New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[Hari Sud]

1.1 million strong Indian army would require the same number of rifles, if not more.

165,000 is one eighth Of the total requirement.

 

[ersakthivel]

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..:: India Strategic ::. Missiles: DRDO strives to become a self-sufficient armament designer for Indian armed forces
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For meeting the present day tactical requirement of the Indian Army with light weight, compact and better fire power small arms, a family of Small Arms in 5.56 mm calibre (INSAS) and its family of ammunition have been developed by DRDO and produced by OFB. The mass produced INSAS rifle, meant to be the main rifle for the Indian Army has been known to malfunction in extreme conditions. In November 2011, the Ministry of Defence issued a tender for 66,000 assault rifles to replace the INSAS. MoD wanted the new rifles to be able to switch calibres between the small, high-velocity 5.56 mm rounds the INSAS fires and the devastatingly powerful 7.62 mm rounds of the older FAL rifles. But DRDO insists that improvements on INSAS are on. It is making the under barrel grenade launcher for Indian Army. 10,000 have been ordered of which 2000 have been already delivered.

"We are designing multi calibre 5.56, 6.8 and 7.62 for Infantry but there is no demand from the army. There is a small arms QR from Army for protective carbines. User trials will begin from December 2013. INSAS team is working on these products. Also corner firing weapon is under development for para military forces by DRDO. Demonstrations in December 2013 and trials next year are on the agenda.

 

[arnabmit]

1.1 million strong Indian army would require the same number of rifles, if not more.

165,000 is one eighth Of the total requirement.

This is the 1st phase. More phases will come later.

 

[ninja85]

Quality control that is like that of China？

Try out this type 95-1 automatic rifle from your northern neighbour：

When it comes to making things， India is years， if not decades， behind China， quality or otherwise。8)

that belgian rifle,

chinese are centuries behind in innovation.

 

[ninja85]

India will alway to improve...improve....improve, like LCA, Arjun, India belong to future!

because india is not copycat like cheap chinese.

 

[ninja85]

Jawans may soon have top-class Italian machine guns - India - DNA

Jawans may soon have top-class Italian machine guns
Published: Friday, Feb 8, 2013, 9:00 IST
By Nirad Mudur | Place: Bangalore | Agency: DNA

The Indian Army is conducting trials of a sophisticated automatic assault rifle, ARX-160, a close quarter battle weapon from the stables of world renowned and one of the oldest small arms company in the world, Beretta of Italy.

Putting behind the recent controversy over the "barrel bulge" experienced by the Border Security Force while using Beretta's MX-4 Storm sub-machineguns, the defence ministry has included the company among a total of four contenders – other three being IWI, Sig and Colt – for choosing 45,000 ARX-160 assault rifles for the jawans of the Indian Army.

Udai Singh, Beretta – India country manager, said the ARX-160 A1 and A2 assault rifles are developed to be the most effective weapons on the battlefield.The rifles are designed to accept multi-calibre cartridges: a magazine of 45 cartridges of 5.56mm (NATO standard) as well as 39 cartridges of 7.62 mm in a magazine (in use among the jawans as with the INSAS rifles).

The rifle's barrel can also be changed from 16-inch to a 12-inch one, depending on the nature of combat planned, besides the weapon can also double as a sniper rifle in urban combat scenarios.

Both versions of the ARX-160, manufactured in Brescia in Italy, are already in use in at least 10 member countries of NATO, he said.

A unique feature of both versions of the assault rifle is that they are ambidextrous – which means safety catches and other features including the empty cartridge ejection chamber is provided on both sides of the rifle. This provides an added benefit that the soldier can choose which side the empties can eject from just before resorting to "corner fire" (firing at a target on the sides without turning the body).

Sources in Beretta informed DNA that the defence ministry is also in talks with the company to procure a specialised sniper rifle from the stables of Sako, a Beretta subsidiary company, ""¦but the talks are still in the initial stages," the source said.

A company spokesperson separately told DNA that Beretta was looking forward to a new beginning with the Indian defence ministry after the "barrel bulge" controversy was amicably resolved after all the 80 MX-4 Storm sub-machine guns, suspected to have the defect, were completely replaced with new ones. The 80 MX-4 weapons were a part of a total of 38,000 delivered to the Border Security Force in May 2012.

"The problem that we refer to as 'barrel bulge' occurs commonly due to defects in the ammunition, not in the weapons," explained the spokesperson. "Especially in an automatic rifle, which has micro grooves inside the barrel, a small defect in the cartridge can lead to the bullet getting stuck within. But as it is a machine gun, the following bullet rams into the stuck one at high velocity and displaces it. But this causes the barrel to bulge a little."

jawas could also get top-class italian PM.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Definitely paid ..

battle weapon from the stables of world renowned and one of the oldest small arms company in the world, Beretta of Italy.

 

[ninja85]

To fill an initial order for 60,000 assault rifles

just 60,000 IA gonna need at least 2 million.

 

[SPIEZ]

Indians requested and now have ToT and rights of production of Tavor. Instead they opt for a new rifle.

This especially after spending 20 million on Tavor. Sure sounds stupid.

Tavor-21 Rifle Headed Into Service With Indian Special Forces

One FIR, Govt blacklists 7 firms, hits artillery upgrade - Indian Express

 

[ALBY]

Indians requested and now have ToT and rights of production of Tavor. Instead they opt for a new rifle.

This especially after spending 20 million on Tavor. Sure sounds stupid.

Tavor-21 Rifle Headed Into Service With Indian Special Forces

One FIR, Govt blacklists 7 firms, hits artillery upgrade - Indian Express

Tavors are very expensiive eventhough highly reliable.Buying or License production may not bring down the prices much as it needs high precisioon,sophisticated machinery and expertise foor production.Tavors are best with S.For regulars weapons of comparatively cheap price but reliable performance should be selected.

 

[ghost]

i just wish that beretta arx 160 win this even if by bribe if corruption helps to get the best for our jawans then corruption is good.And all those who question its reliability should have faith in the standard of western forces as they must have deployed it only after it going through extreme test as their forces are usually engaged just any where in the world which means that it must have gone through all the extreme conditions .even though i have to admit that in my dreams i secretly wish that drdo outdo itself and come up with such a rifle for which others country line up to buy.........eagerly waiting for defence expo 2014 for muh dikhai of f-insas assault rifle.

 

[ghost]

and one more advantage of beretta arx 160 is that add a drum

to beretta arx 160

and you have got yourself a lmg

 

[Damian]

ARX 160 is nothing special, neither is something special use of a drum mag, any modern AR can use such magazine.

 

[ghost]

ARX 160 is nothing special, neither is something special use of a drum mag, any modern AR can use such magazine.

i agree with you it's nothing special

apart of being engineered to be the most ergonomic, ambidextrous, lightweight, accurate, adaptable, and reliable infantry combat weapons in the world because of these features http://arx160.com/PDF/Beretta%20ARX160%20Catalog.pdf

apart of it being used by several special forces around the world which speaks volume about it


apart of the fact that one user of this forum had talked to arde offical who was quoted that among these rifle only arx can full fill the requirement of
F -insas completely

apart of what these weapon expert had to say http://http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/citizen-soldier-beretta-arx-100-review/

Beretta ARX-160 (also written ARX160) Modular Assault Rifle/Carbine/SBR Demo Video and Interview Transcript from SOFIC 2011: Military Special Operations Forces (SOF), Law Enforcement Officers (LEO’s), and Civilian Tactical Shooters Get Tactical

Gun Review: Beretta ARX 160 .22LR (VIDEO) | Alternative

 

[cobra commando]

Equipping Cutting Edge Infantry


Equipping Cutting Edge Infantry » Indian Defence Review

 

[Immanuel]

I think the only Rifle that could possibly full-fill the needs of the IA in all its operational environments is the DRDOs MutiCal weapon, If the basic rather vague design is to be taken as a given and if all the goods of the MSMC and INSAS and FAL are incorporated, we will have the best rifle ever made. No ARX or imported rifle can make up for something made in India. Moreover ARX is a nice rifle but Indian conditions make a laughing stock out of the nicest of rifles.

 

[Damian]

apart of being engineered to be the most ergonomic, ambidextrous, lightweight, accurate, adaptable, and reliable infantry combat weapons in the world because of these features http://arx160.com/PDF/Beretta ARX160 Catalog.pdf

It is neither the most "ergonomic, ambidextrous, lightweight, accurate, adaptable, and reliable infantry combat weapons in the world".

There are more modern and better designs currently nearly in the end of R&D cycle.

For example our MSBS project.

MSBS contrary to ARX 160 is truly modular design, which means you can reconfigure a basic rifle, not only in to several different subvariants, but also you can reconfigure it from classic design in to bullpup if only you have tools and parts.

MSBS is far more logical design (and far more elegant as well). Let's for example take Indian Army which uses both rifles in classic and bullpup configurations. So many different types makes logistics problematic, however MSBS solves this in a simple way. Because both classic and bulpup configuration use common components, logistics are less complicated. So special forces, rear eschelon troops, vehicle crews etc. can use bullpup configuration, and frontline troops can use classic configuration.

Of course MSBS in it's final configuration will be capable to adapt different types of ammunition, from 5,56x45mm, through 7,62x39mm, 7,62x51mm and also probably some other exotic callibers if nececary. In each configuration there will be several variants: carbine, standard assault rifle, LMG, Marksmen rifle etc.

MSBS is also designed such way, to be the not only most ergonomic and ambidextrous small arms system, but also there is requirement to achieve at least the same reliability as AK had.


Here you can learn a bit more about MSBS.

It is weapon system with better perspectives than ARX 160, more capabilities, is far more elegant and compact design.

I also had one of MSBS's in my hands, incredibly ergonomic, also I heard from people that shoot from it, there is really no problems to quickly learn how to accurately shoot from it, and accuracy is also very good.

 

[arnabmit]

For example our MSBS project.

MSBS can be compared to the Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR. Still 1 step behind the ARX-160. Not to mention the ARX-160 is 2-2.5 lb lighter than the MSBS/Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR.

MSBS contrary to ARX 160 is truly modular design, which means you can reconfigure a basic rifle, not only in to several different subvariants, but also you can reconfigure it from classic design in to bullpup if only you have tools and parts.

MSBS is far more logical design (and far more elegant as well). Let's for example take Indian Army which uses both rifles in classic and bullpup configurations. So many different types makes logistics problematic, however MSBS solves this in a simple way. Because both classic and bulpup configuration use common components, logistics are less complicated. So special forces, rear eschelon troops, vehicle crews etc. can use bullpup configuration, and frontline troops can use classic configuration.

MSBS would need to be sent to the armoury to be converted, if at all possible (I am yet to look on the net for this feature). Also it would need new furniture, trigger group, bolt release, firing selector, etc. which means that the armoury would have to build a new gun around maybe just a common barrel, piston and probably bolt.

Of course MSBS in it's final configuration will be capable to adapt different types of ammunition, from 5,56x45mm, through 7,62x39mm, 7,62x51mm and also probably some other exotic callibers if nececary. In each configuration there will be several variants: carbine, standard assault rifle, LMG, Marksmen rifle etc.

So is the ARX-160. 8", 12", 16" & 20" barrels available for different roles in 5.56, 6.8 and 7.62.

MSBS is also designed such way, to be the not only most ergonomic and ambidextrous small arms system, but also there is requirement to achieve at least the same reliability as AK had.


Here you can learn a bit more about MSBS.

for ambi ejection you need tools in the armoury for the MSBS. Same can be done for the ARX-160 in the field with the tip of a FMJ. As for reliability, only time will tell!

Watch this, from 16:50 onwards...

[video=youtube_share;l2bW0vJi83k]http://youtu.be/l2bW0vJi83k[/video]

Also, this...

[video=youtube_share;DEEvh3wYFps]http://youtu.be/DEEvh3wYFps[/video]

Let MSBS achieve that!

However, I do like the ergonomics of the MSBS grande launcher. Might be a but bulkier, but looks more ergonomic than the GLX.

 

[Damian]

MSBS can be compared to the Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR. Still 1 step behind the ARX-160. Not to mention the ARX-160 is 2-2.5 lb lighter than the MSBS/Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR.

No, MSBS is better than Masada/ACR, looks similiar to them, but is much better designed system. ARX 160 is not even comparable in capabilities with MSBS, Italian design have too many unnececary gizmos, making it more complicated and expensive. As for weight, assault rifle can't be too light or too heavy.

MSBS would need to be sent to the armoury to be converted, if at all possible (I am yet to look on the net for this feature). Also it would need new furniture, trigger group, bolt release, firing selector, etc. which means that the armoury would have to build a new gun around maybe just a common barrel, piston and probably bolt.

No, MSBS can be converted with use of a standard tools each soldier have + modules that can be provided in boxes via logistics. You do not need armory to reconfigure MSBS from standard to bullpup.

Also upper receiver is common between standard and bullpup, what you need is only different lower and hand guard.

So is the ARX-160. 8" to 20" barrels available for different roles in 5.56, 6.8 and 7.62.

ARX 160 is not trully modular.

for ambi ejection you need tools in the armoury for the MSBS. Same can be done for the ARX-160 in the field with the tip of a FMJ. As for reliability, only time will tell!

No armory tools are needed for MSBS, everything can be done in a field by use of standard tools provided with rifle to soldiers.

As for reliability, currently even lab tests show that MSBS have high reliability, and it is still work in progress, as I said, requirement is to have at least the same reliability as AK, because otherwise our military won't adapt this rifle.

Watch this, from 16:50 onwards...



Also, this...



Let MSBS achieve that!

What should I see here? It is ugly, non elegant design, rifle is too bulky, there is too much funcy stuff.

I don't know, perhaps we Slavs are far more practical than Italians. For us rifle is a tool, it needs to be functional, ergonomic, reliable, accurate, simple and with reasonable cost. I do not need so many impractical as ARX 160 offers.

Also ergonomics of ARX 160 are poorer, just look at the stock, MSBS stock is far more ergonomic with adjustable cheek pad. Also charging handle is non recuperating, while still can act as forward assist, as far as I see, ARX 160 charging handle is directly connected to the bolt so it moves with the bolt, also handle is much smaller, which does not help with ergonomics.

So I completely do not understand all this ARX 160 fanboyism, when from objective point of view, this rifle does not offers more than any other modern assault rifle.

 

[ghost]

Damian msbs sure seem to be a very promising especially it's feature to be able to convert from classic to bullpup design if it really can .having said that it seems that you have not gone through what i or arnabmit has provided this i say so after reading some of your comment on arx 160 ergomics ,weight and other issue everyone who has used it state that it feel much lighter in real than even its actual weight which is below than msbs .and mind it in battle weight matters for soldier.it even have absolutely no recoil and other features if you would go through them.if msbs outdo arx i would be the first one to appreciate it but till than you should not compare someone who is alive and kicking in the field to someone who is yet to be born.so don't mind but arx rock.........