MRCA news and dicussions Part III

Status
Not open for further replies.

EagleOne

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
886
Likes
87
Eurofighter gets good vibes on MMRCA

The first spurts of information on the results of the trials conducted by the Indian Air Force (IAF) for its 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender are starting to trickle out.

A confident Bernhard Gerwart, Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Military Air Systems at EADS Defence & Security, mingled with reporters in an informal chat with reporters in New Delhi on Tuesday and told them, "I believe we are compliant with all the requests that they have made. Yesterday, I had some meetings with representatives of the IAF and the MoD (Ministry of Defense) and, personally, I left with the impression that we had done well in the flight trials."

But Herr Gerwert did offer a caveat, saying, "Mind you it's just a feeling," while pointing out the IAF had made no official statement to him.

At any rate he confirmed separately to StratPost, he would be sleeping easier after getting these vibes. While this is hardly definitive confirmation of the Eurofighter Typhoon having performed well in the trials from the perspective of the IAF, it is perhaps indicative of the feedback given by the IAF to representatives of the company.

And while Gerwert didn't know if the IAF would come up with a short list or a 'long list', the issue of a down select remains open to question. It remains unclear whether any possible shortlist issued by the IAF would merely be an indication of preference or would actually result in the elimination of any of the contestants.

German Ambassador to India, Thomas Matussek, too, weighed in. "We have to see this in the geo-strategic context. Your security is our security," he said. Did he think that if the MMRCA comes down to being a political decision, the four-European nations backing EADS would have the political capital to compete with the US? "The simple answer is 'yes'. We're easily on the same par as the United States," he said.

The IAF is expected to submit its report on its evaluation of the six aircraft imminently, and industry watchers have been actively trying to get a sense of how it will play out. With the IAF enforcing a robust lockdown on any seepage of information so long as the report remains in their domain, defense journalists have been reduced to speculation on the play-out of the tender process.

Not surprisingly, reporters are straining their eyes trying to read between the lines of the statements issued by personalities such as Herr Gerwert and cryptic comments of IAF officers in private conversation, in the absence of any official indications.

There are some who argue that it would be in the interest of the IAF to indicate the results of the trials and its preferences, to make sure their views are not deviated from when the matter is laid before the Ministry of Defense. There are others who think this would be irrelevant, anticipating the IAF to indicate no clear preference one way or the other. Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin's F-16, Saab's Gripen IN, Dassault's Rafale and the MiG-35 are the other aircraft competing in the tender.

But IAF officials admit to being eminently aware of the possibility of the conclusions of the report becoming public, once it is submitted to the ministry. And all concerned agree, some interesting times lie ahead, when that happens.
http://idrw.org/?p=2531
http://www.stratpost.com/blog-eurofighter-gets-good-vibes-on-mmrca
 

shuvo@y2k10

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
2,653
Likes
6,710
Country flag
there is no point in go in for f-35.the first lot of f-35 we can get is not before 2020 as the aircraft is facing a huge engine problem and LM have huge no. of orders of other country to fill up too.considering the pak-fa will be 50% cheaper and 50% better than f-35,whose capabilities are better than even pak-fa(claimed by sukhoi and validated by most experts seeing the first prototype).also the US is never going to give us the TOT of f-35and judging by our experience the can give that to pakistan to fight the talibani air force as part of the cilivian aid.so we have to retain our combat edge.
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,017
EF will take the cup home. Major geopolitical advantage if we take the EF. Russia is a close political friend. US is trying to woo us anyway and it has nothing to do with selling some 100 odd aircraft. France will be one of our best buddies for many years. So, that leaves; England, Spain, Germany and Italy have a lot to offer in politics and this deal will increase our diplomatic leverage with them. We also get to be a partner nation and perhaps export the fighter to other countries too. Win Win Win all the way. Oh! And the aircraft is very good in a technical perspective. So, IAF will be happy too.
 

nandu

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
1,913
Likes
163
Eurofighter gets good vibes on MMRCA

The first spurts of information on the results of the trials conducted by the Indian Air Force (IAF) for its 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender are starting to trickle out.

A confident Bernhard Gerwart, Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Military Air Systems at EADS Defence & Security, mingled with reporters in an informal chat with reporters in New Delhi on Tuesday and told them, "I believe we are compliant with all the requests that they have made. Yesterday, I had some meetings with representatives of the IAF and the MoD (Ministry of Defense) and, personally, I left with the impression that we had done well in the flight trials."

But Herr Gerwert did offer a caveat, saying, "Mind you it's just a feeling," while pointing out the IAF had made no official statement to him.

At any rate he confirmed separately to StratPost, he would be sleeping easier after getting these vibes. While this is hardly definitive confirmation of the Eurofighter Typhoon having performed well in the trials from the perspective of the IAF, it is perhaps indicative of the feedback given by the IAF to representatives of the company.

And while Gerwert didn't know if the IAF would come up with a short list or a 'long list', the issue of a down select remains open to question. It remains unclear whether any possible shortlist issued by the IAF would merely be an indication of preference or would actually result in the elimination of any of the contestants.

German Ambassador to India, Thomas Matussek, too, weighed in. "We have to see this in the geo-strategic context. Your security is our security," he said. Did he think that if the MMRCA comes down to being a political decision, the four-European nations backing EADS would have the political capital to compete with the US? "The simple answer is 'yes'. We're easily on the same par as the United States," he said.

The IAF is expected to submit its report on its evaluation of the six aircraft imminently, and industry watchers have been actively trying to get a sense of how it will play out. With the IAF enforcing a robust lockdown on any seepage of information so long as the report remains in their domain, defense journalists have been reduced to speculation on the play-out of the tender process.

Not surprisingly, reporters are straining their eyes trying to read between the lines of the statements issued by personalities such as Herr Gerwert and cryptic comments of IAF officers in private conversation, in the absence of any official indications.

There are some who argue that it would be in the interest of the IAF to indicate the results of the trials and its preferences, to make sure their views are not deviated from when the matter is laid before the Ministry of Defense. There are others who think this would be irrelevant, anticipating the IAF to indicate no clear preference one way or the other. Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin's F-16, Saab's Gripen IN, Dassault's Rafale and the MiG-35 are the other aircraft competing in the tender.

But IAF officials admit to being eminently aware of the possibility of the conclusions of the report becoming public, once it is submitted to the ministry. And all concerned agree, some interesting times lie ahead, when that happens.

http://idrw.org/?p=2531
 

icecoolben

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
472
Likes
5
For, Good resons I would mention later, I have left out the American and Russian fighters. The Gripen being in the Tejas mk-2 class and a previous engagement with Saab regarding saab 37 viggen sales makes gripen falls out of favour. the only contemperory fighters that I see as IAF's and GOI's low risk but valuable options are Rafale and Eurofighter. Especially Rafale having the ACE card of being an all french fighter, can provide us with the most comphrehensive technology transfer. Well, I favor the Eurofighter typhoon, simply for the program maturity. Though the French plane would have been ideal, since they offer to integrate kaveri in rafale and have worked with us periodically, when I see that still tagets are designated by mirages, new upgrades for UAE are still being worked out. I believe the rafale is still not a complete product. With the French govt drip feeding the programme, the additional develpment funds have to be passed onto the customer, which can raise the cost of the aircraft substantially.Thus the Eurofighter would score better on the overall life cycle costs better than the rafale.

Rafale fans answer this question, the airframe life of EUrofighter is 6000 hrs, how much for the rafale? quote an official domain pls.

If we still think the unlimited technology transfer rafale can bring would swing the deal, we are still living in the past. 50 years of licence production has produced no exceptional competence and probably never will.
On the other hand,the Engineering excellence center for Eurofighter in India that EADS proposes, would employ 20,000 engineers who can create more advanced technology than in the present rafale or the eurofighter, not just for the Indian typhoonS but also LCA tejas, Su-30 mki, FGFA and may be the conceptual AMCA/NGFA. Avionics and other vital components can be leveraged for the civilian industry as well. the IPR would stay with India. Dassalt's effort have been lax, only Dasssalt automotive systems has a research centre in India. Hence India aerospace industry has a chance to take the great leap forward by Eurofighter selection than Rafale.

The following are both the enterprises attitude towads India

http://www.eads.com/eads/int/en/our...y-Licensing-News/Archive/India-evolving-.html

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en...gns-with-incat-and-tata-technologies.html?L=1
 

Crusader53

Regular Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
772
Likes
38
Eurofighter gets good vibes on MMRCA

The first spurts of information on the results of the trials conducted by the Indian Air Force (IAF) for its 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender are starting to trickle out.

A confident Bernhard Gerwart, Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Military Air Systems at EADS Defence & Security, mingled with reporters in an informal chat with reporters in New Delhi on Tuesday and told them, "I believe we are compliant with all the requests that they have made. Yesterday, I had some meetings with representatives of the IAF and the MoD (Ministry of Defense) and, personally, I left with the impression that we had done well in the flight trials."

But Herr Gerwert did offer a caveat, saying, "Mind you it's just a feeling," while pointing out the IAF had made no official statement to him.

At any rate he confirmed separately to StratPost, he would be sleeping easier after getting these vibes. While this is hardly definitive confirmation of the Eurofighter Typhoon having performed well in the trials from the perspective of the IAF, it is perhaps indicative of the feedback given by the IAF to representatives of the company.

And while Gerwert didn't know if the IAF would come up with a short list or a 'long list', the issue of a down select remains open to question. It remains unclear whether any possible shortlist issued by the IAF would merely be an indication of preference or would actually result in the elimination of any of the contestants.

German Ambassador to India, Thomas Matussek, too, weighed in. "We have to see this in the geo-strategic context. Your security is our security," he said. Did he think that if the MMRCA comes down to being a political decision, the four-European nations backing EADS would have the political capital to compete with the US? "The simple answer is 'yes'. We're easily on the same par as the United States," he said.

The IAF is expected to submit its report on its evaluation of the six aircraft imminently, and industry watchers have been actively trying to get a sense of how it will play out. With the IAF enforcing a robust lockdown on any seepage of information so long as the report remains in their domain, defense journalists have been reduced to speculation on the play-out of the tender process.

Not surprisingly, reporters are straining their eyes trying to read between the lines of the statements issued by personalities such as Herr Gerwert and cryptic comments of IAF officers in private conversation, in the absence of any official indications.

There are some who argue that it would be in the interest of the IAF to indicate the results of the trials and its preferences, to make sure their views are not deviated from when the matter is laid before the Ministry of Defense. There are others who think this would be irrelevant, anticipating the IAF to indicate no clear preference one way or the other. Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin's F-16, Saab's Gripen IN, Dassault's Rafale and the MiG-35 are the other aircraft competing in the tender.

But IAF officials admit to being eminently aware of the possibility of the conclusions of the report becoming public, once it is submitted to the ministry. And all concerned agree, some interesting times lie ahead, when that happens.

http://idrw.org/?p=2531
The Typhoon is likely the most expensive (Unit Cost) of all of the MMRCA Contenders! Though its life cycle costs are good. Regardless, I see its odds of winning as average at best...........IMHO
 

icecoolben

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
472
Likes
5
Typhoon being a mature programme with 600 + orders is easy to maintain logistically and upgrade by spreading development cost in the long haul, than mig-35, gripen NG and to a lesser extent rafale.
 

Crusader53

Regular Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
772
Likes
38
Typhoon being a mature programme with 600 + orders is easy to maintain logistically and upgrade by spreading development cost in the long haul, than mig-35, gripen NG and to a lesser extent rafale.

The Typhoon while mature in some respects. Is lacking in several key areas. Including AESA Radar and Future Upgrades to its Engines (i.e. EJ-200)
 

luckyy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
568
Likes
3
But IAF officials admit to being eminently aware of the possibility of the conclusions of the report becoming public, once it is submitted to the ministry.
has IAF decided which one they want to buy , something cooking inside.........

first it was the German Ambassador to India , and now Chief Executive Officer at EADS ....

it seem to me EFT all the way !!!
 
Last edited:

nrj

Ambassador
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
9,658
Likes
3,911
Country flag
DRDO left the Selex for the partner of desi AESA development. While Selex-Galileo will be developing AESA for Gripen NG & EF. I do not know how these factors will afects EF/Gripen NG's bid in MRCA. Rafale on the other side will be receiving Thales's ready AESA early next year for integration. That leaves Rafale & F18 ahead in the race in terms of AESA IMO.
 

SHASH2K2

New Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
5,711
Likes
730
Gripen, Eurofighter in Farnborough show-off

Two fighter aircraft in the running for the Indian Air Force (IAF) competition for 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) are going to be putting their best feet forward next week at the Farnborough International Air Show in the United Kingdom.

While Saab will be making the international public debut of its Gripen NG demonstrator aircraft, first at the Royal International Air Tattoo (RIAT) at RAF Fairford, and then at Farnborough, the Eurofighter Typhoon will be displayed with full weapons payload, flying with all 13 hard points occupied. This will include four Paveway II laser guided bombs, 3 fuel tanks, four AMRAAMs (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles) and two ASRAAMs (Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missiles), which the aircraft will be carrying while 'pulling up to 5.5G and in excess of 20 degrees angle of attack', according to a press release.

The Indian Minister of State for Defense, Dr. MM Pallam Raju will also be present at the air show, along with Secretary, Defense Production, Raj Kumar Singh and Air Marshal S Mukerji, Commander-in-Chief, Southern Air Command.

The Eurofighter Typhoon statement says, "Most air displays are achieved by reducing fuel and weapon loads, however with this display, IPA 5 (the aircraft in question) demonstrates significant weapon carriage and maneuverability whilst still being able to demonstrate carefree handling for the pilot."

Apparently, the Gripen NG demonstrator was available for display at Fairford and Farnborough because of vacations at home. "The extensive flight test program with Gripen NG Demonstrator aircraft continues successfully and according to plan at the Saab facilities in Linköping, Sweden. This gives us the unique opportunity to bring the aircraft to UK during the Swedish summer holiday break," says Lennart Sindahl, Senior Vice President Saab AB and Head of Business Area Aeronautics, in the statement.

The only other time the demonstrator has been abroad is when it visited India in May for evaluations by the IAF for the MMRCA contest. "This demanding evaluation phase included operations at the Indian air base Leh, situated 3300 meters above sea level. During this time, the aircraft also passed its 150th flight and to date it has conducted more than 175 successful flights," said a company statement.

The statement also said Saab is currently testing all the tactical systems, such as the AESA radar and the new communications system. "The test program is very extensive, we have finished, and successfully verified, the flight tests of the electro-optical Missile Approach Warning System (MAWS) and the new fuel system with larger internal fuel tanks," says Mattias Bergström, the Gripen NG Demonstrator project manager, in the statement.
http://www.stratpost.com/gripen-eurofighter-in-farnborough-show-off
 

neo29

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
1,284
Likes
30
All over the news related to mmrca there is always EF thats mostly seen. Seems like a strategy of our establishment to psychologically make the public understand that EF is the winner.
 

EagleOne

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
886
Likes
87
MMRCA aircrafts to be deployed to face chinese threat in North East !!

IAF is already working to deploy its front line primary air superiority fighter Sukhoi Su-30MKI in North Easter forward bases close to Indo-china border ,but also has made plans to deploy MMRCA aircrafts in the same sector which along with MKI will act has deterrence against Chinese air intrusions .

Sources close to idrw.org have also reported that IAF wants a long legged aircraft (More Range), Due to scarcity of airbase located in North eastern sector and also due to thousand of miles of Mountainous areas, aircraft will not only require to carry lot of internal fuel but also heavy air to air weapons combo , IAF currently unwilling to operate large tanker aircrafts from north eastern sector initially due to smaller airbases which might create logistical problems for the tankers .

If Sources are to be believed almost half the MMRCA (126 no) aircrafts will operate from forward North eastern and eastern sector .currently Mig-21 and Mig-27 aircrafts operate from North eastern sector , IAF also plans to operate LCA-Tejas in Western sector along with other remaining MMRCA aircrafts .

As per Idrw.org MMRCA aircraft which IAF want might be a twin engine aircraft since range requirement will a crucial factor which will determine the aircraft to be chosen along with other requirements

http://idrw.org/?p=2562
ACOORDING TO THIS ONLY FOUR REMIANS
Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet,Dassault Rafale,Eurofighter Typhoon,Mikoyan MiG-35
 
Last edited:

luckyy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
568
Likes
3
DRDO is under US sanction......

how could a fighter aircraft ( f-16/18) can fly in india without the involvment of DRDO...
 
Last edited:

EagleOne

Regular Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
886
Likes
87
E1 even ISRO is under US sanction, I can bet you that will not remove it from the list. Also DRDO scientists who are all on duty are denied visa to the NATO nations.
this is true but if they want full strategic patnership then they have to lift no other option for them in futher they require mutual patnership in many fields....IMO
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
You may or may not know, I have been on a quest to compile the IR signatures of todays latest figheters to compare to Rafale. Well, I have a new one for you... this one includes Su-30MKI and oh oh ... F-22!

 
Last edited by a moderator:

StealthSniper

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
1,111
Likes
61
If we look at our geo-political situation, if we have the Eurofighter, China and Pakistan have no answer for it and the good news is, a lot of other European customers are operating it and the plane has a clear tranche upgrade path for the present and future. Also awarding the Mirage 2000 contract and the Scorpene deal is enough for the French and we have an opportunity to get in the good books of alot of other European nations if we get the Eurofighter and it can have a huge political advantage and technology transfer advantage.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top