Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[Angel of War]

Makes it for ease of supply & logistics. A professional army thing of logistics first while an amateur army think of tactics and latest capabilities.

An army with a functional structural organisation is called a professional army . It's not about tactics or capabilities

 

[Blademaster]

An army with a functional structural organisation is called a professional army . It's not about tactics or capabilities

Not to mention war strategy planning that takes logistics into account.

 

[Angel of War]

Not to mention war strategy planning that takes logistics into account.

Yes , it is the backbone of every army .

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I have 4 things to confirm -

Do we have a CarL gustav per section or per platoon?
The MBGL (not the tripod mounted AGL) - At which level are they used?
Considering we have 72 LMGs per battalion,we have 2 LMGs per section(2 negevs per section would be brutal)
At which level are MANPADS allocated?

But we need a squad DMR 7.62x51 as standard in every squad.All the major militaries incl chinese have DMR in squad.

 

[Angel of War]

I have 4 things to confirm -

Do we have a CarL gustav per section or per platoon?
The MBGL (not the tripod mounted AGL) - At which level are they used?
Considering we have 72 LMGs per battalion,we have 2 LMGs per section(2 negevs per section would be brutal)
At which level are MANPADS allocated?

But we need a squad DMR 7.62x51 as standard in every squad.All the major militaries incl chinese have DMR in squad.

This will clear all your doubts . It's a bit old but accurate http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/units/4-infantry-bn-structure.html

 

[Angel of War]

I have 4 things to confirm -

Do we have a CarL gustav per section or per platoon?
The MBGL (not the tripod mounted AGL) - At which level are they used?
Considering we have 72 LMGs per battalion,we have 2 LMGs per section(2 negevs per section would be brutal)
At which level are MANPADS allocated?

But we need a squad DMR 7.62x51 as standard in every squad.All the major militaries incl chinese have DMR in squad.

Carl Gustave is a platoon level anti tank weapon .

 

[Aditya Ballal]

This will clear all your doubts . It's a bit old but accurate http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/units/4-infantry-bn-structure.html

Sig pistol? Are they referring to a signal pistol?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

This will clear all your doubts . It's a bit old but accurate http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/units/4-infantry-bn-structure.html

This is old structure.75mm RCL no longer used.72 LMG per battalion.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

View attachment 155293
Sig pistol? Are they referring to a signal pistol?

Also how many infantry battalions does the Indian Army have?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Also how many infantry battalions does the Indian Army have?

340 Infantry and mountain
50 mechanized
10 Para SF
5 airborne
65 rashtriya rifles
40 assam rifles

So nearly 500 battalions in all.

 

[Angel of War]

View attachment 155293
Sig pistol? Are they referring to a signal pistol?

Hmmmm. Not sure....

 

[Angel of War]

72 LMG per battalion.

Are you sure there are 72 LMGs ? Source ?

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Also how many infantry battalions does the Indian Army have?

390 infantry battalion (minus RR and AR) with a plan to expand to 400 battalions

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Are you sure there are 72 LMGs ? Source ?

Veterans in quora are saying it.

How many machine gunners are there in a single battalion of the Indian Army? Can an officer act as an MG/LMG operator on the front or dur...

Answer (1 of 3): Talking of Machine gunners in a Indian Infantry battalion, firstly is the MMG platoon guys, who provide eight MMGs to the unit. They are the real machine gunners who fire belted ammunition at a rapid rate, others are just automatic weapons guys Manning light machine guns ( LMGs) ...

www.quora.com

2016 report says 2 LMG per section.

'Each Soldier Carries About 40 kg In Battle': Why The Army Cannot Downsize

The scope to cut down the manpower in the Army does not exist, a top commander in the Army has told NDTV. Just last week, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had said "there is need to cut down on flab" given the steady increase in salary and pension bill of the military.

www.ndtv.com

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

A veteran also said 40 LMG per battalion in mountains and 75 in plains.I think this was before china.Has IA made any changes since then?Why have less LMG in mountain terrain?Problem of ammo resupply?

Reposting from an earlier thread -these are interesting proposals that BiRa initiated.Wonder what is their status after his unfortunate passing?

https://www.business-standard.com/a...-manpower-intensive-force-118091600265_1.html

Reorganisation of combat units

''Practically guaranteeing resistance from within, Rawat has directed that flab cutting must include that holiest of holy cows, the infantry battalion. Since the Army has 450 infantry battalions (each with 22 officers and 850 soldiers) paring 25 men from each battalion would result in the reduction of 11,250 men.

Wisely, the Army chief has formulated an operational rationale for this reorganisation, which will be overseen by the Army’s “perspective planning” chief Lieutenant General Rajeshwar. An infantry battalion currently has four rifle companies, each with about 125 men. This is partly based on the logic that when the battalion is given a task, such as attacking an enemy position, it can attack with two companies, with the other two in reserve, in case added punch is needed. Now, it will be considered whether, instead of pessimistically catering for reinforcing both forward companies, it would be wiser to keep just one company in reserve, while adding to the probability of initial success by strengthening each company to 170 men. In the new proposals, a company would also be authorised a ghatak (commando) section of 14 soldiers for special tasks. For example, a company attacking a hill feature could send its ghatak section to lay an ambush to cut off the enemy’s withdrawal. With three strengthened companies, the infantry battalion’s bayonet strength would remain the same, but eliminating one company headquarters would save 25 men.

Infantry reorganisation would extend to the grassroots, with a 10-man infantry section being strengthened to 14 soldiers, thus empowering the section commander, normally a havaldar (sergeant). A platoon, with three strengthened sections, would go up from the current 36 soldiers to 50 men.

Another measure that Rajeshwar will consider is flattening the hierarchy of higher headquarters. Currently, the division, with about 18,000-20,000 soldiers, is the lowest formation that comprises all the elements needed for combat — infantry, armour, artillery, engineers, signals and logistics. In wartime, those elements are often decentralised to constitute a self-sufficient “brigade group” for independent missions. Extending that model of decentralisation to peacetime as well would eliminate numerous manpower-heavy division headquarters, placing the brigades directly under corps headquarters.

Naturally, a divisional headquarters would be useful for coordinating an operation that involves two or three brigades, such as a strike corps offensive, which requires several armoured brigades to operate in unison. Strike formations, therefore, might as well retain the divisional structure. ''

 

[Blademaster]

A veteran also said 40 LMG per battalion in mountains and 75 in plains.I think this was before china.Has IA made any changes since then?Why have less LMG in mountain terrain?Problem of ammo resupply?

Reposting from an earlier thread -these are interesting proposals that BiRa initiated.Wonder what is their status after his unfortunate passing?

https://www.business-standard.com/a...-manpower-intensive-force-118091600265_1.html

Reorganisation of combat units

''Practically guaranteeing resistance from within, Rawat has directed that flab cutting must include that holiest of holy cows, the infantry battalion. Since the Army has 450 infantry battalions (each with 22 officers and 850 soldiers) paring 25 men from each battalion would result in the reduction of 11,250 men.

Wisely, the Army chief has formulated an operational rationale for this reorganisation, which will be overseen by the Army’s “perspective planning” chief Lieutenant General Rajeshwar. An infantry battalion currently has four rifle companies, each with about 125 men. This is partly based on the logic that when the battalion is given a task, such as attacking an enemy position, it can attack with two companies, with the other two in reserve, in case added punch is needed. Now, it will be considered whether, instead of pessimistically catering for reinforcing both forward companies, it would be wiser to keep just one company in reserve, while adding to the probability of initial success by strengthening each company to 170 men. In the new proposals, a company would also be authorised a ghatak (commando) section of 14 soldiers for special tasks. For example, a company attacking a hill feature could send its ghatak section to lay an ambush to cut off the enemy’s withdrawal. With three strengthened companies, the infantry battalion’s bayonet strength would remain the same, but eliminating one company headquarters would save 25 men.

Infantry reorganisation would extend to the grassroots, with a 10-man infantry section being strengthened to 14 soldiers, thus empowering the section commander, normally a havaldar (sergeant). A platoon, with three strengthened sections, would go up from the current 36 soldiers to 50 men.

Another measure that Rajeshwar will consider is flattening the hierarchy of higher headquarters. Currently, the division, with about 18,000-20,000 soldiers, is the lowest formation that comprises all the elements needed for combat — infantry, armour, artillery, engineers, signals and logistics. In wartime, those elements are often decentralised to constitute a self-sufficient “brigade group” for independent missions. Extending that model of decentralisation to peacetime as well would eliminate numerous manpower-heavy division headquarters, placing the brigades directly under corps headquarters.

Naturally, a divisional headquarters would be useful for coordinating an operation that involves two or three brigades, such as a strike corps offensive, which requires several armoured brigades to operate in unison. Strike formations, therefore, might as well retain the divisional structure. ''

Despite what this one author may think about the HQs, HQs are quite useful because they preserve combat awareness and cohesiveness and continuity to combat operations. Look at how Russian Army did its operations using BTRs instead of brigade level combat operations and the result was that the HQs were overwhelmed with too many priority requests or orders by each BTR. You need HQs to coordinate the soldiers on where to go and how to attack and get the big overall picture of the local area and in some instances beyond the local area. You don't want to have 9-10 units screaming at you and asking you for orders. It would be combat information overload. So you need to preserve sufficient HQs to manage and coordinate the battle units.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Also good to learn each indian infantry battalion has formed or is in process of raising/planning to -

A ghatak commando assault platoon
A UAV platoon
A sniper company with 10 sniper rifles.
16 Long range thermal imager per battalion

I think soon we will see drones/loitering munitions integrated at platoon level.(the loitering munition could be fireable from the 2 inch mortar of the platoon support section)
We should also see EW or jammers or direct fire anti drone guns soon maybe at platoon or company level.

But we desperately need a designated marksman per squad.The chinese have them and that puts us at a range disadvantage per section.

 

[NotASussyBoi]

Also good to learn each indian infantry battalion has formed or is in process of raising/planning to -

A ghatak commando assault platoon
A UAV platoon
A sniper company with 10 sniper rifles.
16 Long range thermal imager per battalion

I think soon we will see drones/loitering munitions integrated at platoon level.(the loitering munition could be fireable from the 2 inch mortar of the platoon support section)
We should also see EW or jammers or direct fire anti drone guns soon maybe at platoon or company level.

But we desperately need a designated marksman per squad.The chinese have them and that puts us at a range disadvantage per section.

if only those sig 716 were jugaad to a standard dmr,it would have fixed the dmr problem

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

if only those sig 716 were jugaad to a standard dmr,it would have fixed the dmr problem

SSS defence has a new 7.62x51 with a range 1000-1200m which is really good for DMR.Should be worth a trial.

 

[Longewala]

340 Infantry and mountain
50 mechanized
10 Para SF
5 airborne
65 rashtriya rifles
40 assam rifles

So nearly 500 battalions in all.

How do you arrive at 50 mechanised battalions
Right now we have 3 armoured div (3*4 mech bn), 7 Rapid (7*2), 2 mech brigade (2*2), about 7 armoured brigades on the West (6*1, 1*2 as one armoured brigade has a 4+2 structure instead of 3+1)
Plus a few more battalions on the East, adds up to 40-45.

Though would make sense to mechanise some more battalions considering how cheap and effective BMP-2s are.