Navy blocks IMD plan for Chinese radar

RPK

Indyakudimahan
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,970
Likes
229
Country flag
Navy blocks IMD plan for Chinese radar - Home - livemint.com

Navy blocks IMD plan for Chinese radar

Commissioning the advanced-technology radar would have meant allowing Chinese personnel on the premises owned and operated by the Indian Navy

New Delhi: The India Meteorological Department (IMD) has been forced to look for indigenous alternatives after the navy, citing security, refused to allow the installation of a China-made radar on its land in Mumbai.

Commissioning the advanced-technology radar would have meant allowing Chinese personnel on the premises owned and operated by the Indian Navy.


Because of the delay in installing the radar, which was to be set up at the Naval Colony in Colaba and primarily used to warn of cloudbursts of the kind that deluged Mumbai in 2005, IMD is in talks with government-owned Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) to install its locally manufactured radars. IMD had rejected the BEL radars last year, saying they were at an experimental stage and not ready for operational forecasts.

IMD bought 12 Doppler weather radars on 30 May from Beijing Metstar Radar Co. Ltd, a 49:51 venture of China National Huayun Technology Development Corp., a wholly owned subsidiary of China Meteorological Administration and US-based Lockheed Martin Corp. IMD is also buying 550 automatic weather stations and 1,350 automatic rain gauge stations as part of a Rs900 crore modernization plan to move into numerical weather prediction, globally used to give precise weather forecasts, as opposed to statistical techniques still being used in India for monsoon forecasts.

A navy spokesperson said the weather radar clearance was still being discussed, but didn’t indicate when a decision was likely. “There are government orders on such kind of installations and when certain companies are involved. It is an important security issue.” Previously too, defence and intelligences agencies have raised objections to the presence of Chinese companies. According to The Indian Express report on 19 May 2003, the Chinese antecedents of Hutchison Port Holdings disqualified the firm from participating in key construction work at a terminal at Mumbai’s Jawaharlal Nehru Port Trust. Mumbai, being a port and a hub of international maritime traffic, is considered especially sensitive by the navy.

IMD chief Ajit Tyagi and ministry of earth sciences (MoES) secretary Shailesh Naik confirmed that the navy hadn’t cleared the radar’s installation and that talks were on with BEL to use their radar instead of the Chinese one. “Security concerns is one of the factors that has led to this delay. We are in talks with BEL to see if we can use their radars,” Tyagi said.

Mint reported on 18 June last year that Beijing Metstar outbid BEL, which develops weather radars based on proprietary technology of the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), and Germany’s Selex Gematronik GmbH, for IMD contract to install the radars in 12 cities and key ports at Mumbai, Delhi, Agartala, Mohanbari, Paradip, Bhopal, Nagpur, Patna, Lucknow, Karaikal, Patiala and Goa. The radars, to be supplied, installed and commissioned by Metstar cost about $17.8 million (around Rs85 crore now).

The Isro radars, say experts, didn’t make the cut as there was a lot of room for improvement in their software. The plan, according to IMD, was to consider Isro radars for the second stage of modernization that would include installing 33 radars in other parts of the country.

“The Isro radars are very good,” said P.S. Goel, former secretary, MoES, who was involved with the tendering process before he retired in 2008. “But the software wasn’t good enough for forecast purposes. So, we told them, then, that the radars would be tested for two years and then considered for evaluation in the second round of acquisition.”

Tyagi said the Isro radars had “improved” and therefore were worthy of being used at Mumbai. He didn’t give a time frame for installing the instrument.

“If it’s a matter of security, the navy’s concerns are nonsense,” said Goel. “There’s no way these radars can be used as bugs or any purpose other than forecasting.”

Doppler weather radars have an edge over other radar systems. The radars the government uses provide information only on the range of a storm whereas a Doppler instrument provides data to accurately estimate an approaching storm’s centre and intensity, fixing its position and predicting its path.

“Now it’s DWRs everywhere. Nobody really uses ordinary weather radars,” Tyagi said.
 

arya

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
3,006
Likes
1,531
Country flag
hi

soo good we are using china radar

open your eyes at least now or it will bw too late

jai hind
 

Vladimir79

Professional
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
1,404
Likes
82
It is better to wait and install Indian radars. Chinese should be shipped back. India has the technology and should not be dependent on China for anything.

jai hind
 

bhramos

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
25,625
Likes
37,233
Country flag
who the hell got these type of ugly and worst idea,
installing a radar which would compromise security and intell of IN activities.
 

Rage

DFI TEAM
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
5,419
Likes
1,001
It is better to wait and install Indian radars. Chinese should be shipped back. India has the technology and should not be dependent on China for anything.

jai hind

ROFL, I can't tell if that was said in jest, sarcasm or seriuseness. :D
 

Koji

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
758
Likes
1
It is better to wait and install Indian radars. Chinese should be shipped back. India has the technology and should not be dependent on China for anything.

jai hind
Uh...if you read the article the Navy clearly says IRSO does not have the software tech necessary. So no, India does not have the technology currently.
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
Uh...if you read the article the Navy clearly says IRSO does not have the software tech necessary. So no, India does not have the technology currently.
If you bother to read the article properly, you will see that the local radar was rejected as it's not operational but experimental. It doesn't mean we don't have the tech. It says in the second phase, indian radars were to be used.
 

bhramos

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
25,625
Likes
37,233
Country flag
even if we dont had , cant Russia or France or Israel could have been helped!
 

Koji

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
758
Likes
1
If you bother to read the article properly, you will see that the local radar was rejected as it's not operational but experimental. It doesn't mean we don't have the tech. It says in the second phase, indian radars were to be used.
Semantics. Then I correct my statement and say that India has the technology, but it is not good enough yet for implementation, as clearly noted by the navy.


So for the next few years: Indians in the Mumbai region should always just carry their umbrellas! Lol
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
Software issues. It will be resolved.
 

bhramos

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
25,625
Likes
37,233
Country flag
u are almost half correct kojji,
ISRO doesnt have the software, but the BEL is developing it, it was rejected,
means we that tech, but not mature enough.
 

Rage

DFI TEAM
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
5,419
Likes
1,001
Uh...if you read the article the Navy clearly says IRSO does not have the software tech necessary. So no, India does not have the technology currently.

Ughh...No. If you read the article carefully, it clearly says that the BEL's radars developed under proprietary technology from ISRO and Selex did not make the cut then, at the time of bidding in June, last year. The Meteorological Department [not Navy] also said, last year, that BEL's radars were at an "experimental stage", not that "India does not have the technology". Don't twist the words of the article to your own advantage.


From the article, in excerpt:


Mint reported on 18 June last year that Beijing Metstar outbid BEL, which develops weather radars based on proprietary technology of the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), and Germany’s Selex Gematronik GmbH, for IMD contract to install the radars in 12 cities and key ports at Mumbai, Delhi, Agartala, Mohanbari, Paradip, Bhopal, Nagpur, Patna, Lucknow, Karaikal, Patiala and Goa. The radars, to be supplied, installed and commissioned by Metstar cost about $17.8 million (around Rs85 crore now).

The Isro radars, say experts, didn’t make the cut as there was a lot of room for improvement in their software. The plan, according to IMD, was to consider Isro radars for the second stage of modernization that would include installing 33 radars in other parts of the country.

“The Isro radars are very good,” said P.S. Goel, former secretary, MoES, who was involved with the tendering process before he retired in 2008. “But the software wasn’t good enough for forecast purposes. So, we told them, then, that the radars would be tested for two years and then considered for evaluation in the second round of acquisition.”

Tyagi said the Isro radars had “improved” and therefore were worthy of being used at Mumbai. He didn’t give a time frame for installing the instrument.

Furthermore, the ISRO and the Defence Research and Development Organization have signed an MoU for the installation of two Doppler Weather Radars, the kind of radar in question, in the Himalayas for climate studies.
 

Rage

DFI TEAM
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
5,419
Likes
1,001
Semantics. Then I correct my statement and say that India has the technology, but it is not good enough yet for implementation, as clearly noted by the navy.


So for the next few years: Indians in the Mumbai region should always just carry their umbrellas! Lol

Oh, you think you can be cute eh?

You can take your 'semantics' and rama it up your WAZOOOO.

As for 'umbrellas', let's not even get there:

 

S.A.T.A

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
2,569
Likes
1,560
Considering all that we know about Chinese manufacturing quality,mumbaikar's are probably better off with their umbrella's than depending on the Chinese radars.......cheap and atleast lasts longer.......
 

bhramos

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
25,625
Likes
37,233
Country flag
u are right SATA, IF U need quality just check chinese electronic goods sold in India,
we will get enough to know is are qualityof chinese goods.
 

Vladimir79

Professional
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
1,404
Likes
82
ROFL, I can't tell if that was said in jest, sarcasm or seriuseness. :D
Oh no, I was serious with a little sarcasm directed at an Indian who thinks India should be reliant on China. Chinese electronics are crap even when they use US technologies. Their quality control on a scale of 1-10 is -2. Indo-Italian radars would be much better than Chinese junk. You certainly don't need Chinese technicians snooping around secure Indian Naval facilities.
 

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,000
Likes
2,302
Country flag
I don't know which radar is better, because only experts and users can tell.

What upset me is why can't indian navy reject this deal before the contract was signed?

Maybe india should tell these chinese company: don't bother to bid for it, we'll cancel the deal sooner or later.
 

Koji

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
758
Likes
1
Oh no, I was serious with a little sarcasm directed at an Indian who thinks India should be reliant on China. Chinese electronics are crap even when they use US technologies. Their quality control on a scale of 1-10 is -2. Indo-Italian radars would be much better than Chinese junk. You certainly don't need Chinese technicians snooping around secure Indian Naval facilities.
India already is dependent on Chinese trade. Last time I checked, China was India's largest trading partner.
 

shotgunner

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
173
Likes
2
It is better to wait and install Indian radars. Chinese should be shipped back. India has the technology and should not be dependent on China for anything.

jai hind
Buy a radar = dependent? Anyway, I agree with you, India should be dependent on Russia, or maybe USA, even France. That works.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top