Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

ezsasa

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Read again, there is word 'could' in the heading itself😋.
Btw Northern command had given an order for 60 or so as per article.So most probably just like what had happened with Aks some of the Svds too will get updated and if thats worth the money more will get upfated meanwhile.Throwing away the scarcely used Svds and buying much costlier. 338 lapua weapons is not a solution.If the barrel is not worn out the update is worth every penny as we had seen what US army had done with their surplus M-14s. Buying more Galils is not at all a feasible option.
I have been wary of usage of words “could” and “May” in news reports for a long time, they pad up a news report with one or two lines of factual information, and then peddle opinion using the words “could” “May” etc.


Anyways, FAB Defence also has a kit for SVD isn’t it?
 

ALBY

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I have been wary of usage of words “could” and “May” in news reports for a long time, they pad up a news report with one or two lines of factual information, and then peddle opinion using the words “could” “May” etc.


Anyways, FAB Defence also has a kit for SVD isn’t it?
They are just giving a promo for SSS defence.But must tell u the update option offered by Kalashnikov for Svd is a bit low compared with SSS atleast from what we see.
Btw Fab defence offers complete range of update for Svd but i miss a sturdy top receiver with inbuilt rails just like what they offered for Aks, but instead a side mounted P-rail has been offered just like what we see in Galatz.
Though dont know whether Fab is jncluded in the negative import list
 

Hari Sud

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Since the ATAGS barrel burst and its withdrawal from testing, we have heard nothing about the committee report to pinpoint the cause of the barrel burst. As usual the OFB has put out a flimsy reason for the accident as poor maintenance and barrel not designed for 7 charges. These flimsy reasons are to be dumped as the gun has fired greater than 100 rounds in test elsewhere with 7 charges. OFB is also part of the committee to sabotage the report, if it put the blame squarely on their shoulders.

Our curiosity multiplies as no report has been put out in public domain to pinpoint the causes. With China being very active at LAC, we need this hardware much more quickly and flimsy reasons of the OFB are to be dumped in the gutter. It also tells Army to source 155mm ammunition from elsewhere.

There are forces within the country working to decimate ATAGS as a main piece of artillery in favour of imports. Locally made gun offers no chance to arms dealers in London any opportunity to collect commission, hence instead of spending months investigating and reaching no conclusions, we are better off to manufacture this gun in large number and hire private sector source for 155mm ammunition.
 

Longewala

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Since the ATAGS barrel burst and its withdrawal from testing, we have heard nothing about the committee report to pinpoint the cause of the barrel burst. As usual the OFB has put out a flimsy reason for the accident as poor maintenance and barrel not designed for 7 charges. These flimsy reasons are to be dumped as the gun has fired greater than 100 rounds in test elsewhere with 7 charges. OFB is also part of the committee to sabotage the report, if it put the blame squarely on their shoulders.

Our curiosity multiplies as no report has been put out in public domain to pinpoint the causes. With China being very active at LAC, we need this hardware much more quickly and flimsy reasons of the OFB are to be dumped in the gutter. It also tells Army to source 155mm ammunition from elsewhere.

There are forces within the country working to decimate ATAGS as a main piece of artillery in favour of imports. Locally made gun offers no chance to arms dealers in London any opportunity to collect commission, hence instead of spending months investigating and reaching no conclusions, we are better off to manufacture this gun in large number and hire private sector source for 155mm ammunition.
The solution would be to induct large numbers of Dhanush, which is tested, cheap, huge advance over existing 105 mm stocks and completely outranges and outclasses anything the Napaks have....
And focus on working the kinks out on the Atags over the next few years


The only problem is some senior army generals would rather blame ofb and force their soldiers to rely on old weapons than give up their need for foreign weapons
 

WolfPack86

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Indian Army’s Russian Dragunov sniper rifle could soon get long-awaited upgrade

The long-awaited upgrade of the legendary Dragunov sniper rifle, commonly known in the armed forces as DSR, could soon be a reality as an Indian private company has come out with an indigenous solution that gives the weapon night-firing capability, besides other new features. While the Russian manufacturer of the rifle, Kalashnikov, has also come up with an upgrade, the upgrade programme is mentioned in the negative import list put out by the defence ministry in August. The cut-off date mentioned in the negative import list is December 2020. Bangalore-based firm SSS Defence has come out with an upgrade, which also brings down the recoil, besides giving it a bipod. While the Northern Command has come out with a Request for Proposal for the upgrade of 90 pieces of the nearly three-decade-old rifle, the Army is estimated to have anywhere between 6,000-7,000 pieces. What are DSRs? Designed by a Soviet weapon designer, Yevgeny Dragunov, in the late 1950s, the DSR is a gas-operated short-stroke piston rifle. The weapon was put through exhaustive testing across environments before the former Soviet armed forces began inducting them. By the late 1970s, the weapon was used in combat in several countries across continents. The Indian Army has been one of the largest users of the DSR and its different versions have been supplied by Kalashnikov. While Army officers still swear by the ability of the DSR that has an effective range of around 800 metres, they say that mission criteria and nature of operations has changed over time. The weapons have largely not undergone any major modification except what is known as ‘Special Operations Modifications’. The DSRs in service with the Indian Army, for the most part, don’t have the ability to operate with an inline clip on day-sight and night-sight together. “In fact, the DSR does not offer a system to mount night vision at all. Even the sniper scopes that can be used in conjunction are limited to a 4x magnification and modern day sniper scopes can’t be mounted at all,” a source said. Also, the weapon can’t use stability-imparting accessories like a bipod, the source added. Older versions of DSRs, which populate the Indian Army’s arsenal, have wooden buttstocks and a recoil that affects accuracy and convenience of use. Why is the Army looking at upgrading DSRs? According to sources, the barrel of a DSR can easily fire up to 7,000 rounds and most have not done more than 3,000 each. “This means that the rifle still has a long life ahead. It may not be a sniper weapon in the present day, but it is still a decent squad ‘Designated Marksman Rifle’ or DMR. The Army will easily take a few years to acquire and induct a more lethal sniper weapon with effective ranges of 1.2 km and above,” a second source said. “The modern day sniper variants that the Indian Army plans to procure and have procured in limited numbers are intended for long-range targeting. Taking them into combat at intermediate ranges of 500m to 800m with expensive ammunition and high-trained snipers is the equivalent of taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut,” the source added. What does the upgrade of DSR mean? A DSR upgrade can help bridge the gap between the age-old precision weapon and demands of modern infantry warfare. According to SSS Defence, its upgrade significantly reduces recoil with a new tactical buttstock with a built-in monopod and adjustable cheek rest.
 

Tridev123

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Since the ATAGS barrel burst and its withdrawal from testing, we have heard nothing about the committee report to pinpoint the cause of the barrel burst. As usual the OFB has put out a flimsy reason for the accident as poor maintenance and barrel not designed for 7 charges. These flimsy reasons are to be dumped as the gun has fired greater than 100 rounds in test elsewhere with 7 charges. OFB is also part of the committee to sabotage the report, if it put the blame squarely on their shoulders.

Our curiosity multiplies as no report has been put out in public domain to pinpoint the causes. With China being very active at LAC, we need this hardware much more quickly and flimsy reasons of the OFB are to be dumped in the gutter. It also tells Army to source 155mm ammunition from elsewhere.

There are forces within the country working to decimate ATAGS as a main piece of artillery in favour of imports. Locally made gun offers no chance to arms dealers in London any opportunity to collect commission, hence instead of spending months investigating and reaching no conclusions, we are better off to manufacture this gun in large number and hire private sector source for 155mm ammunition.
I agree. As far as possible indigenously developed and manufactured products should be used provided minimum standards are met.

The M777 ULH did not meet all the SQR's but relaxation was given to enable it to enter service. I believe the barrel bursting incident is a temporary setback to ATAGS and it should be selected on merits. We had similar barrel bursts with both the M777 and Dhanush. But both received orders. Regarding the present weight of the ATAGS it's reduction can be attempted. The ATAGS brings extra capability in the form of longer range and 6 round burst fire. So some relaxation in the weight stipulations can be given. Still I believe the manufacturers will be able to bring down the weight over time.

I really want the OFB units especially those involved in ammunition manufacture to face the heat of competition. As a trial case a few items of ammunition like tank shells and artillery shells should be made in the private sector. The OFB made tank shells and artillery shells should be compared against the same products made by the private company and if in this quality comparison the OFB fails, then the OFB should be drastically restructured or even privatised.

There should be at least a few cases of competition between the OFB and the private sector in a few weapon/ammunition categories. The results should be widely publicised. The OFB should lose tenders for ammunition purchase floated by the Army to the private sector(assuming that the private sector produces better quality ammunition). This will shame them out of their complacency and spur reforms.

For too long we have been grappling with the problem of defective ammunition. The issue needs to be resolved. Nobody is saying that the private sector is God but if they manage to deliver on an average better quality products than the OFB then they should be encouraged.

Taking Japan as the standard for quality.
When will our indigenous products begin to enjoy the reputation that is associated with the Japanese products. We should strive to even exceed the Japanese standards of production.
 

ALBY

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@Johny_Baba
Whats your take on the new Svd update offered by SSS. Read your posts that its just copies of western designs rebranded as that of SSS. So if thats true, the proposed update of Svds by SSS will be a No go?
Also just going by the pics of the upgrade they offered can u make a comparison between the upgraded SVD and Galatz in SF inventory? Which one will be better?
 

ManhattanProject

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@Johny_Baba
Whats your take on the new Svd update offered by SSS. Read your posts that its just copies of western designs rebranded as that of SSS. So if thats true, the proposed update of Svds by SSS will be a No go?
Also just going by the pics of the upgrade they offered can u make a comparison between the upgraded SVD and Galatz in SF inventory? Which one will be better?
whats wrong with copying if it works?
Everyone is copying everyone in the firearms industry anyways. And what sss is doing isnt copying but taking inspiration.
 

Killbot

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whats wrong with copying if it works?
Everyone is copying everyone in the firearms industry anyways. And what sss is doing isnt copying but taking inspiration.
Example: CZ BREN. Blatant copy of SCAR, and it is still doing well.
British SA 80, and even SCAR, for that matter, just stuck AR18 operating system in their Chassis. No need to make such a big deal of SSSD copying something like stock or grip.
 

Johny_Baba

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@Johny_Baba
Whats your take on the new Svd update offered by SSS. Read your posts that its just copies of western designs rebranded as that of SSS. So if thats true, the proposed update of Svds by SSS will be a No go?
Also just going by the pics of the upgrade they offered can u make a comparison between the upgraded SVD and Galatz in SF inventory? Which one will be better?
Well my skepticism towards their claims of it being indigenous on side for a second,

looks OK to me, like they provided a standard pistol grip + buttstock adapter for SVD to it thus making it possible to give it more ;Battle Rifle; like ergonomics,after that providing front handguards fastened on its default place i.e. on its barrel via those locking tabs and of course hinged top mounted rail that fastens on new pistol grip-buttstock adapter, setup doesn't seem so ideal to me for a long range sniper rifle but guess something's better than nothing, as long as they could make it stiff enough to not wobble it is fine.

Seems design is inspired from Arsenal M5F41 to me lol
1602595582721.png


BTW a sidenote,remember this pic ? probably taken at yudh abhyas or some other exercise...

1602597185250.png

^this upgrade was done by FAB guys with their pattern of pistol grip-buttstock adapter + collapsible buttstock with adjustable cheek piece and of course railed handguards (here covered by sectional rail covers)




They were *this* near to provide us full upgrade package for SVD as well but seems they didn't bother much with top rails much else they might've got the contract who knows.
 

abingdonboy

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Until this thing is ordered and inducted into domestic ops in India it's hard to get too excited but it is great to see it out there in the field and hopefully this will lead to successes on the domestic front.


There's a huge market for this kind of vehicle between the army and CAPFs


CISF has ordered the Renault Sherpa that must cost significantly more than this for protecting airports, CRPF has also inducted Sherpas into JK


All those up-armoured Gypsys have to be replaced sooner or later
could these be from 198 Whap tender from last year?
No, unrelated
 

ALBY

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whats wrong with copying if it works?
Everyone is copying everyone in the firearms industry anyways. And what sss is doing isnt copying but taking inspiration.
Copying and taking inspiration are entirely two different things.Copying without IPR rights attracts copy right violations unless the ipr time period has expired.
If the posts i read are correct they are just buying from here and there and assembling guns.
 

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