MRCA news and dicussions Part III

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EagleOne

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why dont they divide it into 3 parts-some to americans .russians ,french.....all will be happy...won't they....??!!
who cares if India is....??
politics will be there in every developing countries defence tenders....anyways IAF only want a single vendor ...coolbuddy
 

Neil

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politics will be there in every developing countries defence tenders....anyways IAF only want a single vendor ...coolbuddy
lol...eagleone :emot15: i am kool....!!

its frustrating that politics is kept above defence...u know....!!
 

luckyy

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This just killed it for me.

All in all, I'm disappointed. I hope to the good Lord I'm jumping the gun. And that by 'political', they don't necessarily mean American (I'm starting to think French might fit as well).
yes , it don't mean Amarican.........it is the Eurofighter ....

russian has deep roots in IAF so probable they know it first .....
 

Rage

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may be but we should also remember we have already maany deals with america like p-8i,c-130s etc and another $5 billion will be signed in november and officals of GOI at all levels are not happy with the pacts of agreements:article about the news
so we can expect some thing other then US and russian aircrafts
(we should remember defence minstry rejected US offer of buying f-18 or f-16 directly though FMS at the time of issuing RTP)
Believe me when I tell you I am one of the least willing to see an American fighter in our ranks- especially from the fighters in contention.

Which is why the messages about this being a 'political decision' bother me.

Unless what they have in mind is a technology denial regime, on the lines of something similar to technology denial for JF-17 avionics inter alia on account of the Mirage-upgrade deal. In which case, that may also be "political".

Too bad there's no German player in this deal. I'd love to have seen that magic worked on the U-214's.
 
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vikramrana_1812

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lol...eagleone :emot15: i am kool....!!

its frustrating that politics is kept above defence...u know....!!

It is not that politics is kept above defence......the alltime situation is that all defence deals goes through the political agenda. It is not in our case..but actually it is the reality for each and every country in the world...That is the reason Egypt has chosen F-16 whereas all the other countries dont want F-16's now...

MMRCA deal is also similar....It will be a political decision in the end..If india wants good relation ship with US then F-18 SH is the choice, similarly if India wants good PR with Russia then Mig, esle the rest...
Please remeber that all the planes in the MMRCA race fit our needs as far as the capability is concerned....What our Airforce wants is there in each and every plane...Even AESA...Some are developing and some are providing..In the end each and every plane will have AESA also.......
indian Fighter pilot sitting in F-18Sh is equally lethal as Indian pilot sitting in Rafale or Mig-35.....Therefore my friend what our government wants is the final decision.
 

Neil

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It is not that politics is kept above defence......the alltime situation is that all defence deals goes through the political agenda. It is not in our case..but actually it is the reality for each and every country in the world...That is the reason Egypt has chosen F-16 whereas all the other countries dont want F-16's now...

MMRCA deal is also similar....It will be a political decision in the end..If india wants good relation ship with US then F-18 SH is the choice, similarly if India wants good PR with Russia then Mig, esle the rest...
Please remeber that all the planes in the MMRCA race fit our needs as far as the capability is concerned....What our Airforce wants is there in each and every plane...Even AESA...Some are developing and some are providing..In the end each and every plane will have AESA also.......
indian Fighter pilot sitting in F-18Sh is equally lethal as Indian pilot sitting in Rafale or Mig-35.....Therefore my friend what our government wants is the final decision.
bro the evaluating process is not just about tech its also about how much will it cost for upgrade, infrastructure , training cost etc.....and hence its important to select the right product....

u are right that every country has political agenda and even diplomatic agenda on mind when they go for a defence deal but in our case all the contender our dear friend to us....that means if we try to make one happy the ties with other will degrade/suffer....
and
we cant make all of them happy can we...??!!
 
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Crusader53

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It is not that politics is kept above defence......the alltime situation is that all defence deals goes through the political agenda. It is not in our case..but actually it is the reality for each and every country in the world...That is the reason Egypt has chosen F-16 whereas all the other countries dont want F-16's now...

MMRCA deal is also similar....It will be a political decision in the end..If india wants good relation ship with US then F-18 SH is the choice, similarly if India wants good PR with Russia then Mig, esle the rest...
Please remeber that all the planes in the MMRCA race fit our needs as far as the capability is concerned....What our Airforce wants is there in each and every plane...Even AESA...Some are developing and some are providing..In the end each and every plane will have AESA also.......
indian Fighter pilot sitting in F-18Sh is equally lethal as Indian pilot sitting in Rafale or Mig-35.....Therefore my friend what our government wants is the final decision.
The Boeing just put the frosting on the Cake..............

Super Hornet mods added to export list
By: Chris Pocock

July 21, 2010
Military Aircraft


Boeing announced here yesterday a set of potential enhancements to the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet that it will market to export prospects. They include an enclosed weapons pod that is intended to lower the aircraft's radar cross section. The countries currently evaluating or expressing interest in the Super Hornet include Brazil, Denmark, India, Japan, Kuwait, Malaysia, and Qatar.

There are six elements to what Boeing calls the "Super Hornet International Road Map." The first is already under development and was seen by AIN during a visit to St. Louis last month. This is the Next Generation cockpit, which brings to the F-18 the large (11- by 19-inch) one-piece, touchscreen display, seen previously only on the Lockheed Martin F-35. Such a display helps improve the fused presentation of the integrated sensor suite that is already a big Super Hornet feature. The new cockpit could be made available for deliveries in 2013, according to Shelley Lavender, Boeing's vice-president Global Strike Systems.

The other enhancements would be available from 2015, she said. These include the enclosed weapons pod, which would be carried on the centerline station, and may possibly be partially faired into the fuselage. It is sized for four AIM-120 AMRAAMs, but can also take air-to-ground weapons. According to Mike Gibbons, the Boeing F/A-18 program manager, an element of stealth was already designed into the Super Hornet. "We inserted some offerings from our Joint Strike Fighter proposal, in terms of shaping and materials," he said in St Louis last month. Stealth on the aircraft is complemented by the active electronic warfare system, he added.

Conformal fuel tanks can straddle the upper fuselage, and confer an additional 10 percent range, according to Lavender. An enhanced performance engine (EPE) version of the GE F414 would provide a 20-percent increase in thrust. India has requested this extra power. The final two enhancements on offer are an internal IRST (infrared search and track) system, carried in the nose, and a spherical missile and laser warning system, housed above and (presumably also) below the airplane.

With a "hot" production line likely to be secured until at least 2015, thanks to the 124 aircraft for the U.S. Navy that are now being negotiated as a third multi-year buy, Boeing is confident of securing future exports of the Super Hornet. To date, only Australia has bought, and deliveries are underway. The price of the aircraft currently being delivered to the U.S. Navy is roughly $54 million, which indicates that the international Super Hornet is "a lower cost platform," according to Gibbons.
 

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nrj

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This just killed it for me.

It seems like the fighter will be 'American'. For already, feelers are being thrown out for a possible consolation for Russia for "50-60 Mig-35s".

If it comes down to that, I'd rather see the F-16 C/D. From what I'm hearing, the Hornet has had terrible maintenance problems, with switching valves and hydraulic system migration issues and the extra weight and agility not exactly paying off at higher speeds. The only edge the F/A-18 might have is in terms of range, and we have deep strike aircraft already.

All in all, I'm disappointed. I hope to the good Lord I'm jumping the gun. And that by 'political', they don't necessarily mean American (I'm starting to think French might fit as well).
Thats the real case. MIG35 deal can be worked out anytime for few dedicated squadrons. I also have feeling that SU35 might also see IAF colors in coming years.

@F18 SH

Hydraulic system & Switching valves problems are new to me. I am worried about the airframe problems it has & since IAF intends to operate them for atleast 20years, I am worried what maintenance costs it might add.

However, F18 will be preferred if MOD wants immediate induction. I am sure F18 deliveries will be fastest to our record. Plus not to forget that F18 has ready AESA & it found one of the largest orders from US forces making it a very proven platform. The bad thing is, we will never know what US puts in EUMA :angry_10:

I have started to have feeling that RAFALE is the strongest player as of now considering all the favorable aspects. But let see what political decision our South block policy makers take.
 

luckyy

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The price of the aircraft currently being delivered to the U.S. Navy is roughly $54 million, which indicates that the international Super Hornet is "a lower cost platform," according to Gibbons.
Australia paying 4.6bn usd for 24 F-18 .......Australia already operates 71 older and less capable F/A-18s so logestic and infrastructure expenses won't be there much....still 4.6bn for 24 F-18....190ml$ ....anywhere close to $54ml....?
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSYD23056620070306

The deal, which also covers training, includes the aircraft, 48 installed engines and 6 spare engines, as well as 24 radar systems and 30 protection systems, known as electronic warfare countermeasures receiving sets.
so $54 ml is only for airframe ..... engine , spares , radars , EWS will have to buy seperatly....
 
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nrj

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US should cut its double-standards if they do not want India to be reluctant on defense deals.

On the other side GOI should have clear vision. GOI should decide if they want to sign CISMOA/LSA or not. If they do not want to sign these agreements then they should stop wasting money on US toys because quite frankly P8I is a very superb platform but how good is it if it lacks the critical electronics? Same goes the case with C17. If we are not signing CISMOA/LSA etc, then C17 will miss the DIRCM; which in my opinion is a powerful muscle in our doctrine.

I do not understand why GOI & US administration are wasting time when both can gain a lot with each others co-operation :angry_10:
 

sandeepdg

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I love the F-18 Super Hornet, but these maintainence issues are a cause for concern. Personally I favour the EF2000 or the MMRCA deal, since the Rafale is more expensive than the Eurofighter and it doesn't have an AESA radar as of now, though it wil get one soon and also from what I have heard, the Typhoon can super-cruise at Mach 1.5 which is not possible with the Rafale and it has longer range, not sure about this though. Plus it doesn't come with a laser designator unlike the Typhoon.
 
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Crusader53

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I love the F-18 Super Hornet, but these maintainence issues are a cause for concern. Personally I favour the EF2000 or the MMRCA deal, since the Rafale is more expensive than the Eurofighter and it doesn't have an AESA radar as of now, though it wil get one soon and also from what I have heard, the Typhoon can super-cruise at Mach 1.5 which is not possible with the Rafale and it has longer range, not sure about this though. Plus it doesn't come with a laser designator unlike the Typhoon.

What maintenance issues???
 

nitesh

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Welcome

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I love the F-18 Super Hornet, but these maintainence issues are a cause for concern. Personally I favour the EF2000 or the MMRCA deal, since the Rafale is more expensive than the Eurofighter and it doesn't have an AESA radar as of now, though it wil get one soon and also from what I have heard, the Typhoon can super-cruise at Mach 1.5 which is not possible with the Rafale and it has longer range, not sure about this though. Plus it doesn't come with a laser designator unlike the Typhoon.
no doubt eurofighter is best fighter in the world...i think it just similar to the f-35. india should give preference to buy it. and also eurofighter is leading the mrca. india can reject it only due to it's huge cost factor.... but it's cost is not a big factor bcoz quality is bigger than quantity...
 

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IAF evaluation report on multi-role aircraft soon: Media

Sujit Chatterjee Farnborough, Jul 21 (PTI) The IAF is set to come out "within the next few days" with the results of the flight tests of six warplanes competing for a multi-billion dollar deal for 126 multi-role combat aircraft, a media report said today. The evaluation report is for the purchase of 126 fighter jet planes with the option for 63 more, and possibly additional follow-on orders.

The entire deal is estimated to be worth more than 10 billion US dollars. The IAF is set to come out with the report "within the next few days," aviation journal Shownews said quoting a Russian news report.

The six firms bidding for the contract are Saab (Gripen E/F), Dassault (Refale), Boeing (F/A-18 E/F), Lockheed Martin (F-16 E/F), EADS (Eurofighter) and RSK-MiG (MiG-35). The Defence Ministry is likely to shortlist three or four of the six aircraft by December this year or January next.

"The final decision on the specific aircraft to be purchased will be political in nature and may only be taken at the end of 2012," the report said. It also claimed that if the Russian MiG is kept out of the final phase, "there might be a decision to buy 50-60 of them outside the tender process.

" India is going in for the MRCA to replace its ageing MiG fleet of Russian origin. At present, the number of IAF squadrons are down to below 35 and the Air Force has been pressing the government for a quicker decision on inducting the warplanes.

final decision will taken at the end of 2012..i think they r taking lot of time. it's mean final production will start at least after 2014....i think airforce should reconsider on their strategy..
 
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http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Italy_reduces_Eurofighter_order_999.html

Italy reduces Eurofighter order

Italy shocked Europe's military industry when it announced a major cut in the number of Eurofighter Typhoon jets it will order.
Italian Defense Minister Ignazio La Russa told reporters Tuesday at Farnborough Air Show in southern England that Rome would cut its planned purchase by 25 planes due to budget pressures.

He said the Italian air force, forced to spend less in a bid to rein in the national finances, would try to save $2.6 billion by buying 96, and not 121, models of the European multirole aircraft.

The news surprised observers as Italy's Finmeccanica is part of the consortium building the Eurofighter. The decision underlines how much pressure is on European defense ministers to cut their budgets but it isn't a good one for plans to export the plane to India, which is attracting offers from all over the world for a $12 billion contract for 126 fighter planes.

The Eurofighter Typhoon is a twin-engine canard-delta wing multirole aircraft, designed and built by a consortium formed in 1986 that apart from Finmeccanica includes German-Spanish European Aeronautic Defense and Space Co. and Britain's BAE Systems. The maiden flight of the Eurofighter prototype took place in March 1994.

Germany, Britain, Italy and Spain in the 1990s committed to buy a total of 620 Eurofighter jets but split the order into three approval tranches. The third tranche of 236 planes was split in two in 2008 when it became clear that countries have trouble paying for all planes at once.

After significant delay, the consortium nations last August signed a $13 billion order contract for a total of 112 Eurofighter jets, providing the program with a much-needed financial infusion.

Britain at the time threatened to bail out of the Eurofighter program but was ultimately convinced by the European partners to stay on board.

While critics argue the plane has been designed for Cold War-like conflicts and is obsolete, major countries in Asia and the Middle East are still stocking up on fighter jets: Saudi Arabia bought 72 Eurofighter jets from Britain and EADS, the driving force behind the program, is hoping that India will choose the Eurofighter for its planned $12 billion acquisition of 126 combat jets.

Eurofighter said at Farnborough it is developing a new radar system to be placed into the latest Eurofighter versions by 2015. Observers say the new radar, developed by multinational consortium Euroradar, is aimed at making the plane more attractive to India.

Other planes placed in the bidding race for the Indian contract are Boeing's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin's F-16 Fighting Falcon, the French-made Dassault Rafale, SAAB Gripen from Sweden and the Russian-produced Mikoyan MiG-35.
 

Armand2REP

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Looks like Tranche 3B is never going to be built. UK and Germany are getting ready to cancel theirs.
 

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