Multi Role Helicopters (MRH) to be inducted into Indian Navy

[Rikbo88]

I think the indian navy is quite fortunate to be able to acquire these helicopters albeit with slightly crippled sensors. The only question is the price that will be paid to get updates and support and spare parts. Its probably a price that india has foreseen and are getting use to. Are there any other US weapons systems that IDF are happy with regarding support and maintenance and value lifecycle.

Also, not sure what you mean by "crippled sensors". Both vendor aircraft have met the NSQRs for the IN so I do not see any capability shortfalls here. If you are referring to US Navy fielded systems then, as I have noted, there can be differences between those systems used on the 70B and US Navy aircraft. This is sometimes due to the restriction in exporting what are considered sensitive technologies by the US government. But, I do not believe that is an issue here.

 

[Sridhar]

Lockheed Martin Eyes Dual Helicopter Bid Strategy for India Deal


Published October 24, 2012 | By admin

SOURCE: Bloomberg News

Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT) said it may offer India a mixed helicopter offering as it competes for an order for more than $2 billion worth of maritime aircraft.Lockheed, based in Bethesda, Maryland, and United Technologies Corp. (UTX)'s Sikorsky are trying to tempt India with an offering comprised of the more capable MH-60R helicopter to fight against ships coupled with the basic MH-60S to help lower costs, said George Barton, vice president for business development at Lockheed Martin Mission Systems and Sensors. India is poised to formally kick off the competition for at least 75 naval helicopters.

The 2008 terrorist attacks on Mumbai and growing trade have driven India to put increased focus on controlling sea-lanes approaching the country. The heightened concern about threats from the sea is shared by Middle East and southeast Asian states, providing a sales opportunity for defense contractors at a time other markets are contracting.

"The maritime helicopter market is unique in that countries have to protect the sea-lines of communications," Barton said in an interview at the Euronaval maritime conference at Le Bourget on the northern outskirts of Paris.

Lockheed Martin and Sikorsky, who developed the MH-60R for the U.S. Navy and sold the system to Australia last year, see Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, as well as Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand among potential buyers, Barton said. Thailand last year already agreed to buy the MH-60S.

The next big competition for the MH-60R will be in Denmark. The country is expected to take a decision on who will provide nine maritime helicopters before year-end, Barton said. The competition pits the MH-60R against the AgustaWestland AW159 being developed by Finmeccanica SpA (FNC)'s helicopter arm for the U.K. The two competitors also are doing battle in South Korea, where a decision to provide eight helicopters is likely next year.
Lockheed Martin Eyes Dual Helicopter Bid Strategy for India Deal | idrw.org

 

[Rikbo88]

Thanks for keeping us all informed Sridhar. This is not unexpected. But as I have noted before the MRH decision should greatly influence this follow-on purchase. Unless the IN is not happy with the MRH aircraft they purchase that aircraft should be the front runner for next competition. I find the words "more capable" interesting. More capable than what? All candidate aircraft will have to meet all the requirements so they should be on equal footing. The IN has also already seemed to indicate that it does not consider commonality with the USN to be of great importance and that was a big factor with the Australia decision. I think cost ( both initial and life cycle maintenance) will be the major decision factor here and the S-70B has always proven to be cheaper than the 60R and likely the NH90. The other countries mentioned as 60R candidates probably have a more vested interest in commonality with the USN as well as being more receptive to using the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) purchase method which India has rejected. I doubt Singapore will buy the 60R as they already have 6 S-70B aircraft, they are pleased with the aircraft, and are likely to buy more. Sikorsky is in the envious position of having two viable candidates but I hope and believe the S-70B will prevail for both competitions.
Should be an interesting couple of months coming up.

 

[Rikbo88]

Raytheon has begun the process of providing the MK-54 advanced light weight digital torpedo to the Indian Navy for its P-8I long range maritime reconnaissance aircraft buy. I led the effort to integrate this weapon on the S-70B so this would add a common weapon to both aircraft types. Obvious huge advantages in having a common torpedo in terms of cost, training, maintenance, logistics, etc. The full capabilities of the MK-54 Mod 1 torpedo have been fully integrated into the S-70B along with an outstanding tactical situation display capability when an attack scenario is initiated.
Having worked with Raytheon and the Naval Undersea Warfare Center (NUWC) folks let me say this weapon represents a huge leap in capability for torpedoes and out distances it's nearest competitor (Eurotorp MU-90) by a substantial margin in terms of capability and performance. Another reason to select the S-70B.

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topsto...plies_MK54_torpedoes_Indian_Navy_aircraft.htm

 

[LurkerBaba]

Somewhat related (to the NH90)


NHIndustries has delivered the second NH90 NFH (Nato Frigate Helicopter) to the Norwegian Armed Forces.

"We are extremely pleased to deliver this helicopter because we know how important this new helicopter is for the Norwegian Armed Forces," said Xavier Poupardin, delegated managing director of NHIndustries.

The NH90 NFH features a large full composite airframe, a fully integrated weapon system and a quadruplex Fly-by-Wire flight control system for reduced Pilot's workload and enhanced flight characteristics.

Norway takes delivery of a new NH90 NFH | Vertical - Helicopter News
@Rikbo88

 

[Rikbo88]

Somewhat related (to the NH90)


NHIndustries has delivered the second NH90 NFH (Nato Frigate Helicopter) to the Norwegian Armed Forces.

"We are extremely pleased to deliver this helicopter because we know how important this new helicopter is for the Norwegian Armed Forces," said Xavier Poupardin, delegated managing director of NHIndustries.

The NH90 NFH features a large full composite airframe, a fully integrated weapon system and a quadruplex Fly-by-Wire flight control system for reduced Pilot's workload and enhanced flight characteristics.

Norway takes delivery of a new NH90 NFH | Vertical - Helicopter News
@Rikbo88

Leave it to NHI to try and put a "happy face" on a delivery that is 6 years late. Not mention if the bird delivered is a "full up" NFH version. The real proof will come when the aircraft is put into service and to see how it performs. Be interesting to see if Norway shares any info once this aircraft enters service. Cannot question all the advanced technology that has gone into this aircraft, but is it mature enough to operate at or near full capability? NHI's track record on this aspect is abysmal! The data & history on this model aircraft says NO! Good luck Norway!
I am having my doubts on India announcing anything by the end of this year. If they do not the entire program will likely need to be rebid by both vendors since pricing is way out of date.

 

[Armand2REP]

Leave it to NHI to try and put a "happy face" on a delivery that is 6 years late. Not mention if the bird delivered is a "full up" NFH version. The real proof will come when the aircraft is put into service and to see how it performs. Be interesting to see if Norway shares any info once this aircraft enters service. Cannot question all the advanced technology that has gone into this aircraft, but is it mature enough to operate at or near full capability? NHI's track record on this aspect is abysmal! The data & history on this model aircraft says NO! Good luck Norway!
I am having my doubts on India announcing anything by the end of this year. If they do not the entire program will likely need to be rebid by both vendors since pricing is way out of date.

The biggest problem now is windshield cracking in varying temperatures. If that is enough to keep one from placing an order, so be it. It's operational deployment has been better than expected.

 

[abingdonboy]

What is going on on the front? Not heard much for a whoile

 

[Armand2REP]

What is going on on the front? Not heard much for a whoile

The Spanish have been using it in Astan and it performs well except for needing replacement windshields far too often. They are made in UK so what do you expect?

 

[LurkerBaba]

Somewhat Related


The U.S. Navy is selling nine MH-60R Seahawk helicopters and associated support to Denmark.

Valued at approximately $686 million, this is the second U.S. foreign military sales (FMS) procurement for the MH-60R, following Australia's FMS selection in 2011.

The Seahawks will replace the Danish Westland Lynx Mk 90B helicopter fleet, which entered service in 2000. The first MH-60R helicopter is expected to deploy with Danish warships by 2016.

In addition to its primary mission of anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare, the MH-60R Seahawk also performs search and rescue, troop transport, medical evacuation, ship-to-ship replenishment, and humanitarian relief operations.

Denmark purchases U.S. Navy MH-60R Seahawk helicopters | NAVAIR - U.S. Navy Naval Air Systems Command - Navy and Marine Corps Aviation Research, Development, Acquisition, Test and Evaluation
@Rikbo88

 

[Rikbo88]

The biggest problem now is windshield cracking in varying temperatures. If that is enough to keep one from placing an order, so be it. It's operational deployment has been better than expected.

One has to wonder if a manufacturer cannot even get something as simple as a windshield right then what does that bode for the more complex aspects of those aircraft? This relatively simple issue makes one question how much testing this aircraft has undergone before being released for customer use. Given all the other customer issues, it would seem NHI is using its customers as a testing facility.

 

[Armand2REP]

One has to wonder if a manufacturer cannot even get something as simple as a windshield right then what does that bode for the more complex aspects of those aircraft? This relatively simple issue makes one question how much testing this aircraft has undergone before being released for customer use. Given all the other customer issues, it would seem NHI is using its customers as a testing facility.

Considering the windshield is made by a UK sub-contractor, it doesn't really bode anything about the complex aspects of the aircraft. It is not something that is simulated for faulty English plexi.

 

[Rikbo88]

Considering the windshield is made by a UK sub-contractor, it doesn't really bode anything about the complex aspects of the aircraft. It is not something that is simulated for faulty English plexi.

True Armand, but it goes to testing of the overall aircraft which is NHI's responsibility.

 

[Armand2REP]

True Armand, but it goes to testing of the overall aircraft which is NHI's responsibility.

Some things just won't be known until you put it in the field. It is covered under contract at NHI expense to fix the problem.

 

[Rikbo88]

It is a relatively minor issue and you are correct that no amount of testing can duplicate actual fielded operations. Be interesting to see if NHI can address their delivery issues. This may all be a mute point as it appears the IN is not going to announce anything, which leads me to believe a new RFP may be in be works. Have you heard anything on how the NFH model is being received by those operators using it?

 

[Rikbo88]

Some things just won't be known until you put it in the field. It is covered under contract at NHI expense to fix the problem.

Some good articles on NH90 NFH & TTH field deployment in the latest issue of Defense Helicopter.

 

[Lubov]

Re: India issues RFI for multi-role naval helicopters

I read the whole thread and i can't stop laughing. You guys are nuts. Because of if that statement is true:

They also need to be able to fit in shipboard hangars with a length of 15.5m (50.8ft), a width of 5.5m and a height of 5.3m.

CH-53 - don't fit in length (17,22 m. with folded blades)
SH-70 - don't fit in length (16,36 m. with folded blades)
EC725 - don't fit in length (16,79 m. with folded blades)
MH-53 - don't fit in height (7,6 m.)
AW101 - don't fit in length and height (19,53 m. with folded blades and 6,62 m.)
Ka-27, Ka-31 - don't fit in height (5,5 m.)

NH90 pretty much only one who fit in dimensions.

 

[Rikbo88]

Re: India issues RFI for multi-role naval helicopters

I read the whole thread and i can't stop laughing. You guys are nuts. Because of if that statement is true:


CH-53 - don't fit in length (17,22 m. with folded blades)
SH-70 - don't fit in length (16,36 m. with folded blades)
EC725 - don't fit in length (16,79 m. with folded blades)
MH-53 - don't fit in height (7,6 m.)
AW101 - don't fit in length and height (19,53 m. with folded blades and 6,62 m.)
Ka-27, Ka-31 - don't fit in height (5,5 m.)

NH90 pretty much only one who fit in dimensions.

S-70B blades & tail rotor pylon folded is 496 inches or 12.6 meters. So, should easily fit I believe.

 

[Hemant Gaikwad]

Re: India issues RFI for multi-role naval helicopters

I really hope that the Navy thinks out of the box on this one and also considers the V-22 Osprey as an option if it fits in our carrier elevators ... it will really boost the navys operational range. I dont think the Osprey should have any issues fitting breadth wise ... its only the length thats the issue

 

[SilentKiller]

Re: India issues RFI for multi-role naval helicopters

I really hope that the Navy thinks out of the box on this one and also considers the V-22 Osprey as an option if it fits in our carrier elevators ... it will really boost the navys operational range. I dont think the Osprey should have any issues fitting breadth wise ... its only the length thats the issue

V-22, too big for our navy.