Myth of Vegetarianism in Ancient india

[drkrn]

In which Veda is eating beef prohibited? Just show me that. How come Chandogya Upanishad clearly states that all animals and all plants are provided for our consumption by Lord Vishnu, without exception? Sure, protecting animals is mentioned, but it has been quoted out of context by the militant-vegetarian-brigade, which is hell bent on subverting the religion. Even the Indian Constitution guarantees Right to Life. Does that mean there is no death penalty?

Over a period of time, the invading or migrating Aryans, gradually gave up their nomadic lifestyle, and adopted a more agrarian and sedentary lifestyle. Due to this, the importance of animal husbandry gained importance, and new customs came into being. This is how cattle became as important as real estate today is. However, the metamorphosis that Indian society underwent, does not mean, at the beginning of Bronze Age, the customs and prohibitions were the same as those that came into existence in the later Iron Age. Hindutwavadis don't even acknowledge that Aryans came into India, where overwhelming evidence exists as to their original source being eastern Iran and western Afghanistan.

Regional customs are regional customs. Practice what you want, but please don't do it in the name of Vedas.


One is subset of the other. Show me a prohibition on eating beef, not from the Puranas and Smritis, but the Vedas.

vedas dont even has a name called hindu.there are only sampradayas.afaik the term arya is a changed/modified word.it is arsha(or something likethat) sampradaya

though i believe the aryan nomads coming into india and conquering the lands,i have no substantial evidence to prove this.but one can find the quotes from great fighter bhishmacharya about origins of kuru empire in mahabharata.its somewhere above today's afghanistan and china.
even researchers believe that meru parvat is in this region by the quotes given by bhishmacharya.
wife of dhritarashtra ,gandhari is from afghanistan(gandharadesham)and sakuni is maternal uncle of kauravas

Being a Brahmin means being conversant with the Vedas, at least one of them. This is the fundamental of receiving a holy thread. Hence my questions. Otherwise, why claim to be a Brahmin? Just because of heredity? What religion is that? Surely not Hinduism. Also, your mention of caste is irrelevant. Caste has nothing to do with Hinduism, or being a Brahmin.

a person who has the knowledge of bramha (supreme) is a brahmin irrespective of birth.recieving holy thread is just to send you for education.even kshatriyas,vysyas wear it.once it is worn by all classes of people including women,but gradually given up.
you can still see in some socially deprived classes wearing holy thread.

 

[Himanshu Pandey]

meat eating was not a big issue for indians before the bhakti era of medieval times and then it gains a little more lime light when westerners came into contacts with brahmin and sadhus who don't eat meat or even onion and garlic(which is a ready remedy against vampire ).

the truth is Indians has been a mis of in meat eating and vegitarinas as other people of world... vedas had called go-ghna(killer of cows) to guests because beef was presented to them as a food. later a lot of hindu sages and books talked about not eating beef but this was not religious thing.. it was a complete economic decision which was presented in the disguise of religion... cow were the base of old aryan and lated indian civilization as whole.. and killing them for eating was not good for economy at first place so all those anti-beef law came into existence... I too don't eat or think of eating it but that doesn't comes between truth of history and reason.

on meat eating there is none who didn't eat it... the kings, brahmins, sages, merchant and all the 4 vernas were consumers of it. the royal food mentioned for sage like vishwamitra and others were same as of kings and that means it included meat. the animal sacrifice was a big part of any religious activity in past and brahmins were the first who got the prashad fro ritual.. now a ritual which was done by killing animal will produce meat as prashad.

during 600 bc the whole budhaism and jainism was started against aryan and brahminical religion practices in those time and now if these 2 are openly against meat eating it concludes that others were quite pro-meat eaters.

with the rise of kabir, surdas and other bhakti era poets eating meat came down in society and with the rise of arya samaj and others in 18th and 19th century all present day belief were created.

there is nothing like hindus were vegetarians and all.. yes hindus of medieval era didn't eat beef and respected cows due to religious reason but it was limited to cows only.

 

[Himanshu Pandey]

vedas dont even has a name called hindu.there are only sampradayas.afaik the term arya is a changed/modified word.it is arsha(or something likethat) sampradaya

though i believe the aryan nomads coming into india and conquering the lands,i have no substantial evidence to prove this.but one can find the quotes from great fighter bhishmacharya about origins of kuru empire in mahabharata.its somewhere above today's afghanistan and china.
even researchers believe that meru parvat is in this region by the quotes given by bhishmacharya.
wife of dhritarashtra ,gandhari is from afghanistan(gandharadesham)and sakuni is maternal uncle of kauravas



a person who has the knowledge of bramha (supreme) is a brahmin irrespective of birth.recieving holy thread is just to send you for education.even kshatriyas,vysyas wear it.once it is worn by all classes of people including women,but gradually given up.
you can still see in some socially deprived classes wearing holy thread.

first thing hindu was a term used by Persians for the Indus river(sindhu) and later used for people living across Indus. 2nd thing is Vedas mentions arya, anarya only. for people of aryan tribe word is jana and and kul for family.

now I don't believe that aryan had came from somewhere else.. they were nomadic no doubt about that but there origin is in north-west India or its nearby regions as beef prohibiting i not mentioned in vedas and beef eating is so there is nothing like a war with natives or migration is mentioned in vedas.

 

[nirranj]

Cows are too precious and make continuous wealth. They are considered like a fixed deposit which gives a regular income and they multiply too. Bulls made up the beast of burden for our society and they too become valuable. So killing cows and bulls means, effectively destroying ones wealth for a meal. Since Land resource is limited for us, it also means the effective grazing land per cow or milch animal is limited, so, the proteins are extracted from the milch animals rather than by eating the animal directly.

The first Grammar to Tamil, "Tholkappiyam", explains the importance of cows to a country,

such that the first move in a war for a aggressor is to sneak into the enemy territory and steal their Cow herds. The soldiers involving in this phase will wear a garland made of Vetchi Flower and so the phase is called as "Vetchi". and the strategies and phases are written in the "Vetchi thinai". "Thinai" is the guidelines for life, here War and politics come under "PuRa Thinai" with "PuRam" meaning external or social or worldly life...

Similarly, as per "PuRap PoruL VeNbaa Maalai" the first move for the defenders is to fight the aggressors to secure back the stolen cattle. This is called "Karanthai" and its phases and strategies are part of "Karanthai Thinai". According to "Tholkaappiyam", "Karanthai" is part of "Vetchi".

So In a War, The first move is to hamper my enemies economy, which is done by stealing his Cattle. And Cattle are considered wealth, which means too precious to be killed for a meal.

 

[Himanshu Pandey]

sorry for saying that it is not mentioned in rig veda... I am still trying to understand it... but the 87th hyme of agni is about this...

the complete hyme is

HYMN LXXXVII. Agni.
1. I BALM with oil the mighty Raksas-slayer; to the most famous Friend I come for
shelter
Enkindled, sharpened by our rites, may Agni protect us in the day and night from evil.

2 O Jatavedas with the teeth of iron, enkindled with thy flame attack the demons.
Seize with thy longue the foolish gods' adorers: rend, put within thy mouth the raw-flesh
caters.
3 Apply thy teeth, the upper and the lower, thou who hast both, enkindled and destroying.
Roam also in the air, O King, around us, and with thy jaws assail the wicked spirits.
4 Bending thy shafts through sacrifices, Agni, whetting their points with song as if with
whetstones,
Pierce to the heart therewith the Yatudhanas, and break their arms uplifed to attack thee.
5 Pierce through the Yatudhana's skin, O Agni; let the destroying dart with fire consume
him.
Rend his joints, Jatavedas, let the cater of flesh, flesh-seeking, track his mangled body.
6 Where now thou seest Agni Jatavedas, one of these demons standing still or roaming,
Or flying on those paths in air's midregion, sharpen the shaft and as an archer pierce him.
7 Tear from the evil spirit, Jatavedas, what he hath seized and with his spears hath
captured.
Blazing before him strike him down, O Agni; let spotted carrion-eating kites devour him.
8 Here tell this forth, O Agni: whosoever is, he himself, or acteth as, a demon,
Him grasp, O thou Most Youthful, with thy fuel. to the Mati-seer's eye give him as booty.
9 With keen glance guard the sacrifice, O Agni: thou Sage, conduct it onward to the
Vasus.
Let not the fiends, O Man-beholder, harm thee burning against the Raksasas to slay them.
10 Look on the fiend mid men, as Man-beholder: rend thou his three extremities in
pieces.
Demolish with thy flame his ribs, O Agni, the Yatudhana's root destroy thou triply.
11 Thrice, Agni, let thy noose surround the demon who with his falsehood injures Holy
Order.
Loud roaring with thy flame, O Jatavedas, crush him and cast him down before the
singer.
12 Lead thou the worshipper that eye, O Agni, wherewith thou lookest on the hoof-armed
demon.
With light celestial in Atharvan's manner burn up the foot who ruins truth with falsehood.
13 Agni, what curse the pair this day have uttered, what heated word the worshippers
have spoken,
Each arrowy taunt sped from the angry spirit,-pierce to the heart therewith the
Yatudhanas.
14 With fervent heat exterminate the demons; destroy the fiends with burning flame, O
Agni.
Destroy with fire the foolish gods' adorers; blaze and destrepy the insatiable monsters.
15 May Gods destroy this day the evil-doer may each hot curse of his return and blast
him.
Let arrows pierce the liar in his vitals, and Visva's net enclose the Yatudhana.
16 The fiend who smears himself with flesh of cattle, with flesh of horses and of human
bodies,
Who steals the milch-cow's milk away, O Agni,-tear off the heads of such with fiery fury.
17 The cow gives milk each year, O Man-regarder: let not the Yatudhana ever taste it.
If one would glut him with the biesting, Agni, pierce with thy flame his vitals as he meets
thee.
18 Let the fiends drink the poison of the cattle; may Aditi cast off the evildoers.
May the God Savitar give them up to ruin, and be their share of plants and herbs denied
them.
19 Agni, from days of old thou slayest demons: never shall Raksasas in fight o'ercome
thee.
Burn up the foolish ones, the flesh-devourers: let none of them escape thine heavenly
arrow.
20 Guard us, O Agni, from above and under, protect us fl-om behind us and before us;
And may thy flames, most fierce and never wasting, glowing with fervent heat, consume
the sinner.
21 From rear, from front, from under, from above us, O King, protect us as a Sage with
wisdom.
Guard to old age thy friend, O Friend, Eternal: O Agni, as Immortal, guard us mortals.
22 We set thee round us as a fort, victorious Agni, thee a Sage,
Of hero lineage, day by day, destroyer of our treacherous foes.
23 Burn with thy poison turned against the treacherous brood of Raksasas,
O Agni, with thy sharpened glow, with lances armed with points of flame.
24 Burn thou the paired Kimidins, brun, Agni, the Yatudhana pairs.
I sharpen thee, Infallible, with hymns. O Sage, be vigilant.
25 Shoot forth, O Agni, with thy flame demolish them on every side.
Break thou the Yatudhana's strength, the vigour of the Raksasa.


and the part of it is...

The fiend who smears himself with flesh of cattle, with flesh of horses and of human bodies,
Who steals the milch-cow's milk away, O Agni,—tear off the heads of such with fiery fury.

The cow gives milk each year, O Man-regarder let not the Yātudhāna ever taste it.
If one would glut him with the biesting, Agni, pierce with thy flame his vitals as he meets thee.

Let the fiends drink the poison of the cattle; may Aditi cast off the evildoers.
May the God Savitar give them up to ruin, and be their share of plants and herbs denied them.

Agni, from days of old thou slayest demons never shall Rākṣasas in fight o'ercome thee.
Burn up the foolish ones, the flesh-devourers let none of them escape thine heavenly arrow.


so I am going into doubt zone till I understand it clearly.. if somebody can please explain it to us.

 

[drkrn]

first thing hindu was a term used by Persians for the Indus river(sindhu) and later used for people living across Indus. 2nd thing is Vedas mentions arya, anarya only. for people of aryan tribe word is jana and and kul for family.

now I don't believe that aryan had came from somewhere else.. they were nomadic no doubt about that but there origin is in north-west India or its nearby regions as beef prohibiting i not mentioned in vedas and beef eating is so there is nothing like a war with natives or migration is mentioned in vedas.

to add few years back,dna analysis of people from king lineages in india showed they more matching with europeans king blood lines than indians..

 

[Himanshu Pandey]

to add few years back,dna analysis of people from king lineages in india showed they more matching with europeans king blood lines than indians..

never heard of this... please share more information before I can answer it.. till then its just not true.

 

[sydsnyper]

I dont know if you have seen the youtube video posted in this thread, that should answer some of your questions. if you dont find me, lemme know.

When you say that the veggies have misquoted & misinterpreted the vedas, are you sure you have interpreted the Chandogya Upanishad correctly and in the right context??

Your Aryan theory to justify non-veganism is a convenient lie at the best. You should know by now that the Aryan invasion theory itself is flawed and may need to be edited out of school curriculum for lack of substantiation.

In which Veda is eating beef prohibited? Just show me that. How come Chandogya Upanishad clearly states that all animals and all plants are provided for our consumption by Lord Vishnu, without exception? Sure, protecting animals is mentioned, but it has been quoted out of context by the militant-vegetarian-brigade, which is hell bent on subverting the religion. Even the Indian Constitution guarantees Right to Life. Does that mean there is no death penalty?

Over a period of time, the invading or migrating Aryans, gradually gave up their nomadic lifestyle, and adopted a more agrarian and sedentary lifestyle. Due to this, the importance of animal husbandry gained importance, and new customs came into being. This is how cattle became as important as real estate today is. However, the metamorphosis that Indian society underwent, does not mean, at the beginning of Bronze Age, the customs and prohibitions were the same as those that came into existence in the later Iron Age. Hindutwavadis don't even acknowledge that Aryans came into India, where overwhelming evidence exists as to their original source being eastern Iran and western Afghanistan.

Regional customs are regional customs. Practice what you want, but please don't do it in the name of Vedas.


One is subset of the other. Show me a prohibition on eating beef, not from the Puranas and Smritis, but the Vedas.


Being a Brahmin means being conversant with the Vedas, at least one of them. This is the fundamental of receiving a holy thread. Hence my questions. Otherwise, why claim to be a Brahmin? Just because of heredity? What religion is that? Surely not Hinduism. Also, your mention of caste is irrelevant. Caste has nothing to do with Hinduism, or being a Brahmin.

 

[drkrn]

never heard of this... please share more information before I can answer it.. till then its just not true.

Europeans and Indians – divided or united by DNA? | Russia & India Report

a small example.indian north indian royal families was matched to european royal families found similarity,this project was undertaken few years ago

 

[Himanshu Pandey]

Europeans and Indians – divided or united by DNA? | Russia & India Report

a small example.indian north indian royal families was matched to european royal families found similarity,this project was undertaken few years ago

AFAIK one family in tamilnadu has been found who still carries the DNA of people migrated from africa... DNA connection is going to be found everywhere. Greeks, Macedonians, Romans. Persian, Egyptian, europeans and arabs have migrated to India for thousand of years due to trade, war or traveling... so connection can be because of this and don't carry a lot of value in real world but carries weight in oriental area and self-pity area.

 

[pmaitra]

I dont know if you have seen the youtube video posted in this thread, that should answer some of your questions. if you dont find me, lemme know.

Oh, that YouTube video. I saw that, and I am not convinced.

When you say that the veggies have misquoted & misinterpreted the vedas, are you sure you have interpreted the Chandogya Upanishad correctly and in the right context??

Yes, I have interpreted it correctly. It was a simple answer from a teacher to a simple question from a student. I recommend you read it yourself.

Your Aryan theory to justify non-veganism is a convenient lie at the best.

Yes, everything and anything that does no fit the neo-nationalist propaganda is a lie. The fact that Iran means the land of Aryans is a lie. The fact that Eran-Shahr existed, is a lie. The fact that Indians are racially diverse is also a lie. What more?

There is a long discussion in a thread dedicated to AIT, and I wouldn't want to discuss that in this thread. Please read it: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/religion-culture/1403-aryan-invasion-theory.html

You should know by now that the Aryan invasion theory itself is flawed and may need to be edited out of school curriculum for lack of substantiation.

There are loopholes in the Aryan Invasion Theory, but there is overwhelming evidence that either Invasion or Migration happened (AIM). When a series of evidences exist, and there are missing links, and historians use plausible probability to come up with a narrative. There is far less justification for ANI and ASI or Indigenous Stock Theory. The neo-nationalists are already trying to re-write history. The AIM proponents speak in terms of probability, while Indigenous Stock proponents speak with certainly, despite having much less evidence. This is reason enough to reject such wannabe historians.

 

[LalTopi]

self delete

 

[LalTopi]

never heard of this... please share more information before I can answer it.. till then its just not true.

it is incorrect.

 

[LalTopi]

sorry for saying that it is not mentioned in rig veda... I am still trying to understand it... but the 87th hyme of agni is about this...

the complete hyme is

HYMN LXXXVII. Agni.
1. I BALM with oil the mighty Raksas-slayer; to the most famous Friend I come for
shelter
Enkindled, sharpened by our rites, may Agni protect us in the day and night from evil.

2 O Jatavedas with the teeth of iron, enkindled with thy flame attack the demons.
Seize with thy longue the foolish gods' adorers: rend, put within thy mouth the raw-flesh
caters.
3 Apply thy teeth, the upper and the lower, thou who hast both, enkindled and destroying.
Roam also in the air, O King, around us, and with thy jaws assail the wicked spirits.
4 Bending thy shafts through sacrifices, Agni, whetting their points with song as if with
whetstones,
Pierce to the heart therewith the Yatudhanas, and break their arms uplifed to attack thee.
5 Pierce through the Yatudhana's skin, O Agni; let the destroying dart with fire consume
him.
Rend his joints, Jatavedas, let the cater of flesh, flesh-seeking, track his mangled body.
6 Where now thou seest Agni Jatavedas, one of these demons standing still or roaming,
Or flying on those paths in air's midregion, sharpen the shaft and as an archer pierce him.
7 Tear from the evil spirit, Jatavedas, what he hath seized and with his spears hath
captured.
Blazing before him strike him down, O Agni; let spotted carrion-eating kites devour him.
8 Here tell this forth, O Agni: whosoever is, he himself, or acteth as, a demon,
Him grasp, O thou Most Youthful, with thy fuel. to the Mati-seer's eye give him as booty.
9 With keen glance guard the sacrifice, O Agni: thou Sage, conduct it onward to the
Vasus.
Let not the fiends, O Man-beholder, harm thee burning against the Raksasas to slay them.
10 Look on the fiend mid men, as Man-beholder: rend thou his three extremities in
pieces.
Demolish with thy flame his ribs, O Agni, the Yatudhana's root destroy thou triply.
11 Thrice, Agni, let thy noose surround the demon who with his falsehood injures Holy
Order.
Loud roaring with thy flame, O Jatavedas, crush him and cast him down before the
singer.
12 Lead thou the worshipper that eye, O Agni, wherewith thou lookest on the hoof-armed
demon.
With light celestial in Atharvan's manner burn up the foot who ruins truth with falsehood.
13 Agni, what curse the pair this day have uttered, what heated word the worshippers
have spoken,
Each arrowy taunt sped from the angry spirit,-pierce to the heart therewith the
Yatudhanas.
14 With fervent heat exterminate the demons; destroy the fiends with burning flame, O
Agni.
Destroy with fire the foolish gods' adorers; blaze and destrepy the insatiable monsters.
15 May Gods destroy this day the evil-doer may each hot curse of his return and blast
him.
Let arrows pierce the liar in his vitals, and Visva's net enclose the Yatudhana.
16 The fiend who smears himself with flesh of cattle, with flesh of horses and of human
bodies,
Who steals the milch-cow's milk away, O Agni,-tear off the heads of such with fiery fury.
17 The cow gives milk each year, O Man-regarder: let not the Yatudhana ever taste it.
If one would glut him with the biesting, Agni, pierce with thy flame his vitals as he meets
thee.
18 Let the fiends drink the poison of the cattle; may Aditi cast off the evildoers.
May the God Savitar give them up to ruin, and be their share of plants and herbs denied
them.
19 Agni, from days of old thou slayest demons: never shall Raksasas in fight o'ercome
thee.
Burn up the foolish ones, the flesh-devourers: let none of them escape thine heavenly
arrow.
20 Guard us, O Agni, from above and under, protect us fl-om behind us and before us;
And may thy flames, most fierce and never wasting, glowing with fervent heat, consume
the sinner.
21 From rear, from front, from under, from above us, O King, protect us as a Sage with
wisdom.
Guard to old age thy friend, O Friend, Eternal: O Agni, as Immortal, guard us mortals.
22 We set thee round us as a fort, victorious Agni, thee a Sage,
Of hero lineage, day by day, destroyer of our treacherous foes.
23 Burn with thy poison turned against the treacherous brood of Raksasas,
O Agni, with thy sharpened glow, with lances armed with points of flame.
24 Burn thou the paired Kimidins, brun, Agni, the Yatudhana pairs.
I sharpen thee, Infallible, with hymns. O Sage, be vigilant.
25 Shoot forth, O Agni, with thy flame demolish them on every side.
Break thou the Yatudhana's strength, the vigour of the Raksasa.


and the part of it is...

The fiend who smears himself with flesh of cattle, with flesh of horses and of human bodies,
Who steals the milch-cow's milk away, O Agni,—tear off the heads of such with fiery fury.

The cow gives milk each year, O Man-regarder let not the Yātudhāna ever taste it.
If one would glut him with the biesting, Agni, pierce with thy flame his vitals as he meets thee.

Let the fiends drink the poison of the cattle; may Aditi cast off the evildoers.
May the God Savitar give them up to ruin, and be their share of plants and herbs denied them.

Agni, from days of old thou slayest demons never shall Rākṣasas in fight o'ercome thee.
Burn up the foolish ones, the flesh-devourers let none of them escape thine heavenly arrow.


so I am going into doubt zone till I understand it clearly.. if somebody can please explain it to us.

This text is just referring to demons. It is not referring to humans at all nor whether humans should eat meat/beff or not.

 

[LalTopi]

There are loopholes in the Aryan Invasion Theory, but there is overwhelming evidence that either Invasion or Migration happened (AIM). When a series of evidences exist, and there are missing links, and historians use plausible probability to come up with a narrative. There is far less justification for ANI and ASI or Indigenous Stock Theory. The neo-nationalists are already trying to re-write history. The AIM proponents speak in terms of probability, while Indigenous Stock proponents speak with certainly, despite having much less evidence. This is reason enough to reject such wannabe historians.

Look again. I have been reading the British Gazzeteers and athropological writings and as far back as the 1880s they were writing in absolute certainty about the Aryan Invasion Theory. AIT is basically a racist theory to justify the then British colonialism and AIM is just AIT-lite invented when the racists could no longer speak with such arrogant certainty about AIT. By your same logic you should reject both AIT and AIM.

 

[pmaitra]

Look again. I have been reading the British Gazzeteers and athropological writings and as far back as the 1880s they were writing in absolute certainty about the Aryan Invasion Theory. AIT is basically a racist theory to justify the then British colonialism and AIM is just AIT-lite invented when the racists could no longer speak with such arrogant certainty about AIT. By your same logic you should reject both AIT and AIM.

Certainty of event A means, P(x = A) = 1, and P(x = ~A) = 0.

I do not believe most of the real life instances conform to that rule.

 

[LalTopi]

Certainty of event A means, P(x = A) = 1, and P(x = ~A) = 0.

I do not believe most of the real life instances conform to that rule.

Exactly. So do not try to dismiss all out of India theorists as racist or portray all AIT/AIM proponents as independent rational scientists (esp when AIT was quite clearly at its birth grounded in racism)

 

[pmaitra]

Exactly. So do not try to dismiss all out of India theorists as racist or portray all AIT/AIM proponents as independent rational scientists (esp when AIT was quite clearly at its birth grounded in racism)

We all know people have migrated out of India, as much as people have migrated into India. The problem I have with Out of India theorists is that they seem rather confident. It is this confidence that I dismiss.

My argument, and if you go back into my past comments, has been that India is too diverse to have had an exclusive Indian origin, and that exclusivity (P(Origin = India) = 1) is what I reject.

 

[bennedose]

to add few years back,dna analysis of people from king lineages in india showed they more matching with europeans king blood lines than indians..

What is king blood line? I collect up genetics papers on the subject and this claim becomes worth looking at only if an academic paper with specific genetic links are discussed in support of this. Otherwise I would dismiss it as yet another fake claim which are a dime a dozen in this subject. "Blood line" is a word that I have never seen in any genetics paper, good or bad and the expression is academically classifiable as nonsense.

 

[bennedose]

first thing hindu was a term used by Persians for the Indus river(sindhu) and later used for people living across Indus. 2nd thing is Vedas mentions arya, anarya only. for people of aryan tribe word is jana and and kul for family.

Himanshu - correction.

The word "Hindu" was used by Zorastrians for the area called "Hapta-Hindu" (corresponding to Sapta Sindhu) long before "Persians" appeared on the scene. According to sources (which I can name, quote and link) Zoroastrianism itself is a branch of the Vedic faiths with the Zoroastrian Holy Book the Zend Avesta being the lost Bhargava Arthava veda (the Chhand Upastha). Pre-Persian evidence of Indian links with Iran and Syria are well known. The first unique "Persian" dynasties became known to the Europeans much later after Darius' conquests.