MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

[icecoolben]

^^^^^ Though not signed the basic structure has been agreed upon!



http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/indias-fighter-upgrades-mirage-2000s-next-02891/

He is speculating a deal, anyway the m2000 can stand 15 more years without capability upgrade other than regular maintenance. But they do need missiles to fire don't they. Remember first batch of 1980s didn't come with TOT of missiles like R-77 came with Su-30 and we can't integrate russian missile into french stuff. Is everyone aware our Jaguar upgrade involves ASRAAMS from UK, which are dirt compared to R-73 and python-4,5. Still we need to integrate them on jaguar because it is british plane probably ASRAAM will be part of mirage upgrade too.

 

[maomao]

He is speculating a deal, anyway the m2000 can stand 15 more years without capability upgrade other than regular maintenance. But they do need missiles to fire don't they. Remember first batch of 1980s didn't come with TOT of missiles like R-77 came with Su-30 and we can't integrate russian missile into french stuff. Is everyone aware our Jaguar upgrade involves ASRAAMS from UK, which are dirt compared to R-73 and python-4,5. Still we need to integrate them on jaguar because it is british plane probably ASRAAM will be part of mirage upgrade too.

All the things you have mentioned makes sense, however, I was doubting Armand's claim that India has passed on the upgrades of Mirage2000s, which is very much on the cards!

 

[Crusader53]

What are we going to do just buying technology?

There ain't going to be any commercial spain off.

Production when closes at 2025, the technology will just vaporise to make way for AMCA production.

Just tell me what technology will counter china, both R-73 and ASRAAM will hit and burn J-10, in a war of attriction do you think 126 jets stand a chance chinese waves of 400 flankers, 200 J-10, 1000 F-7 and rest of their 2000 strong combat fleet

India will likely produce way more the the projected 126 Aircraft. Which, has been confirmed by several sources. Nonetheless, the winner will support the current fleet of Su-30MKI's, Mirage 2000's, Mig-29's, and of course LCA. Which, will hopefully be followed by the FGFA/PAK-FA.

 

[chex3009]

India will likely produce way more the the projected 126 Aircraft. Which, has been confirmed by several sources. Nonetheless, the winner will support the current fleet of Su-30MKI's, Mirage 2000's, Mig-29's, and of course LCA. Which, will hopefully be followed by the FGFA/PAK-FA.

That's what even i think, there's no point in limiting MMRCA to 126, it might be the initial order but its surely gonna rise.

 

[icecoolben]

1970 and 2000 - History Repeating itself for better or worse?

By the mid 1970s, the IAF was clearly in need of urgent re-equipment decisions. First off the mark was selection of the Jaguar strike fighter, to meet the IAF's urgent Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft (DPSA) requirement, to replace the Canberra and Hunter still soldiering on in this exacting role.

India requires replacement for obsolete combat aircraft with still 7 and 15 years to retire mig-27 and jaguar respectively, most believe MMRCA would lay emphsis on strike capability to replace these aging jets.

After many years of evaluation and negotiation, the Anglo-French fighter was contracted for, an interim batch of ex-RAF Jaguars being accepted to re-equip No. 14 Squadron. IAF pilots and technicians received conversion training with the RAF and British Aerospace in Lossiemouth, Coltishall and Warton before ferrying the first Jaguars to India in July 1979. These were followed by a batch of U.K. built Jaguars to re-equip No. 5 Squadron even as simultaneously, HAL prepared for production of the aircraft, its powerplants, avionics and accessories in India.

The evaluation starting in 2001 ended with an RFP relaese in 2007, decision expected in mid 2011 for downselect. The selection within 2 years after that. We have actually exceeded our capacity to drag evaluation and negotiatons by a considerable margin. our capabilities have improved so much!

The Indian Ministry of Defense approved in October 1978 acquisition of 150 Jaguars and concluded two agreements with the aircraft manufacturer in April 1979. While 40 Jaguars were imported in a fly away condition, the remaining 110 aircraft were to be licenced manufactured by the HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited) during 1982-89 in a phased manner. The direct supply aircraft were equipped with first generation Marconi inertial navigation and attack system named NAVWASS, which had low reliability and was grossly outdated. The Ministry, immediately after induction, had to sanction development of a second generation display attack ranging inertial navigation system named DARIN for its integration on HAL built Jaguars. The Ministry also sanctioned an ambitious retromodification program to upgrade the NAVWASS equipped direct supply Jaguar aircraft.

A need of 126 aircrafts, 18 supplied by original equipment manufacturer with our legendary aerospace enterprise, HAL licence producing 108 with option for 64 more. No matter how much hue and cry no manufacturer other than the Americans have deployed AESA radar which are presumed as the latest technology for aerial warfare, the latest aircraft in terms of airframe and avionics like Eurofighter and Rafale are not completely optimised for combat deployment. There is no authentic information to suggest that Eurofighter has ever launched a cruise missile and only now has it started dropping LGB, so infers not even a good enough air to ground platform at all. Despite news of target designator "damocles" development being complete, there is still no news of it being operational Rafale. Hence even in 5 years time Rafale would not be the most reliable air to ground platform to take over tactical or deep strike let alone carry Indian nukes as part of strategic forces command. With very few orders from french forces and no bright export prospects like the mirage2000, the french plane doesn't have the advantage of economies of scale to keep its costs tied down. Every new upgrade like AESA radar would cost an arm and leg for the buyer. The present mirage2000 upgrade stands testament to that. The next two Gripen NG and Mig-35 are as much paper planes as F-16 xl. Though very good aerodynamic platforms they suffer from a hanicap which is most important for any combat planes to be fielded, "lack of orders". The sweedish government will not order the plane till 2017 and reportedly it was revealed in the Brazil evaluation to be a risky option. The sweedish military industrial complex too has been shrinking drastically, the consolidation of aircraft platforms to the JAS-39 grippen has left its industry without much choice than to prop up this programme in an effort to keep up its experience in aircraft design engineering field from fading away like that of its europen counterparts, following the end of cold war sweeden's effeort to fund its national military programmes has also been curtailed, the JAS-39 Gripen A/B, C/D had a pulse doppler radar developed by Sweedish firm Erickson whose development was funded by the sweedish tax payer, but the new AESA radar would rather be built by a british company SALEX galileo namely the Vixen AESA radar. In essence any new radar deveplopment has been foregone by the sweedish government and is at the disposal of the british company according to market requirement we need to make for them, in this case the development cost would be fed throuh increased unit upgrade, which would be unacceptable (see mirage upgrade). The Russian plane is held hostage by the financial books of mikoyan design bureau, the patron country itself not ordering the plane puts critical questions on its viability for mordernisation and upgrades, which may lead to its demise from the competition itself. I don't need to point out the exact nature of Indo-american dealings given the fact that our political understanding is not on level with NATO partners, Indian politicians would find it a hard pressing choice to conform ourselves within american interests to advance the election of an American platform.

The Ministry curtailed in 1982 the indigenous manufacture program from 110 to 76 aircraft on the grounds that the design philosophy of the Jaguar aircraft was of the sixties and the manufacturer of the aircraft had stopped production of the aircraft. However, the Ministry had to reverse its decision and it sanctioned procurement of 15 additional Jaguars from HAL in September 1988 after six years of curtailment of the indigenous manufacture program.

The design philosophy too plays quite a major part in terms of relevance of aircraft to contemperory circumstances, which the Eurocanars themselves evolved as a counter to soviet flanker threat, the design of the platform to address the threat belongs to the 1980s, If not for the post cold war budgets, both the Rafale and Eurofighters would have made their debut even before the Grippen. Essentially we are evaluating an answer spelt out in 1990 to a question of the 1980s, considering these atleast the LCA whose ASQR spelt out in 1985 are mordern. The American Fighters F-16 , F-18 belong to an era as old as the Jaguars themselves and are only shown to be relevent because of American air doctrine realignment for the post cold war scenario. The only american fighter exclusively designed for mordern 21st century warfare is the F-35, on whose selection we have already made a foregone conclusion(read FGFA), atleast for the time being. The mig-35 would very much remain a still born, not that the Russians don't see the american threat any more to field 1000s of point defence fighters to provide local air-superiority, but hard pressed for resouces to keep teir niche in combat aircraft industry the Russians are putting their entire weight behind PAK FA to stay in the race against American JSF, leaving Mig-35 to fend for itself. The Gripen though projected as a cost effective option against the JSF for a threatless europeon sky, is willing to cast its lot against the big boys in the highly electrified atmosphere of Asia. No matter how much improvement on avionics and range, the gripen is unbalanced interms of airframe, stealth etc that characterise the features of next genration of aircraft to be fielded by both Americans,Europeons and Asians over the course of next decade.

The Indian Air Force had some 35 Jaguars equipped with outdated first generation navigation and attack system called NAVWASS for about two decades. Their retromodification with third generation DARIN INGPS was sanctioned belatedly in November 1996 at a cost of Rs.158 crore for completion by 2000-01 was yet to take off and was not expected to be completed before 2006. The contracts for five sub-systems with foreign vendors for this program were at a stand still due to non-finalisation of mission computer by HAL as the imported sub-systems were to be designed around this computer. In the meantime, 14 aircraft had to be grounded for periods ranging from 2 to 26 months due to prolonged unserviceability.

Air HQ in March 1995 unequivocally stated that if a retromod program was not undertaken, it would necessitate phasing out of NAVWASS Jaguars from the Air Force inventory earlier than desired due to their poor operational reliability in the present configuration. Audit scrutiny disclosed that while the Jaguar squadrons were hard pressed for NAVWASS specific items which had depleted considerably, Air HQ had decided not to procure additional NAVWASS kits stating that an upgradation program
was on the anvil. The action of the Air HQ, however, proved abortive as lack of cohesive planning and foresight on its part led to grounding of 14 aircraft at a Jaguar operating base for a period ranging from 2 to 26 months as of June 2000 primarily due to deficiency and prolonged unserviceability of the NAVWASS specific items.

The Ministry concluded contract for procurement of maritime radar for the Jaguar aircraft, in replacement of the existing outdated agave radars, after four years of projection of requirement by Air Force resulting in an extra expenditure of US$ 1.12 million, which was avoidable. The Jaguar maritime fleet had to operate with old agave radars whose maintenance was becoming more and more difficult. Three out of five maritime Jaguars were lying unserviceable since March-June 1999.

Apathy of Air HQ/ Ministry to speed up the acquisition of auto pilot system for Jaguar aircraft was operationally detrimental. The Air Force not only lost four Jaguar aircraft costing Rs.141.40 crore in serious flying accidents, three pilots also died in these accidents. The auto pilots are unlikely to be fitted on Jaguars at least till June 2002.

Integration and flight trials of the laser designator pods procured at a cost of Rs.95 crore has been delayed by 20 months. This would, apart from delaying the fleet modification of Jaguars, also impose operational limitations to the aircraft fleet. In the mean time, warranty of three pods valuing Rs.15.33 crore had expired. The Jaguars would not be able to undertake missions with laser designator pods in the absence of auto pilots, a mandatory requirement was not likely to be available before June 2002.

The CCS approved a proposal of the Air Force in May 1996 for procurement of 15 laser designator pods with thermal imagery for fitment on 10 Jaguars and 5 Mirage-2000 aircraft and modification of 30 Jaguar aircraft for carrying the pods at a total cost of Rs.125 crore. The Ministry concluded a contract with foreign firm 'D' in November 1996 for procurement of 15 laser designator pods with thermal imagery at a total cost of US $ 27.11 million, equivalent to Rs.95 ( 1 US $ = Rs.35) crore to be delivered between March 1998 and February 1999 in two phases. Flight trails and certification of laser designator pods on Jaguar aircraft was delayed by 20 months. However, there had been delay in delivery of pods due to delays in conclusion of flight tests and certification of pods on Jaguar and Mirage-2000 aircraft. The flight test and certification on Jaguar aircraft, which was planned to be conducted by March 1998, was completed by the ASTE (Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment), only in December 1999, after a delay of 20 months.

The plan of the Air Force to equip the Jaguar fleet with self protection jammer, a critical electronic warfare equipment, has been jeopardised even after an expenditure of Rs 184 crore. An initial delay of 24 months in mock-up installation not only forced the Ministry to re-schedule the delivery of jammers from July 1999 to July 2001, a realistic time frame for fleet modification is yet to emerge affecting thereby, the operational capabilities of the Air Force.

With a Jaguar crashing in Ambala in May 2002, the Indian Air Force has lost an average of one of these deep penetration strike aircraft each year in accidents since they were inducted in service in 1979. A total of 20 Jaguars had been lost as of 2002, with the three previous crashes taking place in and around Ambala, which is the base for some of the operational Jaguar squadrons. 1999 was the worst year for the Jaguars when four of these aircraft were lost in Gorakhpur, Pune and Patiala. As of June 2005, a total of 28 Jaguars had been lost in accidents.

The Jaguars were the first type of aircraft that had flown overseas. The Indian Air Force deployed them in an overseas exercise, Cope Thunder in Alaska, USA last year. Speaking on the occasion of the induction, Defence Minister said, "The nation must equip itself for electronic warfare". The Air Chief said that the upgradation of Jaguar was a noteworthy step towards self-reliance. HAL Chairman, Mr Ashok Baweja said Mig-27 and Sea Harrier would be upgraded next. Mr N Dharam Singh, Chief Minister of Karnataka also spoke on the occasion.

In 2004, the Indian Air Force signed a contract with Sextant to completely upgrade the Jaguar autopilot system. Sextant would supply a state-of-the-art modular, digital autopilot for the Jaguars, derived from autopilots already developed for the Mirage 2000-9 and the Nimrod 2000. Autopilot integration would be carried out in jointly with the Indian air force and HAL. The new autopilot would increase the aircraft's ground attack capabilities, as well as enhance flight safety.

Nine upgraded twin-seater Jaguar fighters were inducted into Indian Air Force (IAF) on 15 July 2005 at a ceremony held at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Bangalore. Defence Minister, Mr Pranab Mukherjee handed over the aircraft to Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal SP Tyagi. The aircraft were upgraded by HAL.

The Jaguars of the Indian Air Force have always been a trusted war horse since the first Jaguar came to Ambala on July 27, 1979 and put in 25 years of yeoman service to the Indian Air Force. At the time of induction, Jaguar was considered to be the fastest aircraft and added a new dimension to air operations in the Indian sub-continent. Under an agreement with the Indian Air Force, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has been entrusted with the upgradation of Jaguars that would extend their life by another 15 years, through the year 2020.

In January 2009 Honeywell announced its F125IN engine, a 9850lbf (43.8kN) thrust engine that will deliver high performance, improved pilot safety, lower maintenance and outstanding reliability. "This thrust class engine is built around Honeywell's proven expertise in the design and production of aircraft systems, which is evident in the F125IN engine, an outstanding propulsion system for military aircraft," said Vicki Panhuise, Honeywell Vice President, Military Aircraft. "The engine will transform the Indian Air Force Jaguar aircraft by improving mission performance, enhancing pilot safety, reducing pilot workload, and reducing maintenance events and costs." The F125IN powerplant, which is currently being considered for the Indian Air Force Jaguar re-engining program, is significantly lighter and much more powerful than the aircraft's current engine. It has an advanced dual full-authority digital engine control (FADEC) system, modular construction, integrated engine health monitoring system and best in class thrust-to-weight ratio. In 2007 the F125IN was successfully demonstrated for the Indian Air Force in Bangalore. The engine is projected to save the Indian Air Force more than Rupees 7000 Crores ($1.5 billion) in life-cycle costs compared to other upgrade options being considered. The F125IN permits the Jaguar to perform missions never before possible with the current engine.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/shamsher.htm

Considering history as a subject to be learnt from, the disaster of procurement the Jaguar was for the Ministry of Defence, and Indian air Force needs to be acknowledged.

The IAF may be awerse to risk taking, but to field platforms that are most suited for our services for a required period of time with upgrades throughout its life, it is imperative to be involved and integrated in the development right form the technology demonstrator stage to keep it relevent to the force's exacting requirements.

In the MMRCA context, we need to understand the context for introduction of the program was quick procurement, which has obviously been seriously compromised beyond repair and induction of these platforms starting 2015 will be fraught with serious difficuilties that would need to be fought off to avoid creeping obsolesence. Unfortunately every procurement can only be subjected to scruting by the premier auditing body CAG after every transaction is complete. It is time we looked at this procurement as a broader picture regarding the security situation surrounding Inida and not as an ad hoc purchase to pluss up squadrons which could be better served by leasing Rafales totalling 90 of 18 squadron each for 10 years to be replaced consequtively by Tejas mk-2 and FGFA respectively. After all the French are willing to fast track 40 Rafales, they would be amiable to a double the number leasing too considering that of the 294 projected program not even 100 have been inducted as of yet. In such arrangement the only loser would be Hindustan Aeronautics Limites(HAL) whose whims of establishing a new production facility with extensive technology from western industries have to be foregone. Since the Enterprise was created only in the sense of national interests, it wouldn't be unfair to ask them to be subservient to the greater interests of the Indian state.

From the above information and analysis, we may infer that Indian security interests would be best served by placing our weight behind FGFA programme with 100 more orders commitment and further more if AMCA falls behind, than to go aircraft of the previous century that by all standards are obsolete compared to our own programmes in the pipeline. Depending on 126 odd balls in a battlefield of 2030 filled with EW happening in an invisible spectrum is akin to sending pawns to the fight with arms tied behind their backs, which we would be wise not to do. We are schedulled to keep Jaguars till 2025, when the British have chosen Tornados over them and Oman had decided to scrap them. In future, we should not find ourselves holding the buck for these 126 combat planes, when their OEM's country had shifted to an entirely new platform. Its not uncommon for any country to leap a particular development to grasp the oppurtunity afforded by a better one in our case FGFA vs MMRCA.

Hope someone in the decision making apparatus is thinking broadly along such lines to steer Indian defence acquisitions form such pitfalls we regularly face but seldom try not to fall in.

 

[chex3009]

EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON SUCCESSFULLY DELIVERS 250TH AIRCRAFT

The Eurofighter Typhoon programme, which has delivered 50 aircraft over the past year, celebrates another milestone today as the 250th aircraft is delivered to the customer. IS038 was handed over to the Italian Air Force in a small ceremony at Pratica di Mare base. The 250th aircraft will join 311 squadron as part of their current duties.

Eurofighter is the largest industrial programme in Europe and the partnership between the four Partner Nations of Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK, has led to a successful, independent aerospace industry.

Eurofighter CEO Enzo Casolini said of this achievement 'This is one more important milestone for the Eurofighter Typhoon programme. The delivery of 250 aircraft ensures that the Typhoon has more aircraft in service than any other new generation multi-role fighter, showing just how effective the Eurofighter programme really is'.

Today, Eurofighter Typhoon is the world's most advanced multi-role combat aircraft and has been regularly delivering to the four core customer nations since the first aircraft was received in 2003. In addition to the core nations, the programme's first export customer Austria received their 15th and final jet in September 2009 and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia have been taking steady delivery of Typhoon jets since June 2009.

http://www.asianmilitaryreview.com/News/index.php?hNewsId=1561

 

[Rahul Singh]

That's what even i think, there's no point in limiting MMRCA to 126, it might be the initial order but its surely gonna rise.

That largely depends of four factors.
1. How well production M-MRCA progresses? HAWK story is not very old.
2. What will be the specification of LCA MK-II payload and range wise.
3. Status of PAK-FA.
4. Status of AMCA.

 

[Scientist]

UK closes in on $11bn fighter deal

UK closes in on $11bn fighter deal
The European-made Typhoon fighter is winning the fight for the $11.5bn (£7.1bn) contract to supply 126 fighters to the Indian Air Force in a deal worth $5 billion and 2,000 new jobs to Britain.
The multi-role combat aircraft, manufactured by a joint venture between Britain's BAE Systems, Italy's Alenia Aeronautica and the German-Spanish giant EADS, has come top in the Indian Air Force's technical assessment of rival bids, beating the American F16 and F18s, the Russian MiG 35 and its closest rival, the French Dassault Rafale.

If the Typhoon clinches the deal, India would become the consortium's third-largest customer and an unofficial "fifth partner" in the project. Thousands of new jobs would also be created in India, including a new EADS avionics plant. "The Indians would be one of the biggest users of Typhoon, which would give them a vote at the table," one official said last week.

Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain are waging a joint diplomatic campaign to support the Typhoon bid, with the leaders of all four countries expected to raise the issue in meetings with India's prime minister, Dr Manmohan Singh, at next week's G20 meeting in Seoul. David Cameron is expected to lobby Dr Singh in a bilateral meeting at the summit.

President Barack Obama of the United States is in India this weekend and is expected to lobby on behalf of the US defence industry for the F16 and F18.

A senior Indian official has told The Sunday Telegraph that its air force's technical findings have been forwarded to the defence ministry, where a final decision is expected to be made in the next few months.
"There are a number of cost and strategic considerations which still have to be looked at, but in purely technical terms, Eurofighter is ahead," the official said.

The disclosure is a significant boost for the Typhoon consortium, but it must now address Indian concerns that the Eurofighter is more expensive than its competitors in upfront costs. British, German, Spanish and Italian officials are confident however that it will be cheaper than its competitors over the lifetime of its deployment.

Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Dalton, head of the Royal Air Force, visited India last week for the Indradhanush joint RAF-Indian Air Force exercise in Kalaikunda, West Bengal, where Indian fighter pilots flew RAF Typhoons for the first time under the gaze of their own Air Chief Marshal PV Naik.

"Set aside initial development costs and Typhoon's through-life costs compare very well," said Sir Stephen.

The Typhoon's unique advantage, he said, is an integrated platform for its weapons, radar and intelligence- gathering systems. "It has this flexibility and adaptability at any one time," he said. Sir Stephen previously headed Britain's Typhoon development programme at the Ministry of Defence.

Indian officials have long said that Eurofighter had a good chance of winning the contract. Arif Shahid Khan, India's ambassador to Italy, said in January that the Eurofighter was "leading the race" in the trials, which were then under way.

Winning the contract would be a jobs boost not just for BAE Systems' Warton plant in Lancashire but also the Rolls-Royce factory in Bristol, where its EuroJet 200 engines are built. It would also benefit 300 small and medium enterprises throughout Britain.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...114951/UK-closes-in-on-11bn-fighter-deal.html

 

[neo29]

Indian MMRCA offsets differences near solution

A solution to the vexed issue of third party suppliers within the offset obligations of bidders of India's estimated $10 billion MMRCA fighter contract appears to be near with the bidders and the MoD reportedly agreeing to the draft of a contract between the prime integrators (the six bidders-Lockheed Martin, Boeing, MiG, Saab, Eurofighter and Dassault), their major sub-contractors and the MoD.

Earlier, the MoD and the prime integrators had serious differences over what industry sources called as " third party contracts". The MoD was insisting that the prime integrators sign MoUs on behalf of the sub-contractors while the latter expressing inability to do so on ground that they could not stand guarantee for their sub-contractors' commitments. "A draft of the MoU is expected to be received from the MoD soon after which the vendors will have to sign these with each of the sub-system providers who have been mentioned under the 50% offsets obligations for the MMRCA contract", an industry source told Defenseworld.net. There is broad agreement between a majority of the bidders and the MoD over the new MoU, the source said.

A fresh deadline of January 28, 2011 has been set to receive the signed MoUs, after which the MoD will examine afresh the offset proposals and proceed with the rest of the evaluation in selecting an ultimate winner.

Earlier, the six bidders had been informed that their offsets proposals needed to be redrawn as the MoD would only accept the prime contractors' commitments for any offset work to be done which will have to be direct offsets and involve transfer of technology to India. It is not yet clear what the terms of the new MoU will be like, the sources said stating that however, recent interactions between the MoD's MMRCA cell and the bidders seems to indicate forward movement.

There are altogether some 500-600 offset proposals as part of the MMRCA bids involving all the prime integrators. "Explaining the MoU to each of the sub-system providers in the context of every one of the offset proposals will be a time consuming exercise involving complex legal and technical issues and the approximate one month time looks too short to accomplish this work", the industry sources said.

Industry experts as well as defence officials have voiced concern over the offsets policy. At a seminar on the fifth international conference on energising Indian aerospace industry organised by the Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) and Vayu Aerospace, the outgoing Vice Chief of the Indian Air Force, P.K. Barbora said a "well-defined offset policy is the need of the day". Barbora has been quoted as saying on December 16, "our offset policy is very nascent. It is complicated and foreign vendors find it difficult to understand". Barbora is reported to have made it clear that the comments were his personal views.

The Indian MoD is scheduled to announce a new edition of its defence procurement policy early next year which is expected to address some of the concerns of international vendors.

http://idrw.org/?p=2025

 

[warriorextreme]

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...hter-deal.html

i was just reading some comments by british ppl over there..one thing i noticed that they think UK gives "LARGE DONATION" or "FOREIGN AID" to India..
what is this bullcrap??
this Country completely drowning in debt think they give aid to us??
i must say British are not as clever as they used to be 100 years ago...

 

[Pandora]

Eurofighter Typhoon rocketing
into the late afternoon sun.

 

[black eagle]

MMRCA : BVR Silver Bullets for IAF

SOURCE : Vinayak shetti security Editorial Panel For Security Magazine

Lot of discussions have taken place on aircrafts in the race for providing 126 fighter jets to Indian air force for MMRCA tender , but very little has been discussed about the weapons which will come with this , particularly Beyond visual range (BVR) Air to Air missiles (AAM) which is essential weapon in any fighter aircraft now .

Indian air force chief has recently disclosed that whichever aircraft will be selected of the MMRCA tender, Aircrafts will be deployed near Chinese border which will replace old Mig-21s currently guarding north eastern borders of our country, and this is a considerable shift in IAF strategy and planning.

earlier in late 80's saw arrival of brand new Mirage-2000h and Mig-29A which were mostly deployed in western sector towards Pakistani border , but recent decision to base IAF frontline Sukhoi Su-30MKI and also upgrade many North eastern airbase and runways to keep heaver fighters is the indication that best will be kept to face Chinese air force in case of border conflicts and Pakistani border will be guarded by Upgraded Mirage-2000h and Mig-29SMT along with indigenously developed LCA-Tejas which will be based in western sector from 2012 onwards .

Coming back to BVRAAM's which will come with the aircrafts if selected by IAF

MBDA Meteor: Termed has one of the best BVRAAM is a Next generation BVRAAM developed by MBDA. Meteor is a light weight BVRAAM which incorporates stealthy profile and lesser drag with advance sensors, Meteor has data link capability and can be guided by another aircraft like AWACS or by another fighter aircraft. Gripen and Eurofighter are the aircrafts which will be have them has a standard BVRAAM package but they are Plans by IAF to acquire them in any case to improve Sukhoi-30 MKI BVR fighting capability and integrations will be done with assistance from MBDA , when MKI's Mid-life up gradation program which will start in another two years from now .

Raytheon AIM-120 AMRAAM : American mostly likely table Family of AIM-120 AMRAAM which will be offered with F-18 SH and F-16IN , latest in the family are AIM-120D and AIM-120C7 , Saab Gripen also can carry this missile which gives Swedish an edge in MMRCA tender since both Meteor and AIM-120 can be offered has the standard BVRAAM for their jet .AIM-120 Family of AMRAAM will serve USAF and other countries till 2020 still a replacement which is under development become active and hits production .

Raytheon AIM-9X Sidewinder: One more offering will come from Americans will be Sidewinder, it does not fall in category of BVRAAM but still is a potential AAM in close range dogfight, both of the American Missiles are standard missiles in almost all of fighter jets operated by USAF and USN which includes F-15, F-16, F-22, F-35 and even F-18SH, both AAM's are battle proven and has very high rate of success in dog fights.

MBDA MICA: another BVRAAM coming from MBDA is MICA which is a standard BVRAAM for Rafale jets and can also be integrated with Eurofighter, IAF is already procuring them for their Mirage-2000H which will be upgraded soon with new avionics package and radar and will also get MICA BVRAAM. MICA has been rumored to be already operational with 10 IAF Mirage 2000's which were purchased from the excess French Air force stock.

PYTHON-5 and DERBY: Israelis are keen to offer there PYTHON-5 which actually is not a BVRAAM but is still an advance AAM missile and currently operational with Israeli F-15 and F-16s, while DERBY is a standard BVRAAM with Indian Navy's Sea Harrier fleet, while IAF has not yet integrated any of this missiles with their fleet of fighter jets, but recently Indian navy have told they could like to have DERBY in Naval –Tejas too

http://idrw.org/?p=2051

 

[chex3009]

The F-16 Conformal Refuelling Probe For MMRCA

Found these photos in the new edition of Lockheed-Martin's Code One magazine of the F-16 Conformal Air Refuelling Tank System (CARTS), a Skunk Works led effort that began on a UAE Air Force Block 60 in 2007, specifically to meet an Indian MMRCA requirement.

The report quotes CARTS engineer Don Thompson as saying, "We needed a test aircraft version of the Block 60 aircraft. The test Block 60 aircraft in the US was tied up with avionics modification and integration to support MMRCA field trials, and we needed a dedicated aircraft for the CARTS portion of the field trials demonstration. We modified the aircraft in the UAE because it was easier and quicker than bringing another Block 60 F-16 into the US to modify and then send it right back to the UAE on the way to India for the field trials."

The report notes that "During the flight testing and MMRCA demonstrations, the CARTS-equipped F-16 successfully received fuel from both a modified DC-10 and an Indian Air Force Ilyushin Il-78 tanker aircraft and made approximately forty aerial refueling contacts. The speed envelope, as tested, is in the range of 250 to 300 knots. The pilot flies the probe into the refueling basket of the drogue from just below at a closing speed of no more than ten knots."

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/12/photos-f-16-conformal-probe-for-mmrca.html

 

[black eagle]

MMRCA files found on the road...

It is a shocking security breach of the Indian Air Force (IAF) that has come to light with a top secret file being lost and then found by a roadside in Delhi.

What is more shocking is that the file pertains to the biggest defence deal of India - of the 126 fighter planes that the IAF is buying, amounting to a whopping 42000 crore rupees. The file had details of the offset clause, essentially what the winning bidder is expected to invest in India. The company with the information would have an unfair advantage over other bidders.

The file was located by a private security guard who alerted the IAF. Questions are raised on the reason why file was taken out. Air Force has ordered a probe into the incident.

http://www.timesnow.tv/Top-secret-file-lost--found/articleshow/4361697.cms

 

[chex3009]

Secret IAF file goes missing, found on Delhi street

A secret file related to over a $11 billion deal for procuring 126 multirole combat aircraft went missing from the defence ministry and has been found on the roadside in Delhi, prompting the Indian Air Force (IAF) to order a probe into the incident.

The secret files are related to the Offsets clause in the deal and were found on the roadside in a Delhi locality recently, IAF officials said, adding that the file has been recovered.

"The IAF has ordered a court of inquiry (CoI) into the loss of the secret file which went missing from the defence ministry. The ministry will order a separate probe into the incident as the file had gone missing from there," Air Vice Marshal M Matheswaran, Assistant Chief of Air Staff (Operations) told PTI here.

The incident comes at a time when the multi-billion dollar deal has entered the critical stage after the IAF carried out extensive flight evaluation trials of the six participating aircraft.

The IAF had submitted its report to the defence ministry, which has to take a final call on the deal.

He said the IAF had ordered the probe under a senior official to find out how the file had gone missing from the ministry as it belonged to the air force.

"The secret file has been recovered and it is in our custody," he added.

However, it was not clear as to how and who recovered the file.

Under the Offsets clause in the defence production procedure, a foreign vendor bagging any deal worth over Rs300 crore has to invest back at least 30% of the contract's worth back in Indian defence sector.

Under the M-MRCA deal, the offsets were pegged at 50% of the worth of the deal.

American F-16 and F/A-18, French Rafale, Swedish Gripen, Russian MiG 35 and European Eurofighter are the six contenders participating the deal for supplying the aircraft to the IAF.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_secret-iaf-file-goes-missing-found-on-delhi-street_1488705

 

[Tshering22]

MMRCA files found on the road...

It is a shocking security breach of the Indian Air Force (IAF) that has come to light with a top secret file being lost and then found by a roadside in Delhi.

What is more shocking is that the file pertains to the biggest defence deal of India - of the 126 fighter planes that the IAF is buying, amounting to a whopping 42000 crore rupees. The file had details of the offset clause, essentially what the winning bidder is expected to invest in India. The company with the information would have an unfair advantage over other bidders.

The file was located by a private security guard who alerted the IAF. Questions are raised on the reason why file was taken out. Air Force has ordered a probe into the incident.

http://www.timesnow.tv/Top-secret-file-lost--found/articleshow/4361697.cms

WTF? New year has barely come and already bad news started flowing in. Guess that IAF strategy of "SHOCK AND AWE" is not just limited for enemies alone. :emot15:

 

[neo29]

Quicker Induction of jets is Key in MMRCA Tender: IAF Official

A high ranked serving officer in Indian air force have told (idrw.org), IAF is looking at quicker induction of the jets into air force, and without any further delays once the winner of the MMRCA Tender competition is out by Mid of next year .

IAF has made a detail study of all the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) Production capability of this jets and also how fast they can get their government approval for Transfer of Core Technology to India, and also ground tools and other spare supplies of the jet to HAL, so that local production of the 108 jets can start in India, first 18 aircraft will be directly sourced from the manufacturer.

Officer also admitted that aircrafts like Gripen NG, MiG-35 and F-16IN which are in the race are more of Built for India jets and Manufactures might face some minor or serious issues with this jets, since most of this jet are still in prototype stage and Avionics and other changes to the aircraft might suffer delays, which might delay whole Production line of the jets or HAL might have issues in doing local production of this jets which might result in to slow induction in IAF fleet.

IAF is already retiring more jets then inducting them and Mig-23 fleet has been already been retired and MMRCA aircraft will fill the gap of this jets, IAF will also be retiring Half of Mig-27 fleet by 2015, so this is a major concern for IAF, since this will also be the period where jets like Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 will be going through major Mid-life up gradation and pulling of this jets for up gradation will leave further void in IAF's operational capability.

Key will be faster induction of MMRCA jets, and also take care that Sukhoi Su 30 MKI and Tejas MK-1 induction have smooth induction into IAF.

http://idrw.org/?p=2091

 

[duhastmish]

euro fighter can provide them off the shelf from Germany, and decreasing numbers means - we can induct them quicker.

 

[chex3009]

MMRCA Buzz

The latest Buzz on MMRCA is that a Top secret file related to the offset clause has gone missing but later on was found on a road in Delhi. Both IAF and MoD has ordered an inquiry on it. Its unlikely to make any difference as the bidders are not allowed to make any further changes to their bid. Never the less it does affects India image and hurts it credibility of running a fair tender competition.

Secondly, it seems like the IAF is opting for a "Completed" platforms for the MMRCA. According to IAF, it would prefer platforms who's development process is competed rather than aircrafts like MiG-35, Gripen NG and F-16IN which are being tweaked to meet IAF's demands. Under-development fighters are expected to face teething issues which could delay their induction which IAF can't afford. So it seems that the cut-off list is up(unofficial) with EF-2000 Typhoon, Dassault Rafale and Boeing F/A-18SH making it in.

http://angle-of-attack.blogspot.com/2010/12/mmrca-buzz.html

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Typhoons