Multi Role Helicopters (MRH) to be inducted into Indian Navy

[Bhurki]

You can simply say that USA is making India it's bitch.. the process has started , the more weapons we buy from USA , the more severe the threat of sanctions is for us. Because they will get huge leverage

Can't back out now..
Support for c17, c130, apache, chinook, p8, rq9 comes solely from US without any ToT. Add to that F404 that powers tejas or f414 that is supposed to power future HAL endeavours
Russians provided complete tech transfer on almost everything, be it Mig 21, Mig 27, Su Mki platforms or their engines..

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Was the deal for 24 MH-60R ASW helicopters signed during the2+2 dialogue?
Any updates?

 

[abhay rajput]

Can't back out now..
Support for c17, c130, apache, chinook, p8, rq9 comes solely from US without any ToT. Add to that F404 that powers tejas or f414 that is supposed to power future HAL endeavours
Russians provided complete tech transfer on almost everything, be it Mig 21, Mig 27, Su Mki platforms or their engines..

Well Russian haven't threaten to sanctions us because they don't have the capacity.. moreover only Apache and Chinook spare are needed, we can arrange spare for p8 and transport fleet . As far as engine is considered , I believe 114 aircraft are for this purpose. Moreover Iran is still keeping there f14 aircraft flying, haven't they..? There is a reason why these are the last foreign aircraft.

 

[Bhurki]

we can arrange spare for p8 and transport fleet

How?
C17 and C130 engines and other essential subsystems are proprietary to LM and only supplied through FMS. P8 due to its sensors is even more controlled.

Moreover Iran is still keeping there f14 aircraft flying, haven't they..?

Hardly.. Out of 80 bought only 15-20 were thought to be operational by US int a couple deacdes ago.
Even in case of an emergency, they were able to muster no more than 25, and that too because of efforts through Iran-Contra thing. Today its certain they can put only single digits into the air using the remaining fleet for cannibalization.

I believe 114 aircraft are for this purpose.

I believe meaningful ToT with regards to engine tech wouldn't happen. Certainly not if India haggles for the price to be under $20B.

 

[Bhurki]

Well Russian haven't threaten to sanctions us because they don't have the capacity.

Considering Russia has provided India with destroyers, frigates, corvettes, radars, its only usable tank regiments, brahmos, its only SSN, its only Air carrier, advanced VVER reactors, sukhoi, mig with full ToT.. Its a bit shameless to say Russia doesn't have capacity.

 

[abhay rajput]

Considering Russia has provided India with destroyers, frigates, corvettes, radars, its only usable tank regiments, brahmos, its only SSN, its only Air carrier, advanced VVER reactors, sukhoi, mig with full ToT.. Its a bit shameless to say Russia doesn't have capacity.

I meant to say there don't have dollars do they..? And I have also said that they haven't threaten to sanctions us.. look at USA every word comes form there mouth ends in sanctions.

 

[Atcjurvin]

TOT is a joke in case of USA and if anyone believes that they will give you then plz go and drink bleach.

 

[abhay rajput]

How?
C17 and C130 engines and other essential subsystems are proprietary to LM and only supplied through FMS. P8 due to its sensors is even more controlled.

Hardly.. Out of 80 bought only 15-20 were thought to be operational by US int a couple deacdes ago.
Even in case of an emergency, they were able to muster no more than 25, and that too because of efforts through Iran-Contra thing. Today its certain they can put only single digits into the air using the remaining fleet for cannibalization.

I believe meaningful ToT with regards to engine tech wouldn't happen. Certainly not if India haggles for the price to be under $20B.

They are but we can arrange the spare parts from them from civilian airlines. Sensor are not replaced on day to day basis. Lastly we really don't have any idea how many f14 of Iran's are airworthy. All of these are speculation like our nuclear weapons. As for your last point see the image below.

 

[abhay rajput]

TOT is a joke when considering USA and if anyone believes that they will give you then plz go and drink bleach.

Well they have openly declined about that..

 

[Bhurki]

They are but we can arrange the spare parts from them from civilian airlines

What airlines operate aircraft with PW2000 and RRAE2100? Other than avionics, there's very little that c17 shares with civilian airliners.

Lastly we really don't have any idea how many f14 of Iran's are airworthy.

I just told you.. They had a grand total of 180 or so engines and 80 airframes. Both have defined hours after which critical faults will stop them from being airworthy. This is accompanied by various other factors like shelf life etc. Unless they can source those engines or make their own, they cant fly them...

All of these are speculation like our nuclear weapons

Nuclear weapone have 100% indigenous content unlike imported hardware like aircrafts

As for your last point see the image below.

Then there's news like this..
Kaveri jet Engine crash: DRDO, French company talks on Kaveri jet engine crash https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...eri-jet-engine-crash/articleshow/70684809.cms
To be fair, i have my doubts until final contract signing happens.
Even then, safran has propsed to 'help develop' this tech rather clear ToT like in case of Al31.

 

[asianobserve]

TOT is a joke in case of USA and if anyone believes that they will give you then plz go and drink bleach.

So what cutting edge tech has India developed out of "vast" Russian TOT?

 

[Assassin 2.0]

So what cutting edge tech has India developed out of "vast" Russian TOT?

Nuclear submarines.............

 

[Holy Triad]

So what cutting edge tech has India developed out of "vast" Russian TOT?

Stop Schilling for a foreign country......



there is no honor in critiquing one country on behalf other country...

 

[Bhurki]

So what cutting edge tech has India developed out of "vast" Russian TOT?

India was solely culpable for developing tech or not. The fact remains that Russia gave every help that was reasonable.
SSN is a prized asset, much more than a A/c or even ssbn. You don't just transfer that to another country especially when you're using it yourselves( Akula).
India just wasnt able to make the most out of its relationship.
Since this page is about helicopters, look at new program by china to incorporate russian expertise and create a heavy lift helicopter with payload of 15 tons.
All this even when china has most of its heli requirements fulfilled by france.
One can only imagine the kind of resulta that would have been achieved if Indian MIC could make the best of its Russian connection.

 

[abhay rajput]

What airlines operate aircraft with PW2000 and RRAE2100? Other than avionics, there's very little that c17 shares with civilian airliners.

I just told you.. They had a grand total of 180 or so engines and 80 airframes. Both have defined hours after which critical faults will stop them from being airworthy. This is accompanied by various other factors like shelf life etc. Unless they can source those engines or make their own, they cant fly them...

Nuclear weapone have 100% indigenous content unlike imported hardware like aircrafts

Then there's news like this..
Kaveri jet Engine crash: DRDO, French company talks on Kaveri jet engine crash https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...eri-jet-engine-crash/articleshow/70684809.cms
To be fair, i have my doubts until final contract signing happens.
Even then, safran has propsed to 'help develop' this tech rather clear ToT like in case of Al31.

C17 uses engines with Boeing 757.
P8 also has common engines with civilian airline aircrafts. Plus they uses some common parts to keep the overall cost low. Only c130 engines don't have any civilian variants.
My point was that we literally have no idea how many f14 are operational. We can only speculate . Lastly my comment about nuclear weapons was meant to say that we don't know just like we don't know how many nuclear weapons we have..!
And your link is from August, kadi ninda visited October 8. France will only give tot if we order large number of aircrafts. IAF chief statement that these 114 aircraft will be last foreign aircraft means we are hoping for engine tot with these aircraft.

 

[Bhurki]

C17 uses engines with Boeing 757.

Good luck finding 757 operators in India.

P8 also has common engines with civilian airline aircrafts.

Too bad civilian aircrafts dont have magnetic anomaly detectors or APY10 radars. If you can't get them serviced, the P8 is as good as a 737 with a couple dozen seats.

 

[asianobserve]

C17 uses engines with Boeing 757.
P8 also has common engines with civilian airline aircrafts. Plus they uses some common parts to keep the overall cost low. Only c130 engines don't have any civilian variants.
My point was that we literally have no idea how many f14 are operational. We can only speculate . Lastly my comment about nuclear weapons was meant to say that we don't know just like we don't know how many nuclear weapons we have..!
And your link is from August, kadi ninda visited October 8. France will only give tot if we order large number of aircrafts. IAF chief statement that these 114 aircraft will be last foreign aircraft means we are hoping for engine tot with these aircraft.

C-130 has a civilian freighter variant known as L-100.

 

[abhay rajput]

Good luck finding 757 operators in India.

Too bad civilian aircrafts dont have magnetic anomaly detectors or APY10 radars. If you can't get them serviced, the P8 is as good as a 737 with a couple dozen seats.

There is absolutely no need for that because USA can't stop the spares for civilian aircraft , they can strictly control but hey so does drug , and many other illegal things but they are still available . Regarding last point , mad is not that useful at all , otherwise USA would have mad on there p8. Regarding radar , it's only need servicing which can be done locally, and if parts are need to be replaced then we can replace it's parts don't forget we have bought additional radars with p8 , Rafale and mostly all deals. Moreover we can now build radars ourselves , ofcourse it would not be as good as apy10 but it will get the job done.. Lastly don't think radars need replacement that soon , they work for a long time.

 

[Bhurki]

Regarding last point , mad is not that useful at all , otherwise USA would have mad on there p8.

You need to make some sense to keep on talking.
Why would IN go to lengths to include MAD into the package if it wasnt useful?

Moreover we can now build radars ourselves , ofcourse it would not be as good as apy10 but it will get the job done.

There's a huge difference in developing a prototype and then incorporating that design to various platforms, testing, validating and deploying operationally.

they can strictly control but hey so does drug , and many other illegal things but they are still available .

Wow... No comments.. !.

 

[WolfPack86]

India Readying $2.6 Billion US Naval Helicopter Deal Ahead Of Trump Visit
India is set to give final approval to a $2.6 billion deal for military helicopters from US defence firm Lockheed Martin ahead of a visit by US President Donald Trump this month, defence and industry sources said.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government is trying to pull out all the stops for President Trump's trip in a bid to reaffirm strategic ties between the two countries, which have been buffeted by sharp differences over trade, to counter China.

India's defence purchases from the United States have reached $17 billion since 2007 as it has pivoted away from traditional supplier Russia, looking to modernise its military and narrow the gap with China.


PM Modi's cabinet committee on security is expected to clear the purchase of 24 MH-60R Seahawk helicopters for the Indian Navy in the next two weeks, a defence official and an industry source briefed on the matter separately told Reuters.

"It's a government-to-government deal, it is close," said the industry source.

To cut short lengthy negotiations between Lockheed and the Indian government, the helicopters that will be deployed on India's warships will be bought through the US foreign military sales route, under which the two governments will agree details of the deal.

President Trump is expected in India around February 24 on his first official visit to the country, although no formal announcement has yet been made.

Both countries are separately working on a limited trade agreement ahead of the trip, after earlier imposing tit-for-tat tariffs on each other's imports.

President Trump has called India the "tariff king of the world" but the Modi government has been trying to address some of his concerns.

Trade officials have pointed to large-scale US arms purchases, from surveillance planes to Apache and Chinook helicopters, as proof of India's willingness to tighten strategic ties.

The multirole helicopters will be equipped with Hellfire missiles and are meant to help the Indian Navy track submarines in the Indian Ocean, where China is expanding its presence.

Many of India's warships are without any helicopters because of years of underfunding, and the navy had sought their acquisition as a top priority.

The government outlined only a modest rise in its 2020/21 defence spending to $73.65 billion in the budget on February 1, of which a part will go towards making a down payment on the helicopter purchase, a defence official said.

"We expect a positive announcement soon on the helicopters," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of service rules. "There are limited resources, but there is an allocation."

The US State Department approved the sale of the choppers to India last year along with radars, torpedoes and 10 AGM-114 Hellfire missiles.

The clearance came after the Trump administration rolled out a new "Buy American" plan in 2018 that had relaxed restrictions on sales, saying it would bolster the American defence industry and create jobs at home.

The United States has also offered India the armed version of Guardian drones that were originally authorized for sale as unarmed for surveillance purposes, the first such approval for a country outside the NATO alliance.

India plans to buy 30 of these unmanned aircraft for surveillance of the Indian Ocean, at a cost estimated to be about $2.5 billion, from General Atomics.

However, the defence official said the deal is unlikely immediately because of lack of funds.
https://www.defencenews.in/article/...l-Helicopter-Deal-Ahead-Of-Trump-Visit-809247