Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[Kumaoni]

MF we used to use the same camo as well

 

[nongaddarliberal]

We were unironically on par with the west back in the 90s. Even the comments in the American post can confirm this. They didn’t rally change gear till Iraq nd Afghanistan

I remember seeing the Iraq war videos as a kid when it used to come on the news on TV. As a 7 year old back then with zero knowledge about military equipment, the moment I saw US soldiers there on the TV, I knew instinctively that they're equipped way better than our guys, and wished our guys had it too. It's funny how even a kid can just inuitively sense the difference without any military knowledge. Since the early 2000's, since childhood basically, I've been waiting with baited breath for the day the Indian infantryman starts looking modern, and it's been a long long wait.

 

[Kumaoni]

I remember seeing the Iraq war videos as a kid when it used to come on the news on TV. As a 7 year old then with zero knowledge about military equipment, the moment I saw US soldiers operating there on the TV, I knew instinctively that they're equipped way better than our guys, and wished our guys had it too. It's funny how even a kid can just inuitively sense the difference without any military knowledge. Since the early 2000's, since childhood basically, I've been waiting with baited breath for the day the Indian infantryman starts looking modern, and it's been a long long wait.

We were on par before though, just slightly worse equipped, idk why Iraq war and Afghanistan led to such rapid changes. Even their training was Vietnam era till 2001 acc to ex American infantrymen.

Jai ho gang would actually be right if we were in 1995

 

[nongaddarliberal]

We were on par before though, just slightly worse equipped, idk why Iraq war and Afghanistan led to such rapid changes. Even their training was Vietnam era till 2001 acc to ex American infantrymen.

Jai ho gang would actually be right if we were in 1995

The changes started with their SF and elite troops in the early 90s itself. Their Delta force and rangers were equipped upto early WOT era gear back in 1993, seen in their operations in Somalia. This gear then percolated to the rest of their infantry by the time WOT starts. BPJ, Kevlar helmets, and NVG mounts. Kevlar helmets became standard with the Americans in the early 80s, with the rest of NATO adopting it in the 90s.

Here's a real photo of the rangers from 1993.

Here's delta force in 1993 with holographic sights

 

[Kumaoni]

The changes started with their SF and elite troops in the early 90s itself. Their Delta force and rangers were equipped upto early WOT era gear back in 1993, seen in their operations in Somalia. This gear then percolated to the rest of their infantry by the time WOT starts. BPJ, Kevlar helmets, and NVG mounts. Kevlar helmets became standard with the Americans in the early 80s, with the rest of NATO adopting it in the 90s.

Here's a real photo of the rangers from 1993.

View attachment 216919

Here's delta force in 1993 with holographic sights

View attachment 216920

So that’s why their infantry rapidly changed in the 2000s. Look at the comments, even Americans are shocked by how badly equipped they were. Just shows how tech changes

 

[nongaddarliberal]

So that’s why their infantry rapidly changed in the 2000s. Look at the comments, even Americans are shocked by how badly equipped they were. Just shows how tech changes

But it still means that they had already produced this equipment in large numbers when WOT started. They were probably going to transition them to this kit even if WOT didn't happen, maybe 2-3 years slower. But yeah, I also made a comment before on how Indian infantry was upto western standards until the early 90s, even with financial constraints, but then our generals somehow completely dropped the ball in the 21st century.

 

[Kumaoni]

But it still means that they had already produced this equipment in large numbers when WOT started. They were probably going to transition them to this kit even if WOT didn't happen, maybe 2-3 years slower.

When did paras adopt BPJ?

 

[nongaddarliberal]

When did paras adopt BPJ?

BPJ has been there in Kashmir since the 90s. Paras would have used it even then when they wanted to.

 

[Kumaoni]

BPJ has been there in Kashmir since the 90s. Paras would have used it even then when they wanted to.

So at least we had a sense of procurement back then. We were far more organized, what happened between the 2000s?

 

[nongaddarliberal]

So at least we had a sense of procurement back then. We were far more organized, what happened between the 2000s?

Some sort of mental block regarding the infantry. Once more expensive gear like NVG's, modern BPJ's and accesories on rifles started becoming common in western infantry, our top brass decided they didn't want to spend that kind money on a lowly jawan, nor did they even see the potential in it. We were still modernizing fast in all other spheres of weaponry like tanks, fighter jets, cruise missiles, and destroyers. But the infantry was kicked out of the modernization priority list except for nonsensical powerpoint presentations like F-INSAS. The first time our regulars operated ACOG's and NVG's was when the Americans came visiting for Yudh Abhyas in 2009, and they instantly loved the equipment. But it didn't make any difference to the decision making process for a long time.

Before the Sig 716, there was this embarrassing trend in international joint exercises, where our guys would abandon the INSAS for the foreign army's rifle for the entire duration of the exercise, even if they were visiting India, and when we were visiting them.

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

Some sort of mental block regarding the infantry. Once more expensive gear like NVG's, modern BPJ's and accesories on rifles started becoming common in western infantry, our top brass decided they didn't want to spend that kind money on a lowly jawan, nor did they even see the potential in it. We were still modernizing fast in all other spheres of weaponry like tanks, fighter jets, cruise missiles, and destroyers. But the infantry was kicked out of the modernization priority list except for nonsensical powerpoint presentations like F-INSAS. The first time our regulars operated ACOG's and NVG's was when the Americans came visiting for Yudh Abhyas in 2009, and they instantly loved the equipment. But it didn't make any difference to the decision making process for a long time.

Before the Sig 716, there was this embarrassing trend in international joint exercises, where our guys would abandon the INSAS for the foreign army's rifle for the entire duration of the exercise, even if they were visiting India, and when we were visiting them.

Even after SiG has been issued, some units still used their host country's rifle for the entire duration

Like the time a unit of the Bihar Regiment visited UK and used the L85A3 few months ago

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

It costs like 1300 dollars ( 1lakh something) for a good infantry gear with PCs, warbelts and pouches and an IFAK (excluding the price for the plates itself)

If focused on Infantry modernisation only, there's like approx 4 lakh troops in total


The cost is running into 56 million dollars lmao


I mean it's not unreasonable since it can be kind of be done under the budget if there's a push for infantry modernisation, plus a bulky order would also have a reasonable discount so there's that


It's not even about the money now, it's just nobody gives a shit about the Infantry. Why?

 

[Kumaoni]

It costs like 1300 dollars ( 1lakh something) for a good infantry gear with PCs, warbelts and pouches and an IFAK (excluding the price for the plates itself)

If focused on Infantry modernisation only, there's like approx 4 lakh troops in total


The cost is running into 56 million dollars lmao


I mean it's not unreasonable since it can be kind of be done under the budget if there's a push for infantry modernisation, plus a bulky order would also have a reasonable discount so there's that


It's not even about the money now, it's just nobody gives a shit about the Infantry. Why?

Niggas will buy tanks and then claim they don’t have funds. Turth is army brass and the MoD are busy pleasing their foreign masters buying Junk like Tavor for SF and T series tanks. Tired of hearing muh insecure funds, how much does the army spend on tanks?

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

Niggas will buy tanks and then claim they don’t have funds. Turth is army brass and the MoD are busy pleasing their foreign masters buying Junk like Tavor for SF and T series tanks. Tired of hearing muh insecure funds, how much does the army spend on tanks?

Bro the T-series (I'm going to chock saying this cus there's another cringe T-Series) tanks are just bad for this age. Leopards and Abrams are going to blow them to kingdom come, I mean they already did in Iraq and Kuwait, now it won't be too soon in Ukraine either. Half of the tank units haven't received anything brand new yet either, I don't even know what's happening lmao


What's even more stupid was that proposed plan to buy fucking jetpacks. Seriously? Are you fucking serious?

 

[Kumaoni]

Bro the T-series (I'm going to chock saying this cus there's another cringe T-Series) tanks are just bad for this age. Leopards and Abrams are going to blow them to kingdom come, I mean they already did in Iraq and Kuwait, now it won't be too soon in Ukraine either. Half of the tank units haven't received anything brand new yet either, I don't even know what's happening lmao


What's even more stupid was that proposed plan to buy fucking jetpacks. Seriously? Are you fucking serious?

Leopards are ass. Already got exposed in Ukraine: Abrams are also ineffective in winter terrain

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Like the time a unit of the Bihar Regiment visited UK and used the L85A3 few months ago

That's because taking your own weapons to another country requires alot of paperwork and hassel so most countries avoid doing that when going to another country

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

Leopards are ass. Already got exposed in Ukraine: Abrams are also ineffective in winter terrain

Eh Idk about Leopards or Abrams but seeing the images from counter offensive of AFU, seems like they used Soviet tactics for Western tanks

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

That's because taking your own weapons to another country requires alot of paperwork and hassel so most countries avoid doing that when going to another country

I see, that makes sense tbh.

 

[JBH22]

Eh Idk about Leopards or Abrams but seeing the images from counter offensive of AFU, seems like they used Soviet tactics for Western tanks

What is western tactics? Fighting against demoralized forces or rag tag militias?
Let me know last time they fought a near peer.

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

What is western tactics? Fighting against demoralized forces or rag tag militias?
Let me know last time they fought a near peer.

Idk maybe Desert Storm, Iraq was the 4th most powerful military then so not like they were ragtag


Remind me again who won WW2.