New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Which Contender`s Rifle has more chances of winning than others?


  • Total voters
    390

sthf

New Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Messages
2,271
Likes
5,329
Country flag


New 7.62*51 assault rifle is bought off the shelf for SF. I wanna say it's Galil Ace.
Or it could be SCAR which already in service with SG. Remember, as far as the procurement for SFs go, SG lead and the rest follow. Case and point Tavor.
 

Gessler

New Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
2,312
Likes
11,249
Country flag
@Gessler

I think ,I have an Idea of what's going on.My informed guess:

1 A 7.62mm assault rifle would be adopted as standard issue for Indian army.(High chances of galil ace)

2 A 5.56mm carbine most probably m4 or galil ace would be adopted by the army.

3 A 7.62mm LMG will be procured.

4 7.62x39 would be adopted by CAPF(itbp,crpf,Bsf) +50% chances for RR.
So I was right when I speculated elsewhere that the Army might be making a big jump toward 7.62 Nato caliber, largely ditching the existing 5.56 Nato. I have mixed feelings about such a change.

However, now we can put the OFB 7.62 LMG development into perspective. This is an excerpt from a post I made on other forums -

++

1) It's also entirely possible that a decision has been taken to equip the entire RR with modern x51 rifles and dump the x39 Kalashnikovs for good. If this is how it is, it means the trials for x39 rifles are only for CAPFs.
2) Yet another possibility is that at least a select few units of the regular infantry will be receiving a mix of 5.56x45 (INSAS-1B1 now, MCIWS in future) and 7.62x51 (whichever is selected now) Nato caliber assault rifles. This would create an obvious ammo division which could have been avoided...but then we also need to look at OFB's development of 7.62x51 LMG (provided that report is correct).

If the 2nd possibility is realized, it could mean the infantry is making a big jump toward the x51 NATO round. Which would be shared by at least 1 type of AR, LMG & DMR. 5.56 will be in use, but in much reduced numbers than now.

++

IMHO a different carbine procurement that too in a different caliber than standard issue would be stupid.Instead of carbine ,they should procure a SBR version of whichever 7.62 Nato rifle is procured to be the standard issue.
I'm all in for maximum commonality in ammo...but even in any modern infantry unit, there are at least two types of ammo in use. One is widely used, the other in limited numbers. Such as in Western militaries where 5.56 in standard for assault rifles, carbines, & LMGs and only Marksmen use the 7.62 rounds. (Also GPMGs, but they are less common).

In our case, it appears 7.62 will be the main caliber and 5.56 could be secondary.

I am surprised by your and others fascination for SLR ,it was good for its time but now IMHO a much better rifle can be made from ground up,with better barrel (design/metallurgy) ,better trigger group,better bolt carrier design,Incorporation of new system to minimize recoil,better muzzle-brake,and a much better furniture overall.You can take inspiration from SLR in parts ,but thinking of incorporating the SLR with a modern furniture does not make sense to me.
The FAL action is what is important, rest all about it can change. Often, getting the action right & reliable is a problem and the FAL is a tried-and-tested design, plus, many of our existing personnel & factories are largely familiar with the SLR.

A proper modernization would mean making the receiver & action out of lighter materials, and adding all that you mentioned above. Such as a quadrail handguard (free-floating barrel is fine), new grips, adjustable stocks, and a dust cover with P-rail. A weapon like that would be nothing to scoff at. In trained hands, it could send many modern rifles packing.



I understand an all-new 7.62x51 rifle based out of MCIWS family will be great to have...but I have little faith in OFB's ability to deliver anything on time and as per spec. I don't mean to diss them, but honestly, the lesser you expect from them, the less disappointed you will be.
 

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
New Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
32,663
Likes
151,106
Country flag
So I was right when I speculated elsewhere that the Army might be making a big jump toward 7.62 Nato caliber, largely ditching the existing 5.56 Nato. I have mixed feelings about such a change.

However, now we can put the OFB 7.62 LMG development into perspective. This is an excerpt from a post I made on other forums -

++

1) It's also entirely possible that a decision has been taken to equip the entire RR with modern x51 rifles and dump the x39 Kalashnikovs for good. If this is how it is, it means the trials for x39 rifles are only for CAPFs.
2) Yet another possibility is that at least a select few units of the regular infantry will be receiving a mix of 5.56x45 (INSAS-1B1 now, MCIWS in future) and 7.62x51 (whichever is selected now) Nato caliber assault rifles. This would create an obvious ammo division which could have been avoided...but then we also need to look at OFB's development of 7.62x51 LMG (provided that report is correct).

If the 2nd possibility is realized, it could mean the infantry is making a big jump toward the x51 NATO round. Which would be shared by at least 1 type of AR, LMG & DMR. 5.56 will be in use, but in much reduced numbers than now.

++



I'm all in for maximum commonality in ammo...but even in any modern infantry unit, there are at least two types of ammo in use. One is widely used, the other in limited numbers. Such as in Western militaries where 5.56 in standard for assault rifles, carbines, & LMGs and only Marksmen use the 7.62 rounds. (Also GPMGs, but they are less common).

In our case, it appears 7.62 will be the main caliber and 5.56 could be secondary.



The FAL action is what is important, rest all about it can change. Often, getting the action right & reliable is a problem and the FAL is a tried-and-tested design, plus, many of our existing personnel & factories are largely familiar with the SLR.

A proper modernization would mean making the receiver & action out of lighter materials, and adding all that you mentioned above. Such as a quadrail handguard (free-floating barrel is fine), new grips, adjustable stocks, and a dust cover with P-rail. A weapon like that would be nothing to scoff at. In trained hands, it could send many modern rifles packing.



I understand an all-new 7.62x51 rifle based out of MCIWS family will be great to have...but I have little faith in OFB's ability to deliver anything on time and as per spec. I don't mean to diss them, but honestly, the lesser you expect from them, the less disappointed you will be.
F.Y.I there is an RFI for 1.8 lakh 7.62 NATO rifles. if all goes well RFP will be issued by Apr 2017. out of which 65000 are to be delivered within 4 months of signing of contract.
 

Shaitan

Zandu Balm all day
New Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
4,654
Likes
8,370
Country flag
Any of these item produce in India or these are all always imported .
They imported in emergency bases, because the IA was too slow for years getting these things. So the brought a special committee to Israel, Russia, etc. to buy off the shelf.
 

Alok Arya

New Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
145
Likes
168
Country flag
They imported in emergency bases, because the IA was too slow for years getting these things. So the brought a special committee to Israel, Russia, etc. to buy off the shelf.
That is I am getting from net that most of these items produced in India or can be manufactured in India after tot . But inadequate budgetary allocation , sluggishness of army , and obcelace of ofb cause this loss of 20,000 coror inr . But after this incidence mod has taken a very bold , and futuristic decision to produce all of ammunition of requirement through pvt industry . India also going to produce ammunition for UAE .
 

Shaitan

Zandu Balm all day
New Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
4,654
Likes
8,370
Country flag
That is I am getting from net that most of these items produced in India or can be manufactured in India after tot . But inadequate budgetary allocation , sluggishness of army , and obcelace of ofb cause this loss of 20,000 coror inr . But after this incidence mod has taken a very bold , and futuristic decision to produce all of ammunition of requirement through pvt industry . India also going to produce ammunition for UAE .

Good, the private sector should've produced ammo years ago. How on earth is a company like Bharat Forge left out from producing ammo? How on earth do you let one entity produce ammo for an armed force the size of India's? How on earth do you trust outside private firms, but not local ones?
 

aditya g

New Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
1,962
Likes
4,651
Country flag
From an urgency perspective imho acquisition of carbine is more urgent than AR or LMG.

Good or bad, existing solutions are in place and upgrades available (Excalibur, tavor and ghatak).

However there is no upgrade possible for sterling. An upgrade here will be useful across the board.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
MSMC cleared its trails and now project is ideal, We have carbine which was intended for replacing older 9mm carbine in Army ..

If its about CT operations with respect to AKM, Ghatak is their and better than other AKMs in Army ..
 

Gessler

New Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
2,312
Likes
11,249
Country flag
MSMC cleared its trails and now project is ideal, We have carbine which was intended for replacing older 9mm carbine in Army ..

If its about CT operations with respect to AKM, Ghatak is their and better than other AKMs in Army ..
Is there a planned replacement for the Browning HP pistols? Logically, a handgun in 5.56x30mm should be developed (shares ammo with JVPC just like FN Five-seveN and P90). If that's not possible...I'd be okay with a SIG P226/228 to replace the HP.

If we think 9x19mm is not good enough, they should give the .40S&W a try.
 

Johny_Baba

अज्ञानी
New Member
Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
3,966
Likes
20,402
Country flag
To be honest,I like Amogh more than MSMC,because its ergonomics is similar to standard-issue 1B1 INSAS or Kalashnikov.

Still,Army might want to get a shorter weapon so MSMC should be adopted as soon as possible to replace those ancient Sterlings.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
Why need to replace browning pistols ?, They are doing fine ..

Induction of a new design put strain on logistics so does training, Unless the requirement is absolute.

Is there a planned replacement for the Browning HP pistols?
 

Vayuputra

New Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
1,506
Likes
6,260
Country flag
Why need to replace browning pistols ?, They are doing fine ..

Induction of a new design put strain on logistics so does training, Unless the requirement is absolute.
I'm not denying the fact this Browning HI Power is very reliable and powerful pistol but it is high time for our troops to opt for double action pistol. Our troops must opt for double action pistol rather than sticking with 1920s designed single action pistol. I don't remember where I read but is it true that army is particular looking for a pistol with rail? If yes, then why on earth would anyone want to put rail on the pistol which is used to engage enemies at 25 mtres?
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
SF need for a different pistol with rails for torch mainly, But it has been dropped ..

If yes, then why on earth would anyone want to put rail on the pistol which is used to engage enemies at 25 mtres?
 

aditya g

New Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
1,962
Likes
4,651
Country flag
Come again - why doesn't the army want amogh? Is it because of length?

To be honest,I like Amogh more than MSMC,because its ergonomics is similar to standard-issue 1B1 INSAS or Kalashnikov.

Still,Army might want to get a shorter weapon so MSMC should be adopted as soon as possible to replace those ancient Sterlings.
 

Articles

Top