Naval LCA Tejas

[indiandefencefan]

Will naval Tejas be modified to have foldable wings like Mig-29k for carrier operations?

Has not been revealed yet but by looking at the wingspans of each fighters:
Tejas Mk2 Navy: 8.2 meters
Mig 29K: 12 meters
Seeing that the wingspan of the Tejas naval variant is almost 4m shorter its highly unlikely for foldable wings to be needed.

PS: Since the navy has rejected the Tejas for future operations in the Vikrant or Vishal its highly unlikely Naval Tejas will see much further development as HAL would be most likely better off diverting their funds towards the production of Tejas MK1A.

 

[zebra7]

Tejas has stealth quality too.
supersonic speed, delta wing shape, small size, carbon composite
all improve its stealth quality

LOL Brother leave that jignos. Reality Capabilities as per the requirement is the key. For the Pakistani JF17 is their best choise, since they cannot affort any costly fighter jet and have to replaced their ageing old Mirrage 3/5, J7, and Q5 immediately. Except for the new 18 F-16 the other F-16 are also getting older day by day, and nobody was supplying them BVRAAM, nor they had their industrial capability, so in the end they gone for the best bet, aka JF-17 and but their eggs on the Chinese, which was readily happy to supply them, with loans off course, and Chinese had the chance to complete their project Super Sabre with 50% of development by the Pakistani account, and the first customer, and the last but not the least the Chinese AAMs and Supplies produced by the Chinese weapon manufacturer.

India to ask US, Israeli and European companies to bid for AESA Radar tender for LCA Mk 1A

India is set to initiate a major international competition to acquire new age radars for its indigenous combat planes in the coming weeks, the winner of which is likely to gain a strong foothold for future domestic projects.

Sources have told ET that an expression of interest for a new set of AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Mk 1A is set to be floated shortly, with top global aviation firms expected to participate. The government had recently cleared an order for 83 of the LCA Mk 1A jets. The competition would be the largest international contract for AESA radars that are the heart of modern combat jets.

These new radars give much more range and engagement potential to fighters, enabling them to engage targets from a distance without getting detected. AESA radars can track and direct weapons to multiple air and ground targets simultaneously. With India working on an indigenous next generation plane under the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), it is likely that the winning company will have a much larger order book, with the potential number going upwards of 200.

The first Indian Air Force aircraft with AESA radars will be the Jaguar fighter that is being upgraded to the DARIN 3 version. The first Jaguar with the new radar is expected to fly in January. The contract to equip 58 Jaguars with AESA radars had gone to Israel’s ELTA, making it the frontrunner for the LCA Mk 1A project as well. There could, however, also be surprise entries into the Indian competition from the US, with Raytheon, which manufactures the AESA radar for the F/A 18 Super Hornet and the F 16 also showing interest.

While in the past, US firms had limited options to offer to New Delhi, with India now gaining Major Defence Partner status, transfer of sensitive technology and licences have been made easier. The integration of an AESA radar was a key parameter for the Air Force to clear the order for 83 LCA Mk 1A fighters, after years of blocking the indigenous fighter on concerns that it would not be combat worthy. The AESA will give the LCA an edge over similar fighter operating in the region that are equipped with conventional radars.

The LCA project took a minor hit earlier this month when Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanbaannounced that the naval version of the fighter is not suitable for aircraft carrier operations, necessitating an international competition for a new range of combat aircraft.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...es-to-bid-for-tender/articleshow/55949613.cms

He He Our Desi media, Janab that is just the RFI, a standard knowledge gathering exercise, and they are talking about competition.

ADA cannot be seen to be going through a single vendor procurement hence they have to go for a global bid as per DPP but the EL/M-2052 is easily the frontrunner, there is next to no chance it won't be selected.

Hmn.... Like the French Turbomeca story, when the french feels that they are the lone supplier and increases the cost of the Shakti engine, and which force the HAL to go for other suppliers, which force the Frech to land on the ground.

 

[zebra7]

Has not been revealed yet but by looking at the wingspans of each fighters:
Tejas Mk2 Navy: 8.2 meters
Mig 29K: 12 meters
Seeing that the wingspan of the Tejas naval variant is almost 4m shorter its highly unlikely for foldable wings to be needed.

PS: Since the navy has rejected the Tejas for future operations in the Vikrant or Vishal its highly unlikely Naval Tejas will see much further development as HAL would be most likely better off diverting their funds towards the production of Tejas MK1A.

Foldable wing is not the issue with the LCA, rather its single engine construction due to which it don't have the central keel, which the twin engine aircraft have, thus needs to be reinforced to take the load of the arrestal recovery .

I like your approach of coming to the conclusion that the all the future development of the naval LCA have stopped and Navy have rejected it. But answer few of my question.

1. When did Naval LCA been made yet, when F414 engine have been started ariving just now from Dec 2016 from GE. Comander Lamba was reffering to the LCA - Naval MK-1 aka NP-1 and NP-2.

2. It was never new to understand that it was already clear that the LCA in its present form could not flew with the useful load from the carrier, thus LCA MK-2 with F414 engine.

3. India had already ordered 99 F414 what for ??

4. The whole LCA program was to give the country the capability to develop the combat aircraft, and this is the right time, when India could develop the carrier operation capabable aircraft, even if end up with the trainer version for the Navy, so that it will help so much in case of N-AMCA or else.

 

[lcafanboy]

Foldable wing is not the issue with the LCA, rather its single engine construction due to which it don't have the central keel, which the twin engine aircraft have, thus needs to be reinforced to take the load of the arrestal recovery .

I like your approach of coming to the conclusion that the all the future development of the naval LCA have stopped and Navy have rejected it. But answer few of my question.

1. When did Naval LCA been made yet, when F414 engine have been started ariving just now from Dec 2016 from GE. Comander Lamba was reffering to the LCA - Naval MK-1 aka NP-1 and NP-2.

2. It was never new to understand that it was already clear that the LCA in its present form could not flew with the useful load from the carrier, thus LCA MK-2 with F414 engine.

3. India had already ordered 99 F414 what for ??

4. The whole LCA program was to give the country the capability to develop the combat aircraft, and this is the right time, when India could develop the carrier operation capabable aircraft, even if end up with the trainer version for the Navy, so that it will help so much in case of N-AMCA or else.

Naval LCA is cancelled, news will be out soon. Whatever tests are being done are for future aircraft needs and to develop technological know how.

Not a single GE414 engine has arrived till date. Confirmed contract for only 8 GE414 has been signed (maybe used for AMCA), till date no contract has been signed for the remaining 91 engines.

 

[indiandefencefan]

Foldable wing is not the issue with the LCA, rather its single engine construction due to which it don't have the central keel, which the twin engine aircraft have, thus needs to be reinforced to take the load of the arrestal recovery .

I like your approach of coming to the conclusion that the all the future development of the naval LCA have stopped and Navy have rejected it. But answer few of my question.

1. When did Naval LCA been made yet, when F414 engine have been started ariving just now from Dec 2016 from GE. Comander Lamba was reffering to the LCA - Naval MK-1 aka NP-1 and NP-2.

2. It was never new to understand that it was already clear that the LCA in its present form could not flew with the useful load from the carrier, thus LCA MK-2 with F414 engine.

3. India had already ordered 99 F414 what for ??

4. The whole LCA program was to give the country the capability to develop the combat aircraft, and this is the right time, when India could develop the carrier operation capabable aircraft, even if end up with the trainer version for the Navy, so that it will help so much in case of N-AMCA or else.

I understand your concern and if you read my post again I said "highly unlikely".
Nothing is confirmed yet regarding the Naval LCA and the last part of my post are merely my own thoughts.
We will have to wait for official confirmation from ADA and DRDO for anything concrete.
Nevertheless despite the Navy urging DRDO and ADA to continue work on the project I am of the opinion that that not much work will be done on the it due to scarcity of funds.

To answer your questions:
1. The Navy was offered LCA MK1 for use on its carriers which it rejected. Considering the IA is opting for Tejas MK1A it is likely that MK2 development will be halted in favor of AMCA. Again this is my own hypothesis if anyone would like to counter my arguments please do so. Constructive debate is always welcome.
2. Once again with the mass order of 80+ MK1A and a tender for 100+ single engine aircraft I have doubts that the MK2 will ever materialize.
3. Answered by @lcafanboy above.
4. It will most likely end up as a tech demonstrator nothing more. For training we have Mig 29KUB and its simulators.

 

[CuriousBen]

Aired on Oct 7, 2016
http://www.ndtv.com/video/shows/walk-the-talk/walk-the-talk-with-team-tejas-434144

Mr Girish Deodhare
Watch from minutes 20:00 onwards, where he mentions "mastered the take off technologies for NLCA".
His statement now creates doubt , since recently NLCA is rejected by Navy.
Or is the ADA boasting.

Additionally, in the interview its mentioned that that the capabilities of the LCA have not been marketed as the benchmarks set have exceeded ( from 13:00 onwards )

Question : If the tech is mastered then why is the nlca rejected ?
A brief explanation might help here.

 

[flying.modi]

INDIA can be big supplier of weapons by 2030
TEJAS, DHANUSH, BRAHMOS, Helicopters, sea vessels, are in pipeline for export
Tejas is rejected by navy just because of weight but still for air force they are liking it. it could be main jet for air force. for navy it just a matter of engine once we develop kaveri engine this problems will be sorted out.

 

[indiandefencefan]

INDIA can be big supplier of weapons by 2030
TEJAS, DHANUSH, BRAHMOS, Helicopters, sea vessels, are in pipeline for export
Tejas is rejected by navy just because of weight but still for air force they are liking it. it could be main jet for air force. for navy it just a matter of engine once we develop kaveri engine this problems will be sorted out.

It is not just a matter of engines. The LCA Tejas is inherently designed as a Light Fighter and as such no matter what engine you put in the airframe be it GE F414 or the Kaveri, it will not be able to provide the Navy with the range or payload that they require from a carrier based fighter like the current Mig 29K.
The fact that the Navy wants to float a tender for foreign fighters also corroborates my point.
The Navy will not opt for Tejas on the Vikrant and even if Tejas Mk2 is built with better engines remember that the Tejas N is built for STOBAR landings while the Vishal will be built around a CATOBAR/EMALS configuration so no chance there as well.
Sorry mate but the NLCA will most likely remain as a tech demonstrator unless the Navy is arm twisted into accepting it.

 

[indiandefencefan]

Question : If the tech is mastered then why is the nlca rejected ?
A brief explanation might help here.

NLCA was rejected because of it being a single engined light fighter, it cannot provide the Navy with the range and payload they need off a carrier based fighter.

 

[Filtercoffee]

NLCA was rejected because of it being a single engined light fighter, it cannot provide the Navy with the range and payload they need off a carrier based fighter.

The entire system was already approved with DND. I don't think an out right rejection is possible due to Vishal class being CATOBAR as discussed earlier with only nose wheel assembly changed for ops (Indian juggaad). Let's hope for the best now since all the hard work into the program has to show some abysmal result. I think it's done to generate interest in the NLCA.

 

[Flame Thrower]

NLCA was rejected because of it being a single engined light fighter, it cannot provide the Navy with the range and payload they need off a carrier based fighter.

Do you think that IN didn't thought about this....

NLCA was supposed to be a research project and push for home made fighter aircraft

After the first flight they fell in love with NP-1....

IN wanted ADA to continue research on NP and get back with better engine, better payload better avionics in short NLCA mk2.

Now our current navy chief says the same thing I.e., NLCA was not up to the mark. NP 1 & NP 2 are for research not production model for Navy.

NLCA mk2 are to be operated from INS Vishal and that is post 2030.

Don't jump into conclusion that NLCA is done and dusted. It's not done until it's not done, just wait for official confirmation in my view which we may never hear it.

 

[CuriousBen]

NLCA mk2 are to be operated from INS Vishal and that is post 2030.

Don't jump into conclusion that NLCA is done and dusted. It's not done until it's not done, just wait for official confirmation in my view which we may never hear it.

I too hope that NLCA is not done with.

however the skepticism comes about that there is no push towards procuring ge414 engines , nor to have nlca mk2 push nor lca mk2 push.
Kaveri is still in R&D mode and there is no end in sight.

Till 2030, its a long time and nlca will supposedly not wait to augment its career capability.

from 2001 till 2016 its a long patience , another 14 years is not something encouraging .

Sooner ot later the tech will be leaked and the chinese will catch up and the paki's will get hold and we shall lose the tactical advantage.

I hope I am proven wrong , but as much as I sense, its bye bye NLCA from Navy.

 

[CuriousBen]

INDIA can be big supplier of weapons by 2030
..... once we develop kaveri engine this problems will be sorted out.

Kaveri, I am very skeptical....unless as mentioned in one of the
minutes 20:40 onwards ....
there is a creation of integrated national aeronautics sadan/commission ..is created, that could solve the pressing problems of the crucial tech like engines radars....

A collaboration with french over the engine might not be fruitful ..but lets hope that as done with the shakti engine .. we get to be entirely independent on the engines front..else we shall be bullied in time of crisis

 

[CuriousBen]

The entire system was already approved with DND. I don't think an out right rejection is possible due to Vishal class being CATOBAR as discussed earlier with only nose wheel assembly changed for ops (Indian juggaad). Let's hope for the best now since all the hard work into the program has to show some abysmal result. I think it's done to generate interest in the NLCA.

Between , what i am wondering is why can't we have VTOL systems for nlca ?
like, the sea - harriers were, i.e. subsonic but were very agile and effective in falkland wars against mirages..we cannot deny the fact that the uk pilots were superbly trained and well informed of the argentinan air force.

 

[airtel]

Between , what i am wondering is why can't we have VTOL systems for nlca ?

we will have to design a new Aircraft with new much more powerful Engine & different air-frame .

and we dont have that much resources & technical knowledge .

 

[airtel]

F414 engine have been started ariving just now from Dec 2016 from GE

GE 414 started arriving ? what are the specifications of these Engines ? is it EPE version of GE 414 ??

 

[Abhishek Shrivastava]

Too many information without authentic sources. many time feels day dreeming.
Any thing comes on blog should have a concrete backgroud.
Just my opinion.....

 

[airtel]

Not a single GE414 engine has arrived till date. Confirmed contract for only 8 GE414 has been signed

please give source of this information ...................when these Engine will arrive ??
what are the specifications of these Engines ??

 

[akk]

I guess these can be best used for 4 TDs of AMCA

 

[indiandefencefan]

Do you think that IN didn't thought about this....

NLCA was supposed to be a research project and push for home made fighter aircraft

After the first flight they fell in love with NP-1....

IN wanted ADA to continue research on NP and get back with better engine, better payload better avionics in short NLCA mk2.

Now our current navy chief says the same thing I.e., NLCA was not up to the mark. NP 1 & NP 2 are for research not production model for Navy.

NLCA mk2 are to be operated from INS Vishal and that is post 2030.

Don't jump into conclusion that NLCA is done and dusted. It's not done until it's not done, just wait for official confirmation in my view which we may never hear it.

In my post I am solely talking about why NP1 and NP2 were rejected in response to a specific question. If you would have cared to look back a few posts you would realized the same. Do not jump to conclusions based on a single post.
As for my argument on why the the NLCA MK2 will not take off quoting and earlier post of mine:

"It is not just a matter of engines. The LCA Tejas is inherently designed as a Light Fighter and as such no matter what engine you put in the airframe be it GE F414 or the Kaveri, it will not be able to provide the Navy with the range or payload that they require from a carrier based fighter like the current Mig 29K.
The fact that the Navy wants to float a tender for foreign fighters also corroborates my point.
The Navy will not opt for Tejas on the Vikrant and even if Tejas Mk2 is built with better engines remember that the Tejas N is built for STOBAR landings while the Vishal will be built around a CATOBAR/EMALS configuration so no chance there as well.
Sorry mate but the NLCA will most likely remain as a tech demonstrator unless the Navy is arm twisted into accepting it."
#12926