvation Lies Within
 
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nimo_cn

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One is not too aware of the internal situation in China and so one cannot really know the situation about starvation and malnutrition out there.

It maybe recalled that China is so secretive that even the SARS was not reported and the UN agencies debarred!

So what is there happening is a total black out.

However, regarding STARVATION IN CHINA, this should suffice:

The Great Leap Forward Period
in China, 1958-1960


Economic development under the People's Republic of China government started with about 150 development projects planned, financed and staffed by the Soviet Union. When political ideological differences between Mao Zedong and Nikita Khrushchev led to a split, the 15,000 Soviet engineers and staff on the development projects were withdrawn and the blueprints for the projects destroyed. China did not have the technological and financial resources to complete these projects on its own and Mao Zedong was made conscious of how vulnerable China was in depending upon outside aid, even from communist regimes.

It was then that the conviction developed with Mao that China would industrialize on its own, pulling itself up by its own bootstraps, so to speak. Mao was also aware that the first attempt to create a socialist economy was brought to a halt in the Soviet Union in 1921 when peasants reacted to confiscation of their grain harvest by declining to plant and produce as much grain. Mao was also aware that when Stalin began his five-year plans he collectivized agriculture in order to have control over what was planted and produced. Mao should have also been aware, although perhaps he was not, that the collectivization program in the Soviet Union was a great failure in terms of production and that a severe famine occured in the Ukraine afterwards. Nevertheless Mao called for the Chinese peasants to be organized into communes. This, in effect, took away the land that had been distributed to the peasants in the years immediately after 1949. The peasants had been urged to confiscate the lands of the landowners and distribute it to the peasants that farmed it. This land distribution program was extremely popular with the peasants and contributed to their support of Mao's Communist Party. But the peasants had the land for less that ten years before the State took it away from them.

First, peasants were organized into cooperatives of 20 to 40 families. This was at the village level. Next the cooperatives were replaced by county-wide collectives involving hundreds of thousands of people. In addition to calling for the creation of communes Mao urged the peasants to build backyard blastfurnaces to make iron and steel for tools. The peasants were supposed to melt down scrap metal to make useful items such as tools and utensils. In practice the program worked backwards with peasants melting down useful items to produce unusable masses of metal. This happened because the State exhorted the peasants to increase production from the backyard blast furnaces and when they ran out of scrap they started melting down anything they could find, including tools and utensils. Some of this destruction of useful objects to increase the production from the backyard blastfurnaces might be attributed to enthusiasm but probably more of it was due to there being quotas of production from the furnaces that had to be met. Communist leaders at the local level faced with possible personal punishment for not meeting the quota or destruction of useful items of metal and of wood for fuel usually would choose to try to meet the quota. But the mixture of metals and the impurities in the fuel produced metal that could not be formed into anything useful. The metal was too brittle.

The more incidious consequence of the backyard blastfurnaces and other nonagricultural projects of the Great Leap Forward was that they took labor away from food production and led to a shortfall in food. China was, as always in recent history, on the edge of subsistence and any decrease in food production means privation if not starvation.

To make matters worse the centralized control resulted in no one with the authority to change things being informed of the decline in food production. The commune leaders were under pressure to exceed past production and when production declined they did report it. They, in fact, reported what the higher authorities wanted to hear. Thus the policy errors that were leading to food shortfalls went on beyond the point when anyone could do anything about them. The central government made things even worse for the peasants by taking a share based upon the falsified production figures and thus leaving the peasants too little to survive on.

In addition to the decline in food production due to the diversion of effort away from agriculture there was losses in food production because of the erroneous policies promoted by the State. One of these idiocies was close planting. If two plants are set too close to each other there is not enough nutrients in the soil to feed both and both die. The State promoted close planting of grain to increase productivity. The initial growth of a plant derives from the nutrient stored in the seed itself. With close planting the initial germination produces spectacular results, but when the growth of the plant has to depend upon nutrients drawn from the soil the close planting produces failures. During the Great Leap Forward there developed a competition for creating the most striking demonstrations of close planting. The record was probably the case which produced a famous photograph of children standing on top of a wheat field that could hold their weight. Jasper Becker, in his history of the Great Leap Forward era Hungry Ghosts tells that an interviewee told him that the picture was faked. There was a bench hidden in the wheat below the children's feet that supported them.

Jasper Becker in Hungry Ghosts traces the foolishness of close planting to the fraudulent science of the Soviet Union. T.D. Lysenko was a quack who got the support of Joseph Stalin and ruled over Soviet genetics for twenty five years. Among the many erroneous notions promoted by Lysenko and which had to be accepted in Marxist countries was his "law of the life of species" which said that plants of the same species do not compete with each other but instead help each other to survive. This was linked to the Marxist notion of classes in which members of the same class do not compete but instead help each other survive. So Marxist ideology seemed to support the notion that the denser grain was planted the better it was for the grain. But in reality this close planting led to whithering of the plants after the initial germination phase. Lysenko was responsible for many other foolish notions most based upon the precept that environment not genetics determine plant characteristics. Lysenko argued that if you grew plants a little farther north each year they would adapt to the climate and eventually you would be able to grow oranges in the arctic. All of the Lysenko nonsense had to accepted in the Soviet Union and promoted in propaganda as scientific truth. The Marxists in China apparently believed it was the truth. The reality was that this nonsense resulted in less production of food under conditions of bare survival.

Some tried to communicate to Mao the failures of the Great Leap Forward but were denounced as traitors. Marshal Peng Dehuai who commanded the Chinese troops in the Korean War was one of those denounced and branded as a counter-revolutionary by Mao. Peng captured the situation well in a poem:

The millet is scattered over the ground.
The leaves of the sweet potato are withered.
The young and old have gone to smelt iron.
To harvest the grain there are only
children and old women. How shall we get through the next year?

Peng Dehuai

This version of the poem quoted in Jasper Becker's Hungry Ghosts

Famine ensued and was particularly severe in some areas. The people in these areas were forbidden to leave their area and so were doomed to starvation. Altogether about thirty million people died in the famine. The famine was caused by the shortfall in food production but this was a result of the bad policies and centralization of power in the central government. It was made worse by the refusal to admit the problem. During the time peasants were starving in the country side the government was shipping to grain to the Soviet Union to repay loans. Some grain also rotted in warehouses in the cities where it was taken from the communes.

This famine was kept secret from the outside world until China began opening up to the outside world and demographers began analyzing the the population statistics.

When Mao finally accepted the fact that the Great Leap Forward had failed he left the task of achieving an economic recovery to Liu Shaoqi, Deng Xiaoping and Zhou Enlai. Harrison Salisbury believes there is evidence that Mao made an explicit agreement with the three that he would give them free rein for five years. The three did bring about the recovery but in 1966 Mao sought to return to absolute power again. The power struggle took the form of the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution (1966-1976). It was a social and economic disaster for China but it was brilliant guerilla warfare on the part of Mao. Mao may have been a fool in matters of economic policy but he was a genius in guerilla warfare.
LOL, that is what you always do, quote what happened in China almost 40 years ago to comfort your fellows and yourself.

How about the modern China, China in 2010?

There is a saying in China, "活在当下", which loosely translates into "live in the present", meaning people should care more about what is going on now, do not dwell on the past or fantasise about the future too much. That is our philosophy.

As per my observation, what you are good at, as well as some of your fellows, is "live in the past or live in the future".
Good for you!
 
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nimo_cn

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Well, i think i made a mistake by claiming that India is having land disputes with all its neighbors.

In fact, India is having no land dispute with any of its neighbors. Kashmir belongs to Pakistan, South Tibet belongs to China.

Now that there is no land dispute, everyone should feel happy.
 

Agantrope

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Well, i think i made a mistake by claiming that India is having land disputes with all its neighbors.

In fact, India is having no land dispute with any of its neighbors. Kashmir belongs to Pakistan, South Tibet belongs to China.

Now that there is no land dispute, everyone should feel happy.
If you want me to start a pissing competition then i would be honour when on the Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh topics.

LOL, you people genocided the Tibetian and now claiming the so-called south tibet. the western neighbour's begging land of your so called Aksai Chin is in your pocket. Uighurs land was forcibly occupied. LOL!!! What else can i tell......

The day is not so far india would start issuing the stapled visa's for tibet. I mean not too far, just one more provocation.
 

Oracle

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Well, i think i made a mistake by claiming that India is having land disputes with all its neighbors.

In fact, India is having no land dispute with any of its neighbors. Kashmir belongs to Pakistan, South Tibet belongs to China.

Now that there is no land dispute, everyone should feel happy.
Try and walk the talk. This ain't 1962. The kick on the arse will be more than the 1 gigawatt plant you guys are throwing into Pakistan's begging bowl.
 

nimo_cn

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Try and walk the talk. This ain't 1962. The kick on the arse will be more than the 1 gigawatt plant you guys are throwing into Pakistan's begging bowl.
Why not remind your compatriot of this? He seems to be the one who forgets this is 2010 and always digs up old stuff to feed you guys.

I am pretty aware that it is 2010 now, that is why i suggest someone "live in the present".
 

nimo_cn

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If you want me to start a pissing competition then i would be honour when on the Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh topics.

LOL, you people genocided the Tibetian and now claiming the so-called south tibet. the western neighbour's begging land of your so called Aksai Chin is in your pocket. Uighurs land was forcibly occupied. LOL!!! What else can i tell......

The day is not so far india would start issuing the stapled visa's for tibet. I mean not too far, just one more provocation.
I am looking forward to that day. I hope that day comes sooner. But before India has the gut to do that, you better shut up.

And i can assure you, when that day comes, i will response to that without a single complaint. On the contrary, i will compliment India for regaining its manhood.

I really hope it is not that far as you put it. India, please don't let me down, more importantly, don't let your citizens down.
 

ajtr

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now i think Andhra pradesh became disputed for china because to pakistan's clain on old nizam's hyderabad....=heheh ......will GOI deny visa to Premier Wen Jiabao i dont think so coz GOI dont 've spine itself.:happy_2:

China denies visa to AP delegation


HYDERABAD: In a surprising move, China has denied visa to a top-level team from Andhra Pradesh led by industries minister Kanna Lakshminarayana. The delegation was aiming to promote Andhra Pradesh as an investment destination in that country. "No specific reason was given for the visa denial," a top AP government source told TOI. "We're aghast. We're taking up the matter with the Centre," he added.

The Chinese have consistently refused visas to residents of Arunachal Pradesh , claiming the state is part of China. The team comprising minister Lakshminarayana; principal secretary (food processing) JC Sharma; industries commissioner Karikal Valaven; and, MD of AP State Financial corporation Vikas Raj, finally left for Hong Kong, South Korea, Indonesia and Singapore for exploring investment.

According to an MEA source, the AP government officials were in touch with Indian embassy in Beijing which must have completed the paperwork. "Since a minister was involved, the Chinese government should not have rejected the visas," the source added. As per original schedule, the AP team was to visit Beijing and Hong Kong once Chinese visas were given. After the denial of the visa, the team left Hyderabad on October 24 and is scheduled to return on November 4. "They're now in Bali and will arrive in Singapore on Saturday," said a source.

State officials were surprised. "There's simply no reason for Beijing to deny the visas," said an official. The Chinese government had denied visa to Indian Army General B S Jaswal, posted in Jammu & Kashmir, to visit Beijing in August this year. Jaswal is the general officer, commanding-in-chief, of the Indian Army's northern area command. India has also protested the Chinese government's practice of issuing stapled visas to people of J&K. "But none of this should have come in the way of AP government team led by a minister being denied visa," said a senior official.
 

SHASH2K2

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I am looking forward to that day. I hope that day comes sooner. But before India has the gut to do that, you better shut up.

And i can assure you, when that day comes, i will response to that without a single complaint. On the contrary, i will compliment India for regaining its manhood.

I really hope it is not that far as you put it. India, please don't let me down, more importantly, don't let your citizens down.
If someone is not sleeping around with every girl he can lay his hands onto doesnt mean he is impotent. Its just that he has some decency and is a responsible man. Looks like manhood has completely diffrent meaning in China.

If India want to screw china there are many ways to do it without using military . We can also start raising issue that will make you guys crazier as your CCP is already full of crazy people. If China can transfer nuke and missile technology to rogue nations we can also do . but we donot beleive in hitting under the belt .
 

ajtr

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Another thing is to stamp every Chinese passport needing an Indian visa with the words "Free Tibet". "Communism is the scourge of mankind" and other provocative words in various Indian languages.
:happy_2::emot15::emot112:
 

Oracle

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Why not remind your compatriot of this? He seems to be the one who forgets this is 2010 and always digs up old stuff to feed you guys.
He was merely responding to your rhetorics.

I am pretty aware that it is 2010 now, that is why i suggest someone "live in the present".
We all live in the present my friend. I would request you to go and advise CPC that it's expansionist mindset will not take it anywhere. The days of flying kung-fu and magical swords are long gone.
 

S.A.T.A

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If China had a claim to better,it would have stopped this annual ritual of moaning and whining about Indian occupying its territory and do something more about it.the fact that China still not managed to get the former inmates of the Japanese forcefully run brothel camps during WW2 in China, have their due compensated for service rendered.
 
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Tshering22

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This UPA government is not good for national defence and is only good for trade and softy softy diplomacy. We need someone who can balance both and be aggressively assertive. The last time I saw that was between 1999 and -2004. After that time, even Bangladesh and Nepal have been taking India for a ride; forget China.
 

nimo_cn

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If someone is not sleeping around with every girl he can lay his hands onto doesnt mean he is impotent. Its just that he has some decency and is a responsible man. Looks like manhood has completely diffrent meaning in China.
Crap, India has broken the rules of the game in the first place by accommodating that monk. There is a bottom line when two countries are dealing with each other, which is never interfering with other's internal affairs, and India has crossed that line for 60 years. So you need stop glotifying India's decency and moralizing, there isn't any decency in poking your nose into other's businesses.


If India want to screw china there are many ways to do it without using military . We can also start raising issue that will make you guys crazier as your CCP is already full of crazy people. If China can transfer nuke and missile technology to rogue nations we can also do . but we donot beleive in hitting under the belt .
Since India has so many ways to screw China, why i have saw some many people whining and complaining here?

One of my fellows have pointed out it is just a tit-for-tat move for your duplicity over Tibet and Lama. This is a game everyone is playing, and you started it. Now China is adotping the same trick you have adopted for 60 years, and you ranted like a bunch of spoiled kids?

You want to transfer your mighty nuke and missile technology to Vietnam, Burma, Japan, South Korea, or whatever you want to? Just do it, personally i won't complain. I just hope when China is doing another tit-for-tat move for that, i don't have to bear this noise again.

This is the manhood i was refering to.
 

nimo_cn

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He was merely responding to your rhetorics.


We all live in the present my friend. I would request you to go and advise CPC that it's expansionist mindset will not take it anywhere. The days of flying kung-fu and magical swords are long gone.
What rhetorics? Have i said something about India that happened over 40 years ago? I am merely pointing out the problems exist in present India, so what, you get back to me with the problems existed in China 40 years ago? This is the way you argue with people?

Expansionist mindset? That is something you Indians really need to get rid of. If i am not mistaking, Nehru once wrote an autobiography( i cann't remember the name), in which he put forth the idea of building a country made of all the countries in South Asia, even including Tibet. How greedy you guys are!

I think that is pretty much the reason why India still harbours territorial ambition over Tibet. In 1950 when PLA was liberating Tibet, Nehru even made a plan of sending Indian troops to Tibet.

Therefore, it is safe to say expansionism has been deeply ingrained in the mind of Indians. Again stop moralizing while yourself is so immoral.
 

Ray

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You want to transfer your mighty nuke and missile technology to Vietnam, Burma, Japan, South Korea, or whatever you want to? Just do it, personally i won't complain. I just hope when China is doing another tit-for-tat move for that, i don't have to bear this noise again.
Unlike China, we are not that irresponsible as to transfer nuke tech.

Even if it is essential for strategic reasons, we shall not do what China does/ did.

Balle Balle to you!

And wahun wahun too for effect!
 
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Ray

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LOL, that is what you always do, quote what happened in China almost 40 years ago to comfort your fellows and yourself.

How about the modern China, China in 2010?

There is a saying in China, "活在当下", which loosely translates into "live in the present", meaning people should care more about what is going on now, do not dwell on the past or fantasise about the future too much. That is our philosophy.

As per my observation, what you are good at, as well as some of your fellows, is "live in the past or live in the future".
Good for you!
If you lived in the present, could you justify the annexation of Tibet?

You required some hoary events of history and concocted it to 'justify' your imperialist designs!

But then, you all are worshippers of double talk. You quote history when it suits you and then you trash it, when it is inconvenient!

Are you suggesting that the historical events etched out by your Chairman Mao and the Glorious Communist Party are totally bogus and should be trashed?

Must you be so ungrateful to Chairman Mao, no matter what his quirks were which chalked the Chinese modern history, and claim that he did nothing worthwhile since the present is totally an antithesis of his dream and policies?

I am sure the Chinese Communist party would be delighted to learn that you feel that the Chinese history chalked by the CCP is a whole lot of manure!

if there is a Chinese saying - "live in the present", there is also an English saying that those who forsake history are 'frogs in the well'.
 
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mayfair

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Living in the present? That's rich coming from the citizen of a country which is claiming some atolls long administered by the Japanese under an assumed notion that perhaps in the past one ruler of the Qing dynasty pissed on the rocks at Okinawa or Senkaku, which makes them "Chinese".

Well so the west is justified if they lay claim to the international quarter in Shangai aren't they or perhaps Japanese can stake their claim for the return of Manchukuo..
 

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