New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[Kunal Biswas]

Double post..

deleted..

 

[AJ-47]

Indian Army dont want to get another gun coz we not only use AK but also Insas, Insas is used coz its very accurate and longer range coz of its 5.56mm OFB round ( Heavier than SS109 ) also SS109, Now the Problem is a Single unit using two different guns and both guns need different spare ( gas tube, receiver, magazine and many more ) and this increase logistic chain, to reduce this Indian army looking for a Rifle which can adopt two different rounds with minimum changes done to them, this reduce logistic issue with spares..

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LWRC International 6.8mm PSD sub-carbine

The Firearm Blog � LWRC rifles to be license-produced in Jordan

Thanks for that.
So now IA will get the 3rd rifle to get rid of the other two. That's ok but I would give the other group, which is probably small in numbers, a different gun and keep it all simple.
The LWRC is a good rifle and the Jordanian has a good army, will see how he will do in the US competition for the new rifle.

 

[AJ-47]

My mistake sorry

Scar use the 7.62x51mm NATO

Where as IA want 7.62x39mm 1943 Soviet

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

how long is the actual bullet alone ? is it as long as the shell/case ?

 

[W.G.Ewald]

how long is the actual bullet alone ? is it as long as the shell/case ?

Bullet would extend to the shoulder of the case, I think.

If you want to find drawings of bullets with their dimensions, a good reference is the Speer Reloading Manual.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/reloading_manual/default.aspx

 

[cloud_9]

Phasing Out of Insas Rifle​

The INSAS rifle is planned to be replaced by the new Assault rifle. The INSAS rifle has been in use since 1994-95. Over the years, technological development has created other more superior rifles such as the Assault.

The Ministry is in the process of procuring Assault Rifles through global route with transfer of technology to Ordnance Factory Board. The Request for Proposal was issued in November, 2011. Technical evaluation of the bids is in progress.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shrimati Jaya Bachchan in Rajya Sabha today.

 

[Shirman]

In my Personal Opinion the rifles to be phased out should be Browning-Sterling SMGs, INSAS, Colt M-16s (Procured in 1980s) and Colt M-4s as it Jams like hell and not reliable at all. I've personally seen CRPF guys sweating like hell with m-4's non-reliability issues Some even thought and said the amereekis must have given us defective pieces purposely through FMS route. Hence they nick name it "Hollywood Gun"(As it only looks and performs good in western movies). Iranians and Pakis use Norinco make M-4/ Modified AR-15 as it is cheaper easily available and actually performs better than Colt made variant (Ask Pakis and they will agree) lol . INSAS is a great rifle with better accuracy compared to M-4 but Very Heavy and old design (1970s-1990s)with same M-4 NATO round. Hence i voted for TAR-21/ X-95 as it is already in service with the special forces and can be easily adopted for 5.45*45 and 9mm configuration with 5.45*39mm as a bonus. But on a side note hear at CRPF firing range i've seen 2002 IMI labelled Micro Tavors have a greater ammo burst and superior rapid fire compared to newly acquired 2012 batched Beretta MX-4 Storms. Hence MX-4s have lot in common with MP-5s with some what better select fire capibility with same rounds.

 

[bhramos]

Army to get new assault rifles, junk INSAS - The Times of India

 

[Snuggy321]

In my Personal Opinion the rifles to be phased out should be Browning-Sterling SMGs, INSAS, Colt M-16s (Procured in 1980s) and Colt M-4s as it Jams like hell and not reliable at all. I've personally seen CRPF guys sweating like hell with m-4's non-reliability issues Some even thought and said the amereekis must have given us defective pieces purposely through FMS route. Hence they nick name it "Hollywood Gun"(As it only looks and performs good in western movies). Iranians and Pakis use Norinco make M-4/ Modified AR-15 as it is cheaper easily available and actually performs better than Colt made variant (Ask Pakis and they will agree) lol . INSAS is a great rifle with better accuracy compared to M-4 but Very Heavy and old design (1970s-1990s)with same M-4 NATO round. Hence i voted for TAR-21/ X-95 as it is already in service with the special forces and can be easily adopted for 5.45*45 and 9mm configuration with 5.45*39mm as a bonus. But on a side note hear at CRPF firing range i've seen 2002 IMI labelled Micro Tavors have a greater ammo burst and superior rapid fire compared to newly acquired 2012 batched Beretta MX-4 Storms. Hence MX-4s have lot in common with MP-5s with some what better select fire capibility with same rounds.

CRPF uses M4s??? thats new to me

 

[Shirman]

CRPF uses M4s??? thats new to me

Yes They do and also Mumbai Police along with MP-5s, Mini UZIs, Steyr TMP and Glocks. Force One Mumbai police commandos, NSG (Western command) although they use mostly MP-5s and Glocks. Forget CRPF if you want to see nice potbelly Hawaldar (Pandu as we mumbaikars affectionately call them) with M4 assault rifles then u should head to Mantralaya in South Mumbai they r permanently stationed there. IF UR lucky then u could also see them performing live demo in the form of mock anti-terror drill with Mahindra Marksman, Gypsys etc at some local mall, 5 star hotel etc. The Firing Range where all of them Practice is called as CRPF firing range.

 

[Snuggy321]

Yes They do and also Mumbai Police along with MP-5s, Mini UZIs, Steyr TMP and Glocks. Force One Mumbai police commandos, NSG (Western command) although they use mostly MP-5s and Glocks. Forget CRPF if you want to see nice potbelly Hawaldar (Pandu as we mumbaikars affectionately call them) with M4 assault rifles then u should head to Mantralaya in South Mumbai they r permanently stationed there. IF UR lucky then u could also see them performing live demo in the form of mock anti-terror drill with Mahindra Marksman, Gypsys etc at some local mall, 5 star hotel etc. The Firing Range where all of them Practice is called as CRPF firing range.

I know that many police forces use M4 rifles these day but CRPF was a new thing to me. Would be nice if you can post some pics

 

[sasi]

Colt multi-caliber

 

[sayareakd]

Re-arming the Indian Army's troops with lethal, modern weapons
Written by Nitin Gokhale | Updated: November 28, 2012 14:41 IST

New Delhi: The Indian Infantry - that hard working, non-complaining arm of the Army - is at last likely to get the attention it deserves, if plans envisaged by Army Chief General Bikram Singh and the Directorate of Infantry fructify in the next couple of years.

Starting 2014, several basic weapons used by the 350-odd infantry battalions are likely to be replaced by a new and more lethal ones. So the assault rifle, the carbine, the light machine gun (LMG), the sniper rifle and even the anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) - essentials in an infantry battalion - all are set to be replaced over the next five years. Many of these weapons, currently used by the troops are of 1960s vintage. The Dragunov sniper rifle, for instance. Or the ATGMs which are on second generation variety.

To begin with, the current mix of 7.62 self-loading rifle and the 5.56 INSAS rifle used by some battalions is likely to be replaced by a new double barrel rifle complete with a conversion kit which will enable the troops to make dual use.

"When an infantry battalion is deployed in counter-insurgency, counter-terrorism (CI-CT) role , it will have the option to use the 7.62 mm barrel but when it gets posted to a peace station, the 7.62 mm barrel can be mothballed in field stores and the same rifle can then be converted to 5.56 mm bore."

Each infantry battalion in the Indian Army normally holds about 494 pieces of the basic rifles. In the first phase, 120-odd battalions deployed in CI-CT role under Northern and Eastern Command will get these rifles by mid-2014. In phase II, transfer of technology will be ensured and the production will then be taken up by India's Ordnance Factory Board (OFB).

Well-known gun brands like Colt and Beretta are among five or six companies competing for the big tender of 60,000 assault rifles estimated to cost Rs. 5,000 crore at current prices. According to Army Headquarters, field trials are currently on and are expected to go on till mid-2013 before a winner emerges.

The current version of the LMGs - 45 in each battalion - are of 5.56 mm bore and are bulky at 6.23 kg. The Army plans to replace them with much lighter and more lethal ones with longer range and 7.62x51 mm bore. The general staff qualitative requirements (GSQR) for the new LMGs are being worked out currently, according to informed sources in the Army HQ.

Procurement of third generation ATGMs worth about Rs. 2,000 crore is being given priority since the current lot of eight launchers to each battalion is of much older vintage. The Army wants to graduate from the Milan ATGMs (which has a semi-automatic command line of sight) to a third generation ATGM which will be an 'automatic command line of sight' ability. In other words, it will have the "fire and forget" mechanism. Trials are currently on for this version of ATGMs in the western sector where they would be initially deployed given that tank warfare will dominate any conflict in this area.

The other big procurement on the anvil is the induction of the new generation carbine. India has plans to procure over 43,000 carbines at a cost of over Rs. 3,200 crore. Each infantry battalion currently holds an inventory of about 230 carbines. While trials are on, the first induction of the newer generation of carbines is likely to take place in 2014.

Sources in the Army HQ say Army Chief General Bikram Singh, an infantry officer himself, is keen that the foot soldiers in the forefront of CI-CT and conventional operations, get the best of weaponry to match their undoubted courage and commitment.

Re-arming the Indian Army's troops with lethal, modern weapons | NDTV.com

 

[sayareakd]

60,000 assault rifles estimated to cost 5,000 crore at current prices.

60 rifles for 5 crore means 12 lacs per rifle.

India has plans to procure over 43,000 carbines at a cost of over 3,200 crore.

13.43 lacs per Carbine

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I hate uneducated journalist so call self proclaim experts Judging rifles..

Just write the needed info, People will read and respect for your honesty..

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

what about the multi-caliber rifle which the arde was about to produce by 2012.

 

[sayareakd]

I hate uneducated journalist so call self proclaim experts Judging rifles..

Just write the needed info, People will read and respect for your honesty..

yeah sir lot of mis reporting going on and it is more like contest to report in hurry without understanding what they are posting.

 

[arnabmit]

An out of the box uneducated idea... might be utterly idiotic!

Why cant we go with a standard H&K AR15 lower receiver and use as many types of upper receivers as the situation demands?

Eg:
H&K 416 for 5.56
H&K 417 for 7.62
H&K AG-C/GLM UBGL
Tactilite T1/T2 .416 Barrett sniper upper
even a squad support machine gun...

 

[arnabmit]

By the squad support machine gun I meant something like the H&K M27 upper receiver.

Please comment...

An out of the box uneducated idea... might be utterly idiotic!

Why cant we go with a standard H&K AR15 lower receiver and use as many types of upper receivers as the situation demands?

Eg:
H&K 416 for 5.56
H&K 417 for 7.62
H&K AG-C/GLM UBGL
Tactilite T1/T2 .416 Barrett sniper upper
even a squad support machine gun...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Multi-cal concept is mostly around elimination of loge-tic chain cause by different variation of Rifle used by single unit..

If LMG so does Marksman Rifle share same parts like INSAS Rifle & INSAS LMG is better and even better if the Marksman Rifle..