New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[ezsasa]

That was my thought too but 32 is such a small number it's very odd.

It probably means 32 members are core operators of NASAMS system.

 

[AbRaj]

@Unknowncommando 2 and other do we have picture of recently acquire Sig and Scorpions with our boys. Never seen till date

 

[AbRaj]

Some points I would like to discuss;
The acquisition of small firearms is getting crazy like IAF process, may be a logistic nightmare at the horizon.
a) Assault Rifle : AK 203 plain vanilla model
b) Carbine: Caracal
c) DMR: Sig Sauer
d) LMG: Negev
Now why not a single set of family weapons is inducted, afaik AK200 series provides for carbine,assault rifle, SAW etc. Having a single set of weapons improves logistic commonality, reduce production cost through economies of scale etc.

Second point wrt AK-203 plain vanilla models. For COIN troops or combat troops the AK 203 with all the gadgets makes sense but the logistic fellows etc can do decent job with the plain vanilla model. Save lots of unnecesary expenditure to give the gadgets etc.

Lol its like buying a dozen of lorries by a transporter each requiring different fuel to operate. Only Indians and Egyptian can have such genius ideas.

Btw we are not far away when each infantry will be requiring a dozens of supply lines just for ammunition . Our army procurement instead of getting better and simpler, are becoming like a poor joke. Its not that they have some super weapons. We are doing it with WW2 era equipment like A cheap copy of SLR aka INSAS ,AK’s and dozens of other USSR era stuff.

 

[AbRaj]

It's part of the NASAMS deal. Pretty sure they're for the ground security element of the launchers and GCS. Americans like to bundle together all required items like that, so it's a comprehensive package.

Pakis call is “package" lol........

 

[Kchontha]

Any pic of Sig n sniper on Indian hand!?

 

[WolfPack86]

AK-203 assault rifle for Indian army.

 

[WolfPack86]

Recent additions in India's AK type rifles collection All 7.62×39mm (1) Indian Ordinance Factory Board Assault Rifle GHAATAK (2) Indo-Russia Rifles Private Limited AK-203 (3) Bulgarian Arsenal AR-M5F41

 

[Vayuputra]

Recent additions in India's AK type rifles collection All 7.62×39mm (1) Indian Ordinance Factory Board Assault Rifle GHAATAK (2) Indo-Russia Rifles Private Limited AK-203 (3) Bulgarian Arsenal AR-M5F41

Basically, we ate buying g AK 103 at AK 203 price, they must have gotten good kickbacks

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Basically, we ate buying g AK 103 at AK 203 price, they must have gotten good kickbacks

Not really,except stock everything good about ak-203 is incorporated in indian version.2 rails are enough for general issue mass version.1100 dollars is overpriced but includes factory setup price as well as tech transfer,not off the shelf.Russians fleeced us a bit no doubt,but not sure how much.

 

[WolfPack86]

Punj Lloyd Raksha System Stall at Police Expo 2020, Gurugram From Left to Right X95 Rifle C-TAR 21 Rifle NEGEV Light Machine Gun GALATZ Sniper Rifle GALIL ACE 53

 

[WolfPack86]

After LMGs, Indian Army will soon get close-quarter-battle carbines
With the deal for the Light Machine Guns (LMG) in place, the Indian Army is now waiting for the close-quarter-battle carbines (CQB). “A decision is expected by later this month. It is now close to fifteen months since the UAE based Caracal Company was declared L1 after extensive trials for a $ 553.33 million. The Oversight Committee has already submitted its report the Ministry of Defence (MoD),” confirmed a senior officer on condition of anonymity.

The CQBs for the infantry army of the Indian army is coming through the Fast Track Procurement (FTP), just like the LMGs. The Indian Army is looking to buy 93,895 CQBs in an effort to modernize its infantry. However, the deal has not been finalized with the UAE based company.

Despite meeting all the specifications as well as the requirements mentioned in the request for proposal (RFP), and giving detailed responses to the MoD, final decision has not been taken yet.


After being declared as L1, UAE based Caracal has already been through the Commercial Negotiating Committee (CNC), and has completed the Acceptance Test Procedure report, along with other documents has been submitted to the MoD.

The Company is NATO compliant and has been supplying these CQBs to other armed forces across the globe. The trials for the India market were extensive in nature and had been carried out in India as well the home country of the companies who had bid for this order. The tests were carried out with Indian ammunition in different terrain.

Since the deal will be under the FTP, within one year of the inking of the contract he deliveries will start. There is an urgent requirement for seven lakh CQBs, which is why these will come through the FTP.
https://www.defencenews.in/article/...soon-get-close-quarter-battle-carbines-809868

 

[Flying Dagger]

We should have gone the Sig route for Carbine LMG and Assault all 3 ..

It's not just the production of firing round but training , maintenance etc which would have been eased if we had one company to deal with.

We would have asked them to work with a private player to produce them in India.. and at the end develop a quality production industry in small firearms.

SIG SAUER can provide single-source manufacturing for ammunition, weapons and accessories just like they are doing for USA army. We could have even tested their 6.8 mm round .

And If not sig then caracal for assault and carbine.. and get license to produce them over here...

But it's look like russian Israeli American all three are kept happy by the army and gov. In any case all are good weapons system and the caracal carbine.. too which will be in, I guess.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

We should have gone the Sig route for Carbine LMG and Assault all 3 ..

It's not just the production of firing round but training , maintenance etc which would have been eased if we had one company to deal with.

We would have asked them to work with a private player to produce them in India.. and at the end develop a quality production industry in small firearms.

SIG SAUER can provide single-source manufacturing for ammunition, weapons and accessories just like they are doing for USA army. We could have even tested their 6.8 mm round .

And If not sig then caracal for assault and carbine.. and get license to produce them over here...

But it's look like russian Israeli American all three are kept happy by the army and gov. In any case all are good weapons system and the caracal carbine.. too which will be in, I guess.

True. Instead of Caracal Car 816 we should have went with Sig Sauer 516. One source company eases the supply chain.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

SIG & NEGEV N7, no indigenous Manufacturing and no TOT.

 

[ezsasa]

SIG & NEGEV N7, no indigenous Manufacturing and no TOT.

Punj Lloyd Raksha Systems will produce X95 possibly X95L varriant, Negev LMG and Tavor TAR-21 in JV with IWI, source Fire Arm Blog

 

[vampyrbladez]

After LMGs, Indian Army will soon get close-quarter-battle carbines
With the deal for the Light Machine Guns (LMG) in place, the Indian Army is now waiting for the close-quarter-battle carbines (CQB). “A decision is expected by later this month. It is now close to fifteen months since the UAE based Caracal Company was declared L1 after extensive trials for a $ 553.33 million. The Oversight Committee has already submitted its report the Ministry of Defence (MoD),” confirmed a senior officer on condition of anonymity.

The CQBs for the infantry army of the Indian army is coming through the Fast Track Procurement (FTP), just like the LMGs. The Indian Army is looking to buy 93,895 CQBs in an effort to modernize its infantry. However, the deal has not been finalized with the UAE based company.

Despite meeting all the specifications as well as the requirements mentioned in the request for proposal (RFP), and giving detailed responses to the MoD, final decision has not been taken yet.


After being declared as L1, UAE based Caracal has already been through the Commercial Negotiating Committee (CNC), and has completed the Acceptance Test Procedure report, along with other documents has been submitted to the MoD.

The Company is NATO compliant and has been supplying these CQBs to other armed forces across the globe. The trials for the India market were extensive in nature and had been carried out in India as well the home country of the companies who had bid for this order. The tests were carried out with Indian ammunition in different terrain.

Since the deal will be under the FTP, within one year of the inking of the contract he deliveries will start. There is an urgent requirement for seven lakh CQBs, which is why these will come through the FTP.
https://www.defencenews.in/article/...soon-get-close-quarter-battle-carbines-809868

The guns should cost $ 107 million @ $ 1150 per gun. Why is this deal for $ 553.33 million @ $5889 per gun?

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Army to place orders for Caracal’s CAR 816 close-quarter carbine soon
According to the latest media reports, the Indian Army is all set to place orders for Caracal’s CAR 816 close-quarter carbine with AE arms firm Caracal in coming weeks, after it recently inked a deal for 16,479 state-of-the-art Negev Light Machine Guns (LMG) with an Israeli firm for front line troops. UAE arms firm Caracal was declared ‘L1’ in a bid for 93,895 carbines worth $ 553.33 million in 2018. The new carbine will replace the 9 mm Sterling carbines which are being gradually phased out. Caracal has to start supplies and conclude deliveries within one year of the inking of the contract. Caracal carbine is based on the AR-15 lightweight semi-automatic rifle. the rifle weighs 3.4 kg, and uses the 5.56 x 45mm NATO cartridge, and has a firing rate of 750–950 rpm. The 5.56 has a much higher bullet velocity and performs as well as the 7.62mm round used in the AK-series of assault rifles. Since it’s much lighter than the 7.62 or the currently-used Sterling 9mm weapons, it will lighten the Indian soldier’s load out.
https://idrw.org/indian-army-to-pla...r-816-close-quarter-carbine-soon/#more-223624

 

[abingdonboy]

Good watch

Knew it was designed by a guy from HK that designed the 416, didn’t know he and another guy worked on the 516 and 716 at SIG.

816 is the ultimate evolution of the AR15 design, probably the best rifle on the planet today.


716 and 816 are actually pretty logical choices by the IA then- the best 7.62 and 5.56 NATO rifles money can buy today


But I still have 2 issues

1) what comes next? The 90K 816 aren’t enough for the entire carbine requirement so will there be a repeat order or will they go for an entirely different rifle? INSAS MK1C?

2) what Caracal has done (their history is only about 16 years old and is covered in the first few mins of the vid) could easily have been done in India. It’s not rocket science but instead for the next 20++ years the entire Indian army small arms inventory will be imported which is utterly tragic for a country that will be the 2nd largest economy at that time

 

[vampyrbladez]

But I still have 2 issues

1) what comes next? The 90K 816 aren’t enough for the entire carbine requirement so will there be a repeat order or will they go for an entirely different rifle? INSAS MK1C?

2) what Caracal has done (their history is only about 16 years old and is covered in the first few mins of the vid) could easily have been done in India. It’s not rocket science but instead for the next 20++ years the entire Indian army small arms inventory will be imported which is utterly tragic for a country that will be the 2nd largest economy at that time

My take :

1. The order will meet immediate needs. Future orders could hinge on license production of the CAR 816 in India like South Korea does.

http://www.da-san.co.kr/kor/product001_view.asp?ct1=G01&ct2=G01G01&v_seq=3

2. MKU has a deal with Caracal to produce CAR 817 rifles. Could apply to the entire CAR family of guns.

MKU and EDIC Caracal signed a MoU for strategic co-operation for manufacture of the advanced CAR 817 AR rifles in India at Defexpo 2018 in Chennai. The special gas piston based design of CAR 817 AR makes it more rugged and stable in harsh conditions like mud, sand etc. and its mettle has been proven in the UAE. The Assault Rifle will be manufactured in India at MKU’s proposed facility in Kanpur, Uttar Pradesh under the ‘Make in India’ initiative of the government and will be offered to the Indian Army for their requirements.

https://www.mku.com/PressReleaseDetails.aspx?PR=65

 

[Kchontha]

Stage is all set for a new logistic nightmare for those in the front.