MRCA News & Discussions (V)

Which aircraft do you think has a better chance of winning MMRCA race NOW??

  • Eurofighter Typhoon

    Votes: 29 26.9%
  • Dassault Rafale

    Votes: 52 48.1%
  • Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

    Votes: 17 15.7%
  • Saab Gripen NG

    Votes: 7 6.5%
  • Mikoyan MiG-35

    Votes: 3 2.8%

  • Total voters
    108
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p2prada

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Oh, I see. I guess the Minister of Finance will have some input as well then since he's the one with the bag of money?
IAF will take that into consideration before submitting it's choice to MoD. Finance ministry will be involved, but I guess force modernization will still take top priority over internal political mileage. Considering they have no issues with a $30Billion FGFA along with a domestic AMCA project, they will not unnecessarily create hurdles. IAF is getting it's due after 25 years after all.
 

nrj

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Boeing Unveils New Hornet Options at Aero India

Improvements include the Next Generation Cockpit outfitted with a new 11-by-19 inch large area display with integrated intuitive graphics and increased situational awareness.

"Basically, it's one big iPad, which provides the pilot with a large increase in display surface area," Boeing test pilot Ricardo Traven said.

Other unique features include improvements in the Hornet's stealth and range a stealthy conformal fuel tank and a conformal enclosed weapons pod, for example. The weapons pod can carry a combination of AIM-120 air-to-air missiles and air-to-ground bombs, with each Super Hornet capable of carrying three pods. The conformal fuel tank also reduces drag.

Range and speed are also increased with the GE-414 Enhanced Performance Engine (EPE).

"When you reduce the drag with the stealthy weapons pod and with an engine with 20 percent more thrust, you greatly increase range," Traven said.

Configuration flexibility improvements include an internal Infra-Red Search and Track (IRST) system and a new missile and laser warning system.

Not included in Boeing's MMRCA bid were conformal pods, IRST and the Next Generation Cockpit, due largely to requirement limitations at the time of the submission of proposals, but the systems could be included at a future date, a Boeing representative said.

DefenseNews

Is it a 1080p TV? Would love to watch a movie while flying. :p

Maybe you can as it appears to be not just TV but ipad :)

New Super Hornet cockpit

 
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ppgj

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adding on -

Boeing Unveils New Hornet Options at Aero India
Aero India: Boeing's advanced Super Hornet upgrade options

 
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Pintu

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http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...in-next-fiscal-antony/articleshow/7462017.cms

9 Feb, 2011, 07.31PM IST,IANS
$10.4-billion aircraft contract in next fiscal: Antony

BANGALORE: The $10.4-billion Indian Air Force tender for 126 combat aircraft will be finalised in the next fiscal beginning April this year, Defence Minister A. K. Antony said here on Wednesday.

The contract, described as "the mother of all defence deals," will be based only on the merits of the six competing aircraft, he stressed.

"I hope the contract will be finalised by next financial year," Antony told a press conference here at the Aero India 2011 show.

"The contract will be finalised on the basis of the merits of the aircraft," he said, replying to a question on the tender that was issued in August 2007.

The minister emphasised that there would be no political decisions or interference in defence acquisition.

"The process of request for proposals (RFP) involves a technical evaluation committee and a cost negotiation committee. Only then will the report come to the government for a final decision," he added.

American majors Boeing's F/A-18 and Lockheed Martin's F-16, Swedish Saab Gripen, Russian MiG-RAC's MiG-35, French Dassault's Rafale and European consortium EADS' Eurofighter Typhoon are competing for the contract.

The tendering process had almost derailed in late December when an important file on the offsets proposals from the six companies went missing and was later found on the roadside in Khelgaon Marg in south Delhi.

The competing aircraft have already gone through the process of flight and weapons trials and the evaluation report of the Indian Air Force (IAF) has already been submitted to the defence ministry for a final decision.

To a question about the US seeking orders for the combat aircraft from the two American firms in the fray as a payback for the civil nuclear deal and support for the permanent UN Security Council seat, the defence minister said the RFP provisions would be completely followed and that he would not be able to predict the outcome of the tender at the moment.

"There will be no other consideration except what is laid down in the RFP (Request for Proposal)," he added.

The race for the much sought-after deal has been heating up with five of the six aircraft in the contest showcasing their capabilities in the flying and static display at the five-day Aero India.

Only the Russian MiG-35 was missing from all the action that began here on Wednesday.
 

thecoolone

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European fighters lead MMRCA race
- Ajai Shukla / Yelahanka/ Bangalore February 10, 2011

It was a no-holds-barred duel at Aero India 2011 for a $10-billion (Rs 45,500 crore) prize. Turn by turn, four of the world's most advanced fighter aircraft roared into the sky, keenly aware of the watching eyes of Indian ministry of defence (MoD) officials who would decide which of them was best suited for the Indian Air Force's order of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA).
Their performances mirrored each fighter's fortunes in the MMRCA race. In multiple interviews with MoD officials, IAF pilots and vendor representatives, Business Standard has learned exactly where the MMRCA race currently stands. None of the contenders have been officially eliminated in the IAF's flight evaluation report, but the heavy liabilities that some are carrying have already reduced this contest to an all-European race.
The clearest performance was that of the Russian MiG-35, which has not shown up at all at Aero India 2011. After multiple problems during the flight evaluation trials, it is regarded by the IAF as little more than an upgraded MiG-29. The Russian fighter is effectively out of the race.
Only marginally less dismal was the Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper, which travelled to Bangalore but did not participate in the inaugural aerobatics shoot-out.

Defence minister A K Antony insisted today that political considerations would play no part in the MMRCA selection, but his officials were less diplomatic. "The F-16 is in the race only in name; the US will not be allowed to supply the same aircraft to both India and Pakistan," said a senior MoD official. "Besides, the F-16 has come to the end of its development cycle. There is no scope for improving it further."

Lockheed Martin seems to know its India campaign is blighted. Over the past two months, company officials and even the Pentagon, the US defence headquarters, have shifted the focus to the F-35, the fifth generation stealth fighter that Lockheed Martin is developing. But while the Pentagon's acquisition chief, Ashton Carter, has signalled American willingness to include India in the F-35 programme, the Indian MoD is not persuaded.

On getting a fifth generation fighter from the US, Antony replied, "Already we are engaged with Russia to produce a fifth generation fighter"¦. No other country has offered us these technologies in the past. We are way ahead now [in the partnership with Russia]. There is no question of going back."

The other American contender, the F/A-18 Super Hornet, regaled spectators with a superb display of combat manoeuvring, Showcasing its history as a combat fighter, the F/A-18 was the only contender that flew with missiles fitted under its wings, which is avoided in aerobatics because of the resulting drag. But though the Super Hornet was the tightest turner, its aerobatics were conducted at slow speeds. That sluggishness is also true of its campaign in India.

"We scored the F/A-18 poorly during flight evaluation," says an IAF officer who was closely involved.

That leaves the three European contenders: the Eurofighter (from a four-country consortium), the Dasault Rafale (from france) and the Saab Gripen (Sweden). Each of them put up a superb display of high-speed aerobatics, performing loops, barrel rolls, and spells of inverted flying that clearly pushed the boundaries of the aircrafts' flight envelopes.

The Gripen showed enormous agility in its vertical handling, something that would allow it to climb above the enemy fighter in a dogfight, to an advantageous killing position. At the end of his display, the Gripen's pilot displayed how little runway the fighter needs to land, stopping dead in barely 900 ft.

But IAF officers point out two key drawbacks to the Gripen's campaign: "The Gripen's AESA radar is the least developed of all the MMRCA contenders; and, being a single-engine fighter, it carries significantly less weaponry than the big twin-engine contenders."

The twin-engine advantage was immediately evident when the Rafale and the Eurofighter took to the skies, lashing the spectators with a blast of sound. There was little to choose between both those aircraft, their High-G (sharp turn); High-Alpha (slow flying) aerobatics leaving the spectators clapping.

"The MMRCA contest is now between the Eurofighter and the Rafale," says an IAF officer associated with the flight evaluation. "It will boil down to price. But if the MoD accepts a smaller fighter, with a radar that has some way to go, the economically-priced Gripen could be the dark horse that wins."
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/european-fighters-lead-mmrca-race/424676/
 

gogbot

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Ajai Shukla report on the MMRCA deal so far

The clearest performance was that of the Russian MiG-35, which has not shown up at all at Aero India 2011. After multiple problems during the flight evaluation trials, it is regarded by the IAF as little more than an upgraded MiG-29. The Russian fighter is effectively out of the race.
"We scored the F/A-18 poorly during flight evaluation," says an IAF officer who was closely involved.
But IAF officers point out two key drawbacks to the Gripen's campaign: "The Gripen's AESA radar is the least developed of all the MMRCA contenders; and, being a single-engine fighter, it carries significantly less weaponry than the big twin-engine contenders."
"The MMRCA contest is now between the Eurofighter and the Rafale," says an IAF officer associated with the flight evaluation. "It will boil down to price. But if the MoD accepts a smaller fighter, with a radar that has some way to go, the economically-priced Gripen could be the dark horse that wins."
 

thakur_ritesh

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http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...in-next-fiscal-antony/articleshow/7462017.cms

9 Feb, 2011, 07.31PM IST,IANS
$10.4-billion aircraft contract in next fiscal: Antony
i recall making a comment last year that this deal could take another 2 years in getting the final decision and then i remember maroof raza as well saying, sometime last year, this deal could take another 2 years, though that should not be end of it either, i suspect if there are going to any further delays and by chance the decision was to be postponed for 2013, i dare say mmrca would eventually be scrapped either in favor of f35 or additional orders for su30s and pakfa/fgfa and/or ngfa, we have certainly not heard the last on this as yet!
 

black eagle

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MMRCA Contract By Sept, Unless Spoilsports Shaft Our Decision: IAF Chief

"Price negotiations for the MMRCA begin in a week or two. I am hopeful of a decision by September this year, unless dissatisfied vendors put a spoke in the wheel (sic)," said Indian Air Force chief PV Naik today at Aero India 2011. The chief pointed out that all hurdles pertaining to offsets had been sorted out, and that if price negotiations began on schedule in the next two weeks, he was hopeful of a final contract decision by September. "But you know how it is," the chief said, "Others may try to put a spoke in the wheel. And if that happens, everything takes its own course."

In other developments, the IAF chief announced that the IAF Mirage-2000 upgrade contract would be signed before the end of March this year. "The draft report is with the MoD, it will be concluded this financial year," said the IAF Deputy Chief. Air Chief Naik commented, "It was a very difficult negotiation, but results will now come very fast."

The IAF chief announced that his service would shortly order 50 more Mi-17-V5 helicopters from Russia as a follow on to the 80 contracted in 2008 and which begin delivery in March.


http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/02/mmrca-contract-by-sept-unless.html
 

p2prada

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AH! They are hurrying it up with the Mirage deal. Perhaps they don't want the French to put a "spoke" using the UPG deal if IAF has already selected EF or Gripen.
 

black eagle

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India to award USD 11 bn M-MRCA deal within next one month


BANGALORE: India will pick up by next one month the vendor for its biggest-ever military fighter deal for purchasing 126 Medium-Multirole Combat Aircraft at a cost of USD 11 billion, the contract of which is expected to be finalised by September.

Addressing a press conference here, Air Chief Marshal P V Naik said all the problems related to the offsets proposals have been sorted out and if the bid losers "don't put spokes in the wheel," the deal would be finalised in the given timeframe.

"We hope to start the contract negotiations in the next two to four weeks and the deal may be signed by September," he said.

The IAF had submitted its field evaluation trial report on July 30 last year and the Defence Ministry has been going through it to determine the aircraft meeting IAF's requirement.

Six aircraft including Russian MiG-35, American F-16 and F/A-18, Swedish Gripen, European Eurofighter and French Rafale are in the race for the multi-billion dollar contract.

Naik said "unless dissatisfied vendors put spokes", which may involve getting clearances from the Central Vigilance Commission or legal proceedings, the deal would be finalised by September -- in the next fiscal.

The IAF is planning to induct these aircraft to augment its number and replace the Russian-origin MiG series aircraft, which are on their way out of the service.

Complementing the IAF team involved in the evaluation trials, Naik said the process was a "complicated" one as each aircraft had to be tested for 600 different parameters by the IAF.

Under the procurement process, the Defence Ministry negotiates with the company offering the lowest price for the equipment required by respective services.

Asked about the procurement of new cluster bombs from American firm Textron, he said that would be first put on the Jaguar deep penetration fighters by the IAF.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...within-next-one-month/articleshow/7467489.cms
 

gogbot

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Price negotiations for the MMRCA begin in a week or two. I am hopeful of a decision by September this year, unless dissatisfied vendors put a spoke in the wheel (sic)," said Indian Air Force chief PV Naik today at Aero India 2011. The chief pointed out that all hurdles pertaining to offsets had been sorted out, and that if price negotiations began on schedule in the next two weeks, he was hopeful of a final contract decision by September. "But you know how it is," the chief said, "Others may try to put a spoke in the wheel. And if that happens, everything takes its own course."
Price negotiations for the MMRCA begin in a week or two.
Based on the process they described earlier for deal , can't remeber the source sorry.

Price negotiations happen , when they have already selected a candidate Plane A , and have a backup Plane B.
They will re-notiate the quoted price regarding plane A , and plane B. The lowest price will be selected for the second round of price negotiations.
Then the winner will be announced.

I what i read was accurate , they should be down to the final tow candidates right now , and according to Ajai Shukla quotes of IAF officers
they should be EF and Rafale.

The chief pointed out that all hurdles pertaining to offsets had been sorted out
why wouldn't they be Offsets can now also be funneled into civil aerospace ,
No doubt some portion is still military , by it is major concession on our part

"But you know how it is," the chief said, "Others may try to put a spoke in the wheel. And if that happens, everything takes its own course."
Any babu who wants to take advantage of situation may poke his head into the deal and start blackmailing.

best of luck to the MoD , IAF and MoF.
 

sandeepdg

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Multi-role jet deal in April, says Antony

BANGALORE: Defence minister A K Antony on Wednesday said the Centre may close the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal by April 2011.

Asked if the MMRCA deal would be influenced by the increasing role played by US in supporting India, Antony said, "Some more formalities are needed. We are progressing well. I am not an astrologer to say who will win the deal. But our policy is not country-centric. Further, there will be no political decision or interference over any defence acquisition, including the MMRCA."

About acquisition of helicopters for IAF, he said, "All acquisitions are proceeding well. It's tough to elaborate on details and exact timeframe but we are confident that IAF will get all that they want to fight for the country."

It would take another three years for induction of Tejas Mark II. "Our focus now is Mark I that will be inducted in 2012. Mark II should be inducted by 2015," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-in-April-says-Antony/articleshow/7464897.cms
 

thecoolone

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Eurofighter looks to India for partnership - The Times of India
TNN, Feb 11, 2011, 06.11am IST

BANGALORE: European consortium Eurofighter is looking at India as an industrial partner to support its Eurofighter Typhoon programme. The consortium wants to integrate India into its Eurofighter programme to co-develop and co-produce future upgrades, enhancements, new sub-systems and software, said Bernhard Gerwert, chairman of the Supervisory Board of Eurofighter and the CEO of Cassidian Air Systems.

The partnership is expected to catapult trained engineering capabilities in India and facilitate access to different technologies. "We are starting to develop a base for a comprehensive future supplier network which will plug India into the global Eurofighter supply chain," he said. Eurofighter is one of the six contenders for the Indian Air Force's 126 medium multi-role combat aicraft (MMRCA) deal worth $11 billion
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...India-for-partnership/articleshow/7472788.cms
 

thecoolone

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IAF chief's googly on multi-role aircraft
Ajai Shukla / Yelahanka/ Bangalore February 11, 2011, 0:16 IST
Says decision on Rs 45,500-cr buy within weeks; also assures Mirage deal conclusion next month.
Electrifying aerospace vendors at Aero India 2011 here, Indian Air Force chief, Air Chief Marshal P V Naik announced today that New Delhi would decide within two weeks about which medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) it would buy, and actually sign the $10 billion (Rs 45,500 crore) contract by September.
"The CNC (Cost Negotiation Committee) is likely to start in a week or two. Taking that as the datum and giving (the CNC) another six-eight months, the contract is likely to be signed in September," declared Naik.
The CNC is a group of officials that negotiates between the ministry of defence (MoD) and the winning vendor on a final price for the sale.

Naik's boss, defence minister A K Antony, had stated here yesterday that the globally-watched contract would be finalised by the end of the next financial year, 2011-2012, i.e. by March 2012. By setting the deadline six months earlier, Naik appears to have put the MoD under pressure.

Asked by Business Standard for a clarification, Naik's officiating deputy, Air Marshal R K Sharma, confirmed his chief's announcement. He said the winning vendor would be issued an invitation within two weeks to appear for cost negotiations, while the CNC would actually meet within two months. An invitation to a vendor to appear in a CNC is tantamount to announcing the winner of a contract.


"The DAC (the MoD's apex Defence Acquisition Council) will formalise the winner soon; we will then invite that company for negotiations," said Sharma.

Six fighters are competing for the IAF contract: Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet; Lockheed Martin's F-16IN Super Viper; the MiG Corporation's MiG-35; Saab's Gripen NG; Dassault's Rafale; and a four-nation European consortium's Eurofighter. Executives from these companies say they are baffled by Naik's announcement. Asked in late 2010 to rework their offset bids, and with no final date yet given for this, the MoD does not have a key element needed to decide a winner.

"Is the MoD going to decide the contract winner without examining the offset bids?" asks a bemused executive from one of the competing aircraft manufacturers.


'Technical coaching'
While no answers were forthcoming, the air chief did explain why little appears to have happened since July 2010, when the IAF gave its flight trial evaluation report to the MoD. Naik revealed the last six months had gone by in explaining to the MoD the technical nuances of the flight trials.

"There have been a lot of queries and counter-queries [between the MoD and the IAF]. It is such a complicated deal, and there is so much of technical detail involved"¦ so there was a lot of, shall we say, education to be done so that the report was clearly understood in all its manifestations," explained Naik.

The air chief also voiced his apprehension that the contract could be delayed by "dissatisfied vendors (who) put a spoke in the wheel", using allegations of wrongdoing to trigger long-running probes by investigation agencies.

Yesterday, a defensive Antony had announced that political considerations would play no role in deciding the winner. That seemed to suggest the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), which will be required to approve the contract after the CNC negotiates a final price, would merely rubber-stamp the IAF/MoD decision.

Other than the impending contract for 126 medium fighters to boost the IAF's dwindling numbers, the IAF chief also announced the impending conclusion, "within this financial year", of the contract to upgrade the air force's 20-year-old fleet of 52 Mirage-2000 medium fighters. This upgrade, the subject of bitter negotiations between the IAF and French contractor Thales, will give the Mirage-2000 another 20 years of service life, by fitting on a new radar and a modern cockpit with state-of-the-art avionics and electronic warfare equipment.

While Thales had initially demanded $52 million per aircraft, the deal has been concluded, say IAF sources to Business Standard, at $39 million (Rs 177 crore) per aircraft.
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/iaf-chief\s-googlymulti-role-aircraft/424776/
 
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thecoolone

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AERO INDIA: Boeing underlines Super Hornet's 'proven capability'

The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet's proven combat capability and reduced total ownership costs are Boeing's key discriminators in India's medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition, the company says.
"We absolutely believe that the Super Hornet is an ideal weapon system as a complement to the [Indian air force's Sukhoi] Su-30," says Kory Matthews, vice-president F/A-18 and EA-18G programmes for Boeing Military Aircraft. "Multi-role capability is at the sweet-spot of this fighter."
Matthews notes that the US Navy's Super Hornet fleet is currently being flown at a rate of around 120,000h per year, and that over 100,000h has already been amassed under combat conditions. Crucially for the US Hornet industry team here this week - which also includes GE Aviation and Raytheon - the type's APG-79 is the only combat-proven active electronically scanned array radar in the contest, he says.
In terms of through-life costs, the USN's operation of the F/A-18E/F has shown the type to be "highly reliable and with excellent maintainability", Matthews says. For example, an average of just 12 maintenance man hours are currently required per flight hour, he adds.
With India expected to issue a shortlist within the next few months to narrow its current six-strong field for the MMRCA programme, Matthews speculates that it could pick three of the twin-engine candidates to advance to the next phase. "We've offered a fully compliant proposal with the Super Hornet, and believe it's ideally suited," he says.
The F/A-18F Super Hornet flying at the show each day is doing so with what the Boeing official describes as an "operationally-relevant" weapons load. Totalling almost 1,220kg (4,000lb), this includes two each of Raytheon's AIM-9X and AIM-120 air-to-air missiles and two Mk 82-series bombs.
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...a-boeing-underlines-super-hornets-proven.html
 

black eagle

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Indian MMRCA tender RFP favours single engine aircraft: Lockheed Martin

Lockheed Martin, which is fielding its single engine F-16 in the Indian MMRCA competition,is of the view that the RFP for the tender actually favours single engine fighters due to its emphasis on life cycle costs.

As the life cycle costs of a single engine fighter are substantially lower than that of twin engine fighter, the former will have a clear edge over the latter in technical evaluation, said Orville Prinz, VP Business Development, India of Lockheed Martin. Prinz was speaking at a media briefing during the Aero India 2011 show.

The F-16 and the Saab Gripen are the only twin engine fighters in the $10 billion competition to sell 126 fighters to the IAF. The others, the Furofighter, the Boeing F/A 18 and the Russian MiG 35 are twin engine fighters.

http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defe...vours single engine aircraft: Lockheed Martin
 

black eagle

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AERO INDIA: Uncertainty over MMRCA time-frame
By Siva Govindasamy


India's highly-anticipated medium multi-role combat aircraft competition could be wrapped up by September, Indian air force chief PV Naik said at a press conference yesterday.


But industry observers believe that his statement was aimed at pushing the defence ministry into accelerating the decision making process.


"We submitted our report to the ministry in end-July [2010]. Thereafter, there were many queries and counter-queries. Many of the hurdles have been crossed and we believe the price negotiations will begin in a week or two. I'm hopeful of a decision by September," says Naik.


However, he added a caveat, saying that "dissatisfied vendors" may try to jeopardise the process. "You know how it is. Others may try to put a spoke in the wheel. And if that happens, everything takes its own course."


Observers say that senior air force officials are unhappy that the ministry's lengthy decision making process is affecting the service's operational readiness. They add that the six MMRCA contenders have also not submitted their offset documents - a requirement under India's military procurement process.



Price negotiations could also take months, they add, pointing to lengthy discussions between India and other countries like Russia and France for various procurements and upgrades.


The six contenders are the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin F-16IN, RSK MiG-35 and Saab Gripen IN. Some officials from the companies at the show expect India to make a decision within the next year.


A Boeing official sparked debate among the competitors at the show by predicting that three twin-engine aircraft will make the shortlist. Lockheed Martin and Saab were both quick to promote the through-life cost benefits of a single-engine design.


http://www.flightglobal.com/article...-india-uncertainty-over-mmrca-time-frame.html
 
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