NAL Saras, Regional Transport Aircraft (RTA) & Hansa Project

[SanjeevM]

I am desperately waiting for NAL-Sarus and RTA. Hopefully in future we don't import small passenger aircrafts from abroad and save a lot of foreign currency and also provide regional connectivity.

 

[Sancho]

I am desperately waiting for NAL-Sarus and RTA. Hopefully in future we don't import small passenger aircrafts from abroad and save a lot of foreign currency and also provide regional connectivity.

AFAIK the initial RTA development is dead and last year HAL searched for a foreign JV partner, but since then no news on that. The future of Saras is questionable as well, we know that it still suffers from design issues and it requires large fundings to improve it and produce new prototypes. At the same time, the initial requirement of our forces is gone, since old Do 228, were replaced with new Do 228NG, with HAL and TATA as prime Indian industry contributors. So is there a civil market, that would order Saras in sufficient numbers to make the new funds and development time worth it?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

DO 228 upgrade is still an offer and not official yet ..

SARAS has possibility of a gud RISTA platform besides doing what DO 228 is doing ..

 

[darshan978]

AFAIK the initial RTA development is dead and last year HAL searched for a foreign JV partner, but since then no news on that. The future of Saras is questionable as well, we know that it still suffers from design issues and it requires large fundings to improve it and produce new prototypes. At the same time, the initial requirement of our forces is gone, since old Do 228, were replaced with new Do 228NG, with HAL and TATA as prime Indian industry contributors. So is there a civil market, that would order Saras in sufficient numbers to make the new funds and development time worth it?

Whats the design issues in nal saras can you eloberate with source? And whats the letest fuzz about flight trials of saras i think they have completed high speed and law speed taxi trials...

 

[Sancho]

Whats the design issues in nal saras can you eloberate with source? And whats the letest fuzz about flight trials of saras i think they have completed high speed and law speed taxi trials...

Sadly the same once, that all our aviation projects have, drag and overweight:

NAL starts taxi trials of improved Saras
SEPTEMBER 09, 2017

...Dr. Jadhav said, “We plan to fly the aircraft in the first week of October after the high speed taxi trials are completed. We made more than 10 modifications since the accident. The performance of the plane’s systems after the modification will be evaluated during the flights.”

About 25 flights are planned in the first set of the modified prototype, the PT1N, he recently told The Hindu. By the end of 2019, NAL plans to fly a production-standard version for air-worthiness certification...

...The 10-odd modifications were made to make it more pilot-friendly, agile, or easy to control; and to enable it to fly higher. The final Saras is planned to be able to cover 1,600 km at a maximum speed of 425 kmph, have a service ceiling of 9-10 km and fly continuously for five hours.

Dr. Jadhav outlined the roadmap: "After the trial flights, the design configuration of Saras is targeted to be frozen by March 2018 as production standard. By then we should have reduced the weight and drag issues. We would have made improvements in avionics, glass cockpit, environment control systems, cabin pressure control systems and a few changes in flight control systems. We then go in for funding [from the government] for two limited series production vehicles and a static specimen.

"The current plan is that we start flying the LSPs by December 2019 for final certification," he said...

...The project has used up around ₹ 500 crore. Dr. Jadhav said, "We need around ₹ 550-660 crore to produce two LSP versions. We will move the necessary papers after the first flight."

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-trials-of-improved-saras/article19647155.ece

After 16 Years and Rs 300 Crore, Civil Aircraft Dream Crashlands
Jan, 2016

...The aircraft made its maiden flight in 2004, but the project has always been plagued with glitches. Weight was a major concern as the aircraft was overweight by 1,000 kg. In fact, during the maiden flight, all seats except three — for two pilots and a flight test engineer — were removed to bring down the weight...

...NAL had built two aircraft and was in the process of making a third one using composite materials to reduce the weight. Saras also flew at air shows in the city. In fact, NAL was able to address the weight issue to some extent in the third aircraft that never took to the skies. In the second one, they used a more powerful engine. Saras aircraft were powered by Pratt and Whitney engines...

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/01/after-16-years-and-rs-300-crore-civil.html?m=1

We pride ourselves with the amount of composites our aircrafts and helicopters have, but still we end up with overweight and drag issues, which shows that knowing how to build advanced materials is not enough, when you don't know how to implement it into a good design.

 

[Prashant12]

Upgraded Saras PT1N all set for maiden flight in January

Bengaluru: National Aeronautics Laboratories (NAL), a frontline wing under Council of Scientific & Industrial Research (CSIR) here, is ready to put the upgraded prototype of Saras on its maiden flight.

The Saras PT1N (New), a 14-seater passenger plane, is expected to have its first flight after completing one more high speed taxi trial (HSTT).

Military sources confirm to Mathrubhumi that the first flight will be about 20-25 minutes.

Two Test Pilots and one Flight Test Engineer, who are empanelled to the PT1N project from Indian Air Force’s Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE), will be onboard the maiden mission.

The first flight could be any time during the first/second week of January 2018.

What separates the PT1N now from the maiden flight are a SRB (Safety Review Board) and one final HSTT.

A young team of around 40 scientists and engineers, with an average age of 40 years, have been toiling hard for the last nine months to ensure Saras does what it is meant to be doing -- flying.

The project had virtually hit a dead end after the March 2009 crash of PT-2 martyring three ASTE crew onboard. The subsequent crash probe, lack of confidence among users, want of funds and political will further dented the project.

The aircraft was grounded for close to three years (2013-2016) barring namesake EGRs to keep the power-plant in good shape.

The resurgence of Saras project as PT1N has now given hope for India’s foray into making 14/19-seater passenger turboprops, with China, Russia, Poland, Indonesia and United States have already gone some distance.

In the new avatar as PT1N, it boasts of many upgraded features, following a gap analysis undertaken last year.

A close look at what PT1N looks like

* The control forces have been significantly reduced.

* The nacelle design (for engine mount) has been made optimal.

* Environmental control systems, cabin pressurization systems have been modified.

* Automatic avionics stall warning system included.

* Linear flap track and trim taps on elevator modified.

* Rudder area enhanced for better controllability.

* Flight test instrumentation modified.

* Electrical systems modified to reduce voltage losses.

* Air data system has been provided with the nose boom for redundancy.

Apart from above modification on the aircraft, the following additional safety measures have also been ensured by the team.

* Complete borosopic inspection of the aircraft to eliminate any doubts about corrosion.

* Computer-based failure analysis of engine, elevator jamming and ailerons power adequacy.

* Simulator upgraded to the high-fidelity.

The NAL-ASTE combine’s primary objective with PT-1N is to evaluate all systems, including design and performance parameters. The inputs collected from PT1N’s initial flights (expected to be around 20-30 in the next six months), will be then used to freeze the design, paving way for the production version.

India’s 19-seater dream will be Saras Mk-2

PT-IN flight data will inspire NAL to prepare the DPR (detail project report) for India’s much-awaited 19-seater passenger plane – Saras Mk2.

The Saras Mk2 will have additional five more seats and a toilet as compared to the PT1N. It will also have gen-next avionics and glass cockpit, autopilot and other features any modern passenger turboprop could boast off.

The Saras Mk2 with reduced weight (around 700 kg compared to PT1N) will have an AUW (all up-weight) of roughly around 7.4 to 7.5 ton and will likely to run on MRF tyres.

Both military and passenger platforms

Sources confirm that NAL plans to have both military and passenger version for the 19-seater. They hope to encash on the CEMILAC-DGCA’s certification model used in ALH, to save time.

As of now, two production variants are planned while the third one will be a fatigue test specimen (FTS) – all estimated to costing around Rs 700 crore.

In the last one year, NAL put some of its best workforce behind the Saras project with many slogging it out day and night.

Insiders say only less than Rs 5 core has been spent in the last one year for Saras PT-IN, thanks to lean management philosophy, optimum usage of resources and constant monitoring.

With CSIR backing the project after some hiccups, Saras is sure to be India’s star in 2018 with IAF offering all support to the desi mission once again. CSIR DG Dr Girish Sahni’s push for the Saras PT1N/19-seater, and the Udan mantra of Govt of India also have come as a blessing for team NAL.

Subject to the Cabinet Committee on Security approval, the detail design of the first limited series production (LSP) variant of Saras-Mk-2 should begin in 2019 followed by certification and demonstration flights by 2021.

In short, in three years NAL will have its handful with Saras once again back on the radar.


http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news...ll-set-for-maiden-flight-in-january-1.2483386

 

[Suryavanshi]

Upgraded Saras PT1N all set for maiden flight in January

Bengaluru: National Aeronautics Laboratories (NAL), a frontline wing under Council of Scientific & Industrial Research (CSIR) here, is ready to put the upgraded prototype of Saras on its maiden flight.

The Saras PT1N (New), a 14-seater passenger plane, is expected to have its first flight after completing one more high speed taxi trial (HSTT).

Military sources confirm to Mathrubhumi that the first flight will be about 20-25 minutes.

Two Test Pilots and one Flight Test Engineer, who are empanelled to the PT1N project from Indian Air Force’s Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE), will be onboard the maiden mission.

The first flight could be any time during the first/second week of January 2018.

What separates the PT1N now from the maiden flight are a SRB (Safety Review Board) and one final HSTT.

A young team of around 40 scientists and engineers, with an average age of 40 years, have been toiling hard for the last nine months to ensure Saras does what it is meant to be doing -- flying.

The project had virtually hit a dead end after the March 2009 crash of PT-2 martyring three ASTE crew onboard. The subsequent crash probe, lack of confidence among users, want of funds and political will further dented the project.

The aircraft was grounded for close to three years (2013-2016) barring namesake EGRs to keep the power-plant in good shape.

The resurgence of Saras project as PT1N has now given hope for India’s foray into making 14/19-seater passenger turboprops, with China, Russia, Poland, Indonesia and United States have already gone some distance.

In the new avatar as PT1N, it boasts of many upgraded features, following a gap analysis undertaken last year.

A close look at what PT1N looks like

* The control forces have been significantly reduced.

* The nacelle design (for engine mount) has been made optimal.

* Environmental control systems, cabin pressurization systems have been modified.

* Automatic avionics stall warning system included.

* Linear flap track and trim taps on elevator modified.

* Rudder area enhanced for better controllability.

* Flight test instrumentation modified.

* Electrical systems modified to reduce voltage losses.

* Air data system has been provided with the nose boom for redundancy.

Apart from above modification on the aircraft, the following additional safety measures have also been ensured by the team.

* Complete borosopic inspection of the aircraft to eliminate any doubts about corrosion.

* Computer-based failure analysis of engine, elevator jamming and ailerons power adequacy.

* Simulator upgraded to the high-fidelity.

The NAL-ASTE combine’s primary objective with PT-1N is to evaluate all systems, including design and performance parameters. The inputs collected from PT1N’s initial flights (expected to be around 20-30 in the next six months), will be then used to freeze the design, paving way for the production version.

India’s 19-seater dream will be Saras Mk-2

PT-IN flight data will inspire NAL to prepare the DPR (detail project report) for India’s much-awaited 19-seater passenger plane – Saras Mk2.

The Saras Mk2 will have additional five more seats and a toilet as compared to the PT1N. It will also have gen-next avionics and glass cockpit, autopilot and other features any modern passenger turboprop could boast off.

The Saras Mk2 with reduced weight (around 700 kg compared to PT1N) will have an AUW (all up-weight) of roughly around 7.4 to 7.5 ton and will likely to run on MRF tyres.

Both military and passenger platforms

Sources confirm that NAL plans to have both military and passenger version for the 19-seater. They hope to encash on the CEMILAC-DGCA’s certification model used in ALH, to save time.

As of now, two production variants are planned while the third one will be a fatigue test specimen (FTS) – all estimated to costing around Rs 700 crore.

In the last one year, NAL put some of its best workforce behind the Saras project with many slogging it out day and night.

Insiders say only less than Rs 5 core has been spent in the last one year for Saras PT-IN, thanks to lean management philosophy, optimum usage of resources and constant monitoring.

With CSIR backing the project after some hiccups, Saras is sure to be India’s star in 2018 with IAF offering all support to the desi mission once again. CSIR DG Dr Girish Sahni’s push for the Saras PT1N/19-seater, and the Udan mantra of Govt of India also have come as a blessing for team NAL.

Subject to the Cabinet Committee on Security approval, the detail design of the first limited series production (LSP) variant of Saras-Mk-2 should begin in 2019 followed by certification and demonstration flights by 2021.

In short, in three years NAL will have its handful with Saras once again back on the radar.


http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news...ll-set-for-maiden-flight-in-january-1.2483386

Hope this test succeeds and we can further progress in commercial aviation

 

[Kyubi]

Hope this test succeeds and we can further progress in commercial aviation

i am interested in the avionics aspect , i believe they had plans to make it a full glass cockpit. hope they clear every test parameters with flying colors. this way regional air travel can get the much needed boost.

 

[Kyubi]

Cockpit of NAL Saras circa 2003

 

[darshan978]

Upgraded Saras PT1N all set for maiden flight in January

Bengaluru: National Aeronautics Laboratories (NAL), a frontline wing under Council of Scientific & Industrial Research (CSIR) here, is ready to put the upgraded prototype of Saras on its maiden flight.

The Saras PT1N (New), a 14-seater passenger plane, is expected to have its first flight after completing one more high speed taxi trial (HSTT).

Military sources confirm to Mathrubhumi that the first flight will be about 20-25 minutes.

Two Test Pilots and one Flight Test Engineer, who are empanelled to the PT1N project from Indian Air Force’s Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE), will be onboard the maiden mission.

The first flight could be any time during the first/second week of January 2018.

What separates the PT1N now from the maiden flight are a SRB (Safety Review Board) and one final HSTT.

A young team of around 40 scientists and engineers, with an average age of 40 years, have been toiling hard for the last nine months to ensure Saras does what it is meant to be doing -- flying.

The project had virtually hit a dead end after the March 2009 crash of PT-2 martyring three ASTE crew onboard. The subsequent crash probe, lack of confidence among users, want of funds and political will further dented the project.

The aircraft was grounded for close to three years (2013-2016) barring namesake EGRs to keep the power-plant in good shape.

The resurgence of Saras project as PT1N has now given hope for India’s foray into making 14/19-seater passenger turboprops, with China, Russia, Poland, Indonesia and United States have already gone some distance.

In the new avatar as PT1N, it boasts of many upgraded features, following a gap analysis undertaken last year.

A close look at what PT1N looks like

* The control forces have been significantly reduced.

* The nacelle design (for engine mount) has been made optimal.

* Environmental control systems, cabin pressurization systems have been modified.

* Automatic avionics stall warning system included.

* Linear flap track and trim taps on elevator modified.

* Rudder area enhanced for better controllability.

* Flight test instrumentation modified.

* Electrical systems modified to reduce voltage losses.

* Air data system has been provided with the nose boom for redundancy.

Apart from above modification on the aircraft, the following additional safety measures have also been ensured by the team.

* Complete borosopic inspection of the aircraft to eliminate any doubts about corrosion.

* Computer-based failure analysis of engine, elevator jamming and ailerons power adequacy.

* Simulator upgraded to the high-fidelity.

The NAL-ASTE combine’s primary objective with PT-1N is to evaluate all systems, including design and performance parameters. The inputs collected from PT1N’s initial flights (expected to be around 20-30 in the next six months), will be then used to freeze the design, paving way for the production version.

India’s 19-seater dream will be Saras Mk-2

PT-IN flight data will inspire NAL to prepare the DPR (detail project report) for India’s much-awaited 19-seater passenger plane – Saras Mk2.

The Saras Mk2 will have additional five more seats and a toilet as compared to the PT1N. It will also have gen-next avionics and glass cockpit, autopilot and other features any modern passenger turboprop could boast off.

The Saras Mk2 with reduced weight (around 700 kg compared to PT1N) will have an AUW (all up-weight) of roughly around 7.4 to 7.5 ton and will likely to run on MRF tyres.

Both military and passenger platforms

Sources confirm that NAL plans to have both military and passenger version for the 19-seater. They hope to encash on the CEMILAC-DGCA’s certification model used in ALH, to save time.

As of now, two production variants are planned while the third one will be a fatigue test specimen (FTS) – all estimated to costing around Rs 700 crore.

In the last one year, NAL put some of its best workforce behind the Saras project with many slogging it out day and night.

Insiders say only less than Rs 5 core has been spent in the last one year for Saras PT-IN, thanks to lean management philosophy, optimum usage of resources and constant monitoring.

With CSIR backing the project after some hiccups, Saras is sure to be India’s star in 2018 with IAF offering all support to the desi mission once again. CSIR DG Dr Girish Sahni’s push for the Saras PT1N/19-seater, and the Udan mantra of Govt of India also have come as a blessing for team NAL.

Subject to the Cabinet Committee on Security approval, the detail design of the first limited series production (LSP) variant of Saras-Mk-2 should begin in 2019 followed by certification and demonstration flights by 2021.

In short, in three years NAL will have its handful with Saras once again back on the radar.


http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news...ll-set-for-maiden-flight-in-january-1.2483386

Best of luck i had heard some buzz about this now its sure hope they complt trials and make civilian plane also

 

[G10]

“Will run on MRF tires.” Shitty reporting but all the best.

 

[darshan978]

Saras high speed taxi trials

 

[Rahul Singh]

........................................................

 

[Rahul Singh]

India’s 19-seater dream will be Saras Mk-2

PT-IN flight data will inspire NAL to prepare the DPR (detail project report) for India’s much-awaited 19-seater passenger plane – Saras Mk2.

The Saras Mk2 will have additional five more seats and a toilet as compared to the PT1N. It will also have gen-next avionics and glass cockpit, autopilot and other features any modern passenger turboprop could boast off.

Don't get it!

Indian regional routes are mainly dominated by ATR-72s of government carriers. Now with Indigo introducing it ATR-72 fleet and Spicejet with its Q400 fleet, the standard Regional Jet with seat capacity as standard is ~70. For connecting tier-3/4 cities one can bring the requirements to ~40. Any less and GOI might have to start its own airline, focusing entirely on Air-Commuters.

For starters, it is ok to start with small and light but in the real world, you need to bring to market what's in demand especially on high. Not what you want(hope actually) others to buy.

Practically I don't see any Indian carrier having any requirement for a 19 seater class airliner. Other than one (if at all) decides to connect general tourist spots and pilgrimage centres. Though its practicality is still moot as numbers required will still remain low to make an investment in production facility a commercially viable move.

If India wants to succeed in Airliner segment then it has to start with the family of Regional Jets based on market requirements which could be a bigger plus longer version of Saras.

For start, NAL and HAL should collaborate for development of a 40-50 seat class RJ based on SARAS airframe and inspired by Embraer's's ERJ series. Fortunately, Saras shared looks and basic design layouts of ERJ family. If HAL+NAL could introduce both Turbo Prop and Turbofan version with varying seating capacity. Then it will become more attractive opting than present ERJ family thereby making it one-stop solution for low-cost airlines.

But before anything please start with selecting an attractive nomenclature............. RTA is fine. That reminds of original RTA concept. For whatever reasons it was not actively persuaded earlier today there is no reason why don't develop it? EADS's C-295 production by TATA's is a shot in the arm and we must cash it.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Meanwhile, this is where a small nation Indonesia was in 1995(though cancelled initially but being revived). Of course it is a ATR-42's copy but who cares.

And we --despite being at Mars-- looking for a reason to start development of any RTA with a much larger market and six decades of experience in aircraft manufacturing which includes transport types like Avro and Dornier 228!

 

[Suryavanshi]

Meanwhile, this is where a small nation Indonesia was in 1995(though cancelled initially but being revived). Of course it is a ATR-42's copy but who cares.

And we --despite being at Mars-- looking for a reason to start development of any RTA with a much larger market and six decades of experience in aircraft manufacturing which includes transport types like Avro and Dornier 228!

Kismat kharab this Bhai apni.
But don't worry we are gonna catch on

 

[Rahul Singh]

Kismat kharab this Bhai apni.
But don't worry we are gonna catch on

Definitely, those 10 years were like a black hole. So-called a Saint and an outright idiot controlling two key ministries, those, however, in turn, was being controlled by arms agents favourite go-to in India, The Lady GaGa of 24 Akbar Raod.

 

[darshan978]

We should adopt copy principal of china in civil aviation at least.....

 

[Vinod DX9]

NAL Saras once was thought that it would never fly ... But it did....
So , we will see more success in future....the start is low, ultimate success will be high

 

[Kshithij]

Sadly the same once, that all our aviation projects have, drag and overweight:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-trials-of-improved-saras/article19647155.ece



http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/01/after-16-years-and-rs-300-crore-civil.html?m=1

We pride ourselves with the amount of composites our aircrafts and helicopters have, but still we end up with overweight and drag issues, which shows that knowing how to build advanced materials is not enough, when you don't know how to implement it into a good design.

Saras just made a flight recently. The team said that the wight will be reduced by 1ton in the next prototypes by modifying design and making composite frame. As of now, only test flights are being flown to check suitability. The aircraft will be ready by 2019 and certified by 2020.

You mentioned that SARAS dream crashlanded by posting an article of January 2016. But, the taxi trials began in July 2017 itself. This wouldn't be possible if the project had crashlanded in 2016. What were you thinking before writing this? Why peddle fake news by searching in the garbage cans and bringing out 2 year old news which already has been proven as lies?