Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[Mangal]

IA also does make use of MKH/PA-1 which is PASGT type Kevlar helmet, but in limited number. You might have even noticed that when it comes to body armour, IA uses much less armour then compared to most of the world armies. For example have you ever seen elbow, knee or groin armour with any regular IA? But these are the must with any regular armed forces in US or some other country. Even the IA who are deployed on UN missions are equipped with MKH but not with other body armour.
Body armour does provide you with safety from rounds, but on other side, it restricts your basic body movements and this doesn't go well with performance of IA. No armed forces in world does operate in a versatile weather and geographical location like IA does. So more then being cheap, its the lightest of armour around which does protect armed forces from some very deadly rounds.

Yes, you are right about every army having its own tried and tested methods of fighting which are according to various situations it faces. But still it appears to me more of cost saving rather than being better that PATKA's are used. A small thing like gloves can make huge difference in a soldiers performance. Imagine a situation where a soldier suffers a cut in his palms or fingers which could have been avoided with use of gloves. I rarely see soldiers using gloves other than military exercises. My point is army should give more priority on individual soldiers gears rather than big budget equipment which are important as well. As far as Kevlar helmets not able to withstand 7.62 rounds on close range is concerned i believe armys rarely fight at a distance of 4 mts, a distance at which these helmets are penetrated. Stray bullets coming from a distance more than that can be stopped effectively along with its shock which may cause trauma by these advanced helmets.These helmets cover more area as well giving all round protection than PATKA.

 

[Chinmoy]

Yes, you are right about every army having its own tried and tested methods of fighting which are according to various situations it faces. But still it appears to me more of cost saving rather than being better that PATKA's are used. A small thing like gloves can make huge difference in a soldiers performance. Imagine a situation where a soldier suffers a cut in his palms or fingers which could have been avoided with use of gloves. I rarely see soldiers using gloves other than military exercises. My point is army should give more priority on individual soldiers gears rather than big budget equipment which are important as well. As far as Kevlar helmets not able to withstand 7.62 rounds on close range is concerned i believe armys rarely fight at a distance of 4 mts, a distance at which these helmets are penetrated. Stray bullets coming from a distance more than that can be stopped effectively along with its shock which may cause trauma by these advanced helmets.These helmets cover more area as well giving all round protection than PATKA.

I've seen some joint Indo-US exercises where IA prefer to repel down a helicopter sans gloves and pads as opposed to their US counter part. When asked the reason for that, the simple answer was, it stops our natural movement and decrease our efficiency in situations like this.
You might have seen our forces with Kevlar helmets and full body armour in CQB, but you can't expect them to be in the same attire 24/7. You can't expect them to be in the same attire when they set out on extended patroling or on combing missions.
So PATKA is much preferred then the cumbersome helmet for many in such situation. Now this cumbersome is not what I am saying. 7 out of 10 infantry man would say so if you ask them. Kevlar helmets is not good enough in stopping high velocity rifle rounds, even 5.45, from 10 mtrs or so. Have you ever seen any maker advertising their helmets against high velocity round or even against an AK?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It is best not to compare requirement of one force with another, The terrain, tactics and experience comes into picture ..

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Army in Counter insurgency prefer flexibility as well as protection, Covering everything with armor increase weight that is a drawback and cause pain and uncomfortable in long run reducing solider efficiency and distraction, Originally these helmets had been designed for the Indian Army’s Sikh troops. But as time goes by the helmet design became universal and most accepted by counter insurgency and special force involve in CT ops..

Patka provide most protection to parts of head which are directly exposed to incoming fire specifically from AK47 - 7.62m43 and G3 rifles - 7.62x51mm, Rest remain non-Armored to make it lighter and flexible for the solider involve in CT operations, Patka weights from 1-1.3kgs depending on protection level offered..

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Westerns come with their own alternative used by their special forces, The requirement are vastly different than ours, They prefer more electronics like bigger ear phones, NVG, Camera, spare batteries, Small pouches and space for patches, These do not cover complete head due to same reason as Patka`s but also not for heavy protection from AK and certainly not from rounds such as 7.62x51mm unlike Patka`s, Which is our requirement and priority ..

MKU make light helmets that provide protection from 9mm rounds,These are used by PARA SF and these helmets are quite expensive compare to Patka with inferior protection but provide all round Armour over head ..

 

[Project Dharma]

Speaking of Sikh troops, will there be a modified version of the new helmets for them? Or are they stuck with patkas? I don't beleive that Sikh regiments even wear patkas in the field mostly.

 

[republic_roi97]

Alright so I got the point that Patkas are better at keeping the soldiers safe and I fully agree to it. Thanks seniors for making things clear.

Now for whome are these MKU helmets being bought SF or regulars ??

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Ghatak units and RR platoon / squad commanders ..

Its by order to wear protective head gear when in combat ..

Now for whome are these MKU helmets being bought SF or regulars ??

I don't beleive that Sikh regiments even wear patkas in the field mostly.

 

[Project Dharma]

Its by order to wear protective head gear when in combat ..

I asked my dad and he confirmed that Sikh Li troops don't wear head gear in the field apart from turbans. Maybe RR or paramilitary troops do though.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

In counter insurgency operation one has to wear headgear, RR specifically ..

I asked my dad and he confirmed that Sikh Li troops don't wear head gear in the field apart from turbans. Maybe RR or paramilitary troops do though.

 

[Blood+]

@Kunal Biswas I have a few questions for you
1)Why can't we train more SF than foot soldiers...because they can do any mission behind enemy lines,they don't need more rations(Once rations finished SF are trained to earn food,unlike foot soldiers rely on rations)
2)I have seen many old war videos of our soldiers charging on enemy like a whole group,that will give enemy more chances of hitting our soldiers...why can't hit enemy with stealth attack
3)How much ammunition did a small group or squad carry? is that enough for fighting for long time and what if the backup didn't comes?

You seem to be deriving your 'knowledge' from Bollywood movies I'm afraid, grow up now kiddo.

 

[Blood+]

If PATKA's were that good as being stated why isn't any other army using it or testing something similar?Even army's of third world countries are equipping themselves with Kevlar helmets.IMO the only reason that PATKA has stuck with our forces is, it being cheaper alternative to costly Kevlar helmets like PASGT or OR-201.

No one gives a rat's ass about your opinion, kid.If you have some facts, then present them here or just keep shut.In any case, no kevlar helmet can provide any worthwhile protection against rifle rounds, not particularly better in a COIN op,where there is zero chance of getting hit with shrapnel but a high chance of getting hit by an M43 on your forehead, so which one would you choose given the choice - the one that can save you from the most likely threat or the one that can not??!!

 

[airtel]

@tharun , Commando training requires a lot of Money ........and all the soldiers are not physically Fit to become a Commando .

Training entire Indian Army with more than a Million soldiers to such High standards will require will require Billions of $ and we dont need so much Commandos ..........so it will be wastage of money & resources .

so rest of the soldiers get basic standard training ..............and the money is invested in other areas .

 

[Mangal]

No one gives a rat's ass about your opinion, kid.If you have some facts, then present them here or just keep shut.In any case, no kevlar helmet can provide any worthwhile protection against rifle rounds, not particularly better in a COIN op,where there is zero chance of getting hit with shrapnel but a high chance of getting hit by an M43 on your forehead, so which one would you choose given the choice - the one that can save you from the most likely threat or the one that can not??!!

Conversations can be done in polite and respectable tone.

 

[Bornubus]

RR - Qrt

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[Yodha]

RR - Qrt


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@Bornubus is that a jungle camo plate carrier? And those magazine pouches look new too. Are those standard issue or sanctioned by local commanders.

 

[Bornubus]

@Bornubus is that a jungle camo plate carrier? And those magazine pouches look new too. Are those standard issue or sanctioned by local commanders.

Yes these are latest arrival in few RR units.

Can say if the same pattern being standardized for every unit. But this is not purchased from troops own pocket like some of the fancy gear we see occasionally with troops.

 

[Yodha]

Yes these are latest arrival in few RR units.

Can say if the same pattern being standardized for every unit. But this is not purchased from troops own pocket like some of the fancy gear we see occasionally with troops.

That's great to hear. Basic body armour was missing for a long time. After all we don't need fancy gear but only basic protection.

What about SF? I noticed something about SF and SFF. Even with some of the best gear available at their disposal, still those guys mostly don't use body armour. All they carry is tactical vest for ammo and etc. Why is that?

 

[Shadow]

@Kunal Biswas Dada,these helmets looks different.Are these newly issued?

 

[hammer head]

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@Kunal Biswas Dada,these helmets looks different.Are these newly issued?

Looks like the New MKU Helmets.Good to see that finally things are transforming.

 

[republic_roi97]

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@Kunal Biswas Dada,these helmets looks different.Are these newly issued?

They look like MKU boltless 1 KG helmets, not sure though, but looks great.

 

[republic_roi97]

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@Kunal Biswas Dada,these helmets looks different.Are these newly issued?

What exercise is that ? Hand in Hand 2016?? Please post more pics if there are.