Naval MRCA contest. Lockheed offers F-35 to IN

[civfanatic]

Common man, as we if don't operate outdated aircraft as of now !! We still use 200 of the 60's vintage Mig 21, Mig 27, the Mig 23 and Mig 25 were also recently retired. Mig 29K production line will also retire in the next decade as the Russians themselves are not interested in it as compared to the SU-33 for its navy.

We are retiring our MiG-21s, and MiG-27s are not vintage. They may not be cutting-edge technology anymore but I would not consider them obsolete.

 

[neo29]

Gorshky already full with Mig 29s, IAC 1 will have mig 29s and LCA naval variant.

IAC 2 is planned to have F-35c, EF, SH-18, gripen and Rafale. Which among the lot is the question. Sh-18 and Rafale among the lot which are proven fighters on carriers.

IAC 2 is planned for 2017-18. Highly doubtful if F-35 will be available for India by then.

Yusufji has rightly pointed out that Russia does seem to side India in the Pak FA project. But that wont stop from Russia selling it to us.

Assuming that f-35c is available for India. Whats the guarantee that the costs will not exceed more than it is already risen costs??? Will US allow us to manufacture it in India??? If yes then will they give ToT???

We are already skeptical of Mig-35 which is not got IOC. How can we trust F-35c just becoz it looks good and boasts of all that features when IOC is still pending ??

 

[Tshering22]

Gorshky already full with Mig 29s, IAC 1 will have mig 29s and LCA naval variant.

IAC 2 is planned to have F-35c, EF, SH-18, gripen and Rafale. Which among the lot is the question. Sh-18 and Rafale among the lot which are proven fighters on carriers.

IAC 2 is planned for 2017-18. Highly doubtful if F-35 will be available for India by then.

Yusufji has rightly pointed out that Russia does seem to side India in the Pak FA project. But that wont stop from Russia selling it to us.

Assuming that f-35c is available for India. Whats the guarantee that the costs will not exceed more than it is already risen costs??? Will US allow us to manufacture it in India??? If yes then will they give ToT???

We are already skeptical of Mig-35 which is not got IOC. How can we trust F-35c just becoz it looks good and boasts of all that features when IOC is still pending ??

There's nothing called proven fighter unless you put the paper specs into a war. F-16s have been used by USAF and IsAF along with TAF and many other well known air forces around the world and have achieved something called "proven" capability. That didn't prevent Pakistan from losing every against us. Proven capability by other countries can only be of help to show the reliability of a fighter and if we take that as a cue, then we should re-start manufacturing MiG-21s with AESA radars on them considering that they've been probably the most manufactured and sold jet fighters around the world and proven many times including in IAF.

Currently, the evaluation trials are the only way to know which fighter lives upto its specs written on paper, and that's being done. So "proven platform" today holds no ground as countries are coming up with newer and newer fighters. I really hope that we're able to get the Naval variant of PAKFA rather than waste money on a fighter with strings. I am not discrediting US products here it is just that we need a certain level of autonomy which can NEVER be compromised. We're an independent nation and not stooges of anyone. As customers, we buy for raw cash and once the fighters are sold, they become our property and the supplier has no right to tell us when, where and against who to use or not use it.

@Godless_Kafir ji:

Technology looks good when it is in the hands of maker since he has full freedom to use as he pleases. But when we acquire it and are restricted with this and that, despite buying it out of pure cash and no economic aid, you'd see the amount of pinch our forces would feel. But by that time, millions of dollars would have gone waste. Instead of we put that money into AMCA and PAKFA, we might have to wait out for maybe 5-8 more years and come up with our own naval variant. Unless and until we try and agree to give it time, we would never be able to come up with anything indigenous.

 

[neo29]

^^^^
When did Pak lost F-16 against us ??? Proven as in that is flying, got an IOC and inducted in any AF.

Mig 21 has only proven to kill pilots and its a 3rd gen fighter. We talking about 4.5 and 5th gen fighter with modern avionics, airframe and weaponry.

 

[anoop_mig25]

The US does support India becoming a "permanent member" of the Security Consul.

can u provide link for it where it specially says that america supports indian as a new permanent country for the expansion of UNSC

Personally, I think the PAK-FA does offer some value and should be a useful counter to the PLAAF in the east. Yet, any Naval Variant would be a extremely costly undertaking and offer less capability than the F-35C.

selling is different form trusting my friend
if america would have really trusted any country then it won`t have came with various military agreement like EULA(or whatever i forget what it is really called) . i even i would sell my stuffs to those whom i do not trust . this is simple and in world its know as a carrying out business

 

[civfanatic]

^^^^
When did Pak lost F-16 against us ??? Proven as in that is flying, got an IOC and inducted in any AF.

Mig 21 has only proven to kill pilots and its a 3rd gen fighter. We talking about 4.5 and 5th gen fighter with modern avionics, airframe and weaponry.

We never shot down any Pakistani F-16s (though our MiG-29s did get a radar lock on some during Kargil), but Soviet MiG-23s did, in 1987. The fact that MiG-23s are generally considered to be inferior to F-16s and yet still managed to win an aerial engagement proves the favorite phrase of Pakistani aviation enuthusiasts: the man in the machine is what really counts (in this case, Soviet pilots were proved superior to Pakistani pilots).

About MiG-21s, they served us very well in 1971, downing a dozen PAF planes while losing only one. The fact that we still had them in our inventory after they had clearly exceeded their lifespan is the fault of our government, not the aircraft.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

About MiG-21s, they served us very well in 1971, downing a dozen PAF planes while losing only one. The fact that we still had them in our inventory after they had clearly exceeded their lifespan is the fault of our government, not the aircraft.

Mig-21 is one of the best flying machine in the world..
Its the only aircraft which is still in production also the most numerious fighter ever produce after WW2..
Indian Mig-21Bisons are one of the best Mig-21s in the world, They were almost invisiable to F-15 radars also carry dreaded R-77 and R-73s..
The only problem is the engine which need to be replaced, Back in time Soviets were giving AL-31 to MIG-27 as well as MIG-21 but the upgrade was halted for unknown reasons..

 

[vikramrana_1812]

India keen on buying britains futuristic aircraft carrier


ShareA futuristic aircraft carrier that India is reported to be keen on buying from Britain is envisaged as a giant guardian of the high seas, capable of travelling thousands of kilometres from home and wreaking massive destruction on enemy targets, experts said Monday.

India has reportedly "lodged a firm expression of interest" in buying one of two huge aircraft carriers that are currently under construction - the largest warships ever built by Britain, and designed to be the most capable aircraft carriers outside the US Navy.

Britain is considering selling the warship to India for two billion pounds under a cost-cutting plan chalked out by its ministry of defence, the Observer reported Sunday quoting senior defence sources.

The two 65,000-tonne ships are being built for the Royal Navy by British Aerospace (BAE) - HMS Queen Elizabeth, on which work began this July will be the first to be rolled out in 2016. And preparatory work has started for the second, the Prince of Wales, due for launch in 2018.

A leading British naval expert told IANS the two warships embody a "huge quantum leap" in terms of technology, reach and power.

"It's all about power projection. The Indian Navy is in the process of expanding its reach as a naval force capable of operating far from its own shores," said Jon Rosamond, editor of the authoritative Jane's Navy International.

"The Indian Navy has been patrolling the Gulf of Aden on an anti-piracy mission, but this ship will increase its reach even further afield," he added.

"It would give India access to the Far East and even the Western Pacific. The aircraft carrier has a life span of 40-50 years, so there has been a lot of speculation. People are talking about the rivalry with China in particular," Rosamond told IANS.

The ships under construction are the result of recommendations that came out of a wide-ranging Strategic Defence Review (SDR) undertaken by the Labour government in 1997 of nearly every weapon system in Britain.

The SDR concluded: "The emphasis is now on increased offensive air power, and an ability to operate the largest possible range of aircraft in the widest possible range of roles."

The warships will be equipped with ski ramp-assisted takeoff at the front, which will suit the Sukhoi strike aircraft that India is buying from Russia, Rosamond said.

"It will be able to carry not only enhanced aircraft, but also more of them," Rosamond said.

Strategic experts said that the anticipated "quantum jump" in Indian naval power would have the backing of the world's major navies.

Latest Defence news: India keen on buying britains futuristic aircraft carrier

 

[Godless-Kafir]

@Godless_Kafir ji:

Technology looks good when it is in the hands of maker since he has full freedom to use as he pleases. But when we acquire it and are restricted with this and that, despite buying it out of pure cash and no economic aid, you'd see the amount of pinch our forces would feel. But by that time, millions of dollars would have gone waste. Instead of we put that money into AMCA and PAKFA, we might have to wait out for maybe 5-8 more years and come up with our own naval variant. Unless and until we try and agree to give it time, we would never be able to come up with anything indigenous.

Well if i am only playing the devils advocate then its worth noteing that the Arjun has taken a phenomenal 32years for Project completion, LCA has taken 26years. So waiting does not seem to mean anything, we need to put our eggs in the right basket. If we are going to buy 126MRCAs from europe then what is wrong with buying the F-35? Although i dont agree it can fill all the rolls because it only carries 2missiles but having stealth capability does give us an edge. May be we can bomb terror training camps in pakistan.

 

[neo29]

We can rather concentrate on UCAV (Aura) than pondering on F-35. It would be cheaper with more payload and can be made into carrier version. Who cares about stealth when you can afford to loose a unmmaned fighter that costs much less.

 

[arnabmit]

So, what happened to N-MRCA?

 

[p2prada]

So, what happened to N-MRCA?

It will happen when it happens. There's plenty of time for the navy to decide what is needed for MRCA. Vishal's design is yet to be frozen anyway.

 

[arnabmit]

So, in limbo since the last 3 yrs, without officially being cancelled?

It will happen when it happens. There's plenty of time for the navy to decide what is needed for MRCA. Vishal's design is yet to be frozen anyway.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

i think F35B is a good option if india is going for LPD or LHD.

 

[ninja85]

 

[ninja85]

Its not possible to send MIG-29K to IAF..

One thing that really disturbs me abt Russians tech is they dont have pure standoff weapons..
In Anti-ship MIG-29K have to remain in thread zone untiIl KH-35 hits its target..
In A2G same problem with all laser and T.V guided stuff..
In A2A MIG-29K is formidable..

Though Only MIG-29K and LCA fits the hangers of INS Vikramaditya..

Now, If Rafale M or F-35c wins than they can be operational on IAC-2&3..

correct f-35 cannot be fit into vikramaditya & iac-1.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

?????????

 

[ninja85]

?????????

o yeah ,that is called LOL,

and it is for the 'buying the f-35'.

 

[p2prada]

So, in limbo since the last 3 yrs, without officially being cancelled?

I don't believe it's in a limbo because they do want new fighters and are guaranteed to buy some Catobar capable versions for Vishal anyway. It depends on a lot of factors starting with what they plan to do with new fighters. Whether they want just the mere tried and tested 4th gen or wait a bit more until the F-35 matures and go for that through either a tender or a govt to govt deal.

Whatever the case I am hoping for a repeat of the MRCA tender happening, so the Navy can best choose what they want and that will give them the experience required to go for a future fighter development with ADA beyond AMCA.

correct f-35 cannot be fit into vikramaditya & iac-1.

It can. One look at the specs, you will notice that the F-35 is smaller than Mig-29 in dimensions.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

o yeah ,that is called LOL,

and it is for the 'buying the f-35'.

whats wrong in buying f35 for lhd or lpd

we are already going for our own lpd or lhd

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20131212/DEFREG03/312120012/India-Construct-4-LPDs