Navneet Kumar's Blog on China

[Yijiuliuer]

I thought you were a ABC.Maybe to a Chinese diversity maybe be nothing to be proud of because you were never born in one.
Now take off your Shanzhai glasses and get the desi ones then you will understand what I'm talking about....

You can very well disagree. Speaking of Shanzhai, do you mean it is copy right rip-off or just cheap stuff with lower quality? either way,
India imported many so called "shanzhai" goods from some country and made this country its no.1 trade partner. shanzhai glasses included. You actually should blame on your own industry why on earth, you even import glass lense and frames, and further blame on importers, why
on earth don't you guys import non shanzhai glasses. That being said, 90% + glasses frame in North America Market is Made in Shanzhailand products.

The ABC issue is intriguing to mention as well, there is no ABC or ABIs per se, they all were melted into American by its hug pot, which actually don't give a beep on diversity.

na·tive [ney-tiv] Show IPA
adjective
1.being the place or environment in which a person was born or a thing came into being: one's native land.
2.belonging to a person by birth or to a thing by nature; inherent: native ability; native grace.
3.belonging by birth to a people regarded as indigenous to a certain place, especially a preliterate people: Native guides accompanied the expedition through the rain forest.
4.of indigenous origin, growth, or production: native pottery.
5.of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the indigenous inhabitants of a place or country: native customs; native dress.


We don't have a common native language,although most North/Central Indian languages are derived from Vedic Sanskrit but South Indian languages are derived from Dravidian...Sanskrit was spoken by the elite ruling class/Philosophers/Educationists/Blah Blah!(cite Norman rule over England).Most of the native languages are as old as Sanskrit itself

PS - How's China's experience of teaching Mandarin to Tibetans and Uyghurs

Good to learn. but how that relates to having a unfied Indian Language "native" to Indian as a unfied nation?

PS, very good experience actually, we made enormous progress before 1982, but then Hu Yaobang stopped the bilingual effort and used monolingual (ethnic group language) to teach, then you find some riots occurred. after Hu were thrown away, things are getting better
more and more bilingual schools are set up and some students speak better putonghua than older Hans.

oh, guess who is singing here:
please don't say you don't like it, it is my favorite song.

 

[cloud_9]

You can very well disagree. Speaking of Shanzhai, do you mean it is copy right rip-off or just cheap stuff with lower quality?

Shanzhai = local= Chinese Perspective
Desi = local = Indian Perspective

The ABC issue is intriguing to mention as well, there is no ABC or ABIs per se, they all were melted into American by its hug pot, which actually don't give a beep on diversity.

Atleast ABC's and CBC's are better at understanding what Diversity.

Good to learn. but how that relates to having a unfied Indian Language "native" to Indian as a unfied nation?

This translates to the fact that we can't have a unified native language until someone shoves it up their @$$ a.k.a Cultural Revolution

 

[Yijiuliuer]

Shanzhai = local= Chinese Perspective
Desi = local = Indian Perspective

Atleast ABC's and CBC's are better at understanding what Diversity.


This translates to the fact that we can't have a unified native language until someone shoves it up their @$$ a.k.a Cultural Revolution

Nah, you are wrong again, they understand how to tell apart political correctness form reality. Even speaking Spanish in classroom is banned.
don't you agree?

 

[Yijiuliuer]

Shanzhai = local= Chinese Perspective
Desi = local = Indian Perspective

Atleast ABC's and CBC's are better at understanding what Diversity.


This translates to the fact that we can't have a unified native language until someone shoves it up their @$$ a.k.a Cultural Revolution

Strongly doubt a culture revolution can do the job, it needs real ones, blood and iron ones. But India is different, if you guys can use non-violent non-cooperation to gain independence, why can't you revive an official language native to all of you people.

Actually I think I might have misled the thread, my original thoughts are if your education has to be done in English, you can very well use the
same facilities to reinstall a non-english formal language. The advantage of it is long term and will change your paradigm.

 

[SATISH]

with 1552 languages and almost 22 major languages you think you can unify Indian languages? F**k even the script of the languages differ totally. It is impossible to unite all this.

If we bring in some language as a single language trust me it will be come a 1971 fiasco of Pakistan.

 

[Yijiuliuer]

with 1552 languages and almost 22 major languages you think you can unify Indian languages? F**k even the script of the languages differ totally. It is impossible to unite all this.

If we bring in some language as a single language trust me it will be come a 1971 fiasco of Pakistan.

Well I never said it is an over night chore, you should at least start working on it. with 1552 lanugages and 22 major ones, English still conquored them all. If english can, why not other ones.

 

[SATISH]

Well I never said it is an over night chore, you should at least start working on it. with 1552 lanugages and 22 major ones, English still conquored them all. If english can, why not other ones.

English is just the official language as it connects people and is easier for us to access western ideas whenever required. So it would be stupidity to look for an Indian language as a common language. The linguistic sentiments in south India runs too high. Why don't you read about the anti-Hindi riots of Tamilnadu in the 60s? Things are too complicated and it might take atleast a 100 years to acheive what you told if started today. And I dont think it is a viable project as a century is a very long time for the ideology to stay intact with it's goal in front.

 

[Yijiuliuer]

English is just the official language as it connects people and is easier for us to access western ideas whenever required. So it would be stupidity to look for an Indian language as a common language. The linguistic sentiments in south India runs too high. Why don't you read about the anti-Hindi riots of Tamilnadu in the 60s? Things are too complicated and it might take atleast a 100 years to acheive what you told if started today. And I dont think it is a viable project as a century is a very long time for the ideology to stay intact with it's goal in front.

It may look effort-taking and pointless to have a common language now, but in a longer run, looking into a larger picture, it will benefit you as a nation.You just said the very reason of the need to have a unified language of your own. .Lacking of common language leads to separation, and most of the time, you have to pay for it with lives and blood. Building up a unified lingua is a smart and profitable investment to guarantee future.If it cannot be hindi, just pick one you both can recognize.

I might have been too idealist or illusionist, but this idea were not invented by me. Many Indian scholars share the same vision, and many are from South.

 

[SATISH]

It may look effort-taking and pointless to have a common language now, but in a longer run, looking into a larger picture, it will benefit you as a nation.You just said the very reason of the need to have a unified language of your own. .Lacking of common language leads to separation, and most of the time, you have to pay for it with lives and blood. Building up a unified lingua is a smart and profitable investment to guarantee future.If it cannot be hindi, just pick one you both can recognize.

I might have been too idealist or illusionist, but this idea were not invented by me. Many Indian scholars share the same vision, and many are from South.

I dont think it is anyway smart...as an Indian I know that pretty sure that every region and every language and every person has his own identity relating to his culture. There are too many things that we Indians take pride about. SO even in the longer run we are going to absorb everything and adapt it to our lifestyle. We have been successful so far.

Why dont you think like this...Instead of thinking India as a nation why dont you think India as a group of people having the same ideology and moving forward with each keeping his own identity?

 

[cloud_9]

Strongly doubt a culture revolution can do the job, it needs real ones, blood and iron ones. But India is different, if you guys can use non-violent non-cooperation to gain independence, why can't you revive an official language native to all of you people.

Like killing in the name of Religion wasn't enough

Actually I think I might have misled the thread, my original thoughts are if your education has to be done in English, you can very well use the
same facilities to reinstall a non-english formal language. The advantage of it is long term and will change your paradigm.

Our education isn't done in English.State Government Schools (with 80% Kids) in different states teach in their native language with addition of English or Hindi until Year 10.After Year 11 most Indians switch over to English.

For e.g I'm from Punjab,if I went to the State Government School.They will teach me in Punjabi and my books/exams will be in Punjabi.Punjabi will be my first language and they will teach me Hindi and English as 2nd and 3rd language.So after after completing Year 10 when I enrol into Year 11 they might teach me in Punjabi but my books/exams will be in English.

 

[Yijiuliuer]

I dont think it is anyway smart...as an Indian I know that pretty sure that every region and every language and every person has his own identity relating to his culture. There are too many things that we Indians take pride about. SO even in the longer run we are going to absorb everything and adapt it to our lifestyle. We have been successful so far.

Why dont you think like this...Instead of thinking India as a nation why dont you think India as a group of people having the same ideology and moving forward with each keeping his own identity?

This is not impossible, but very ineffective and atucally we don't know it will be succesful forever. One thing for sure is in a jungle like our planet earth, slow moving civilizations all dead out.

 

[Yijiuliuer]

Like killing in the name of Religion wasn't enough

Our education isn't done in English.State Government Schools (with 80% Kids) in different states teach in their native language with addition of English or Hindi until Year 10.After Year 11 most Indians switch over to English.

For e.g I'm from Punjab,if I went to the State Government School.They will teach me in Punjabi and my books/exams will be in Punjabi.Punjabi will be my first language and they will teach me Hindi and English as 2nd and 3rd language.So after after completing Year 10 when I enrol into Year 11 they might teach me in Punjabi but my books/exams will be in English.

Even this conversation ended no where, your precious input did have enriched my knowledge pool of india, thank you.

 

[civfanatic]

How would it help the mango man.So you want to bring in Sanskrit instead of English (will only effect Upper middle class and Upper clas) but maybe you need to convince people why they should learn Sanskrit which only the Indians will speak.....

Language determines the way one thinks and views the world. Frankly speaking, an English-speaking Indian is just a dark-skinned Englishman.

Moreover, Sanskrit is much more logically organized than English, and has a virtually limitless vocabulary.

And how many 'mango men' do you know who are fluent in English?

All those citing China as an example should visit China and see how big the complex is about speaking English that too with a American accent

When 1.4 billion Chinese become economically empowered, let's see how many of them will want to speak English.

 

[hit&run]

Should a society unify its language to thrive or should it thrive first to unify its language.

The second one for India (I wouldn't say unify but preserve and promote each), this is what China did, this is what everyone did.

Why I am not say unify, because we do have consensus on it and there are few good reasons for it. Even if we become prosperous we won't be able to.

I can give you a task, a thread and 30 odd pages on this very forum, if you can build consensus within 30 pages on unifying one native language then you will be a moderate of this forum for one year .

 

[Bangalorean]

I can give you a task, a thread and 30 odd pages on this very forum, if you can build consensus within 30 pages on unifying one native language then you will be a moderate of this forum for one year .

Classic.

Chinese are used to uniformity and conformance, and do not understand the concept of diversity. Diversity is actually a beautiful thing as long as the overall feeling of cohesiveness is strong.

 

[cloud_9]

Language determines the way one thinks and views the world. Frankly speaking, an English-speaking Indian is just a dark-skinned Englishman.

I think it depends upon how a person is brought up (environment kind of stuff) and What with the random usage of dark skinned Englishman

Moreover, Sanskrit is much more logically organized than English, and has a virtually limitless vocabulary.

I mean this isn't the kind of thing that will motivate people to learn Sanskrit.

And how many 'mango men' do you know who are fluent in English?

Are we discussing fluency of languages
But I'm pretty sure if a mango man (who's 5 or 10 pass)flies to a foreign land and lands at the airport,he will be able to read a TOILET sign and relieve himself.Can't do it with Sanskrit

When 1.4 billion Chinese become economically empowered, let's see how many of them will want to speak English.

Ganbei!! China Embraces English Language

In the next five years, all state employees younger than 40 will be required to master at least 1,000 English phrases, and all schools will begin teaching English in kindergarten. The government also is funding extensive teacher training programs to find new models for language learning and develop new textbooks.

Lingua franca

An it's not just the Chinese,its the same in Korea and Japan too.







(BRO Tip : Eastern Asia +English +fine clothing = Unlimited @$$ )

 

[Known_Unknown]

It may look effort-taking and pointless to have a common language now, but in a longer run, looking into a larger picture, it will benefit you as a nation.You just said the very reason of the need to have a unified language of your own. .Lacking of common language leads to separation, and most of the time, you have to pay for it with lives and blood. Building up a unified lingua is a smart and profitable investment to guarantee future.If it cannot be hindi, just pick one you both can recognize.

That is too simplistic. A common language doesn't guarantee a unified nation, and neither does having a variety of languages lead to separation in and of itself unless there are other factors that also contribute to conflict. Let me remind you that the US, UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand are five separate nations, though united by a common language. So are most South American countries.

Indians throughout the millenia have been united not by a common language, but by a common religion and cultural ethos. The basis of the unification of the Indian Republic in 1947 was this idea of a civilization stretching back 5000 years, and capable of assimilation of all invaders, whether it be the Turks, Afghans, Greeks and their cultures and languages. Despite close to 800 years of foreign rule, the Indian civilization and its people were able to maintain their identity, retain their culture and at the same time, embrace the best of the outside world.

The historical experience of India has been very different compared to China, hence while Chinese may think that it is imperative to have a common language, stability, strong central rule and homogeneity, Indians have lived together for thousands of years without these luxuries and yet managed to retain their civilization.

 

[Das ka das]

That is too simplistic. A common language doesn't guarantee a unified nation, and neither does having a variety of languages lead to separation in and of itself unless there are other factors that also contribute to conflict. Let me remind you that the US, UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand are five separate nations, though united by a common language. So are most South American countries.

Indians throughout the millenia have been united not by a common language, but by a common religion and cultural ethos. The basis of the unification of the Indian Republic in 1947 was this idea of a civilization stretching back 5000 years, and capable of assimilation of all invaders, whether it be the Turks, Afghans, Greeks and their cultures and languages. Despite close to 800 years of foreign rule, the Indian civilization and its people were able to maintain their identity, retain their culture and at the same time, embrace the best of the outside world.

The historical experience of India has been very different compared to China, hence while Chinese may think that it is imperative to have a common language, stability, strong central rule and homogeneity, Indians have lived together for thousands of years without these luxuries and yet managed to retain their civilization.

How about Sanskrit...even if only the elite and religious classes spoke it.

 

[Known_Unknown]

How about Sanskrit...even if only the elite and religious classes spoke it.

Sanskrit was essentially a liturgical language of the Vedic tradition. Only Brahmins could speak, read and write in Sanskrit. Brahmins form less than 10% of the population, so how could it be a link language? The languages of the common man were apabhramsa languages, derived from Sanskrit or Prakrit, just like today.

 

[Das ka das]

Sanskrit was essentially a liturgical language of the Vedic tradition. Only Brahmins could speak, read and write in Sanskrit. Brahmins form less than 10% of the population, so how could it be a link language? The languages of the common man were apabhramsa languages, derived from Sanskrit or Prakrit, just like today.

By link language I meant a language that is spoken across the land which Sanskrit was. As civfanatic mentioned, how else would a person from the Dravida country (my Avatar) able to communicate with someone from say Varanasi. Similarly English though only spoken by around 15% of Indians is a link language albeit not native.