Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

mist_consecutive

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They already use B&T MP9 in this category, I think they'll repeat it. Adding another platform will just add to the logistics
Makes no sense to buy foreign when the indigenous option is available. Also, Mp9 is used in small numbers, plus no issue of logistics (9mm ammo is common for pistols also).
 

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Godzilla defense to counter paki drones:

View attachment 179001

How do you see those drones in the middle of the night?
Give him a pair of NODs and slap an IR device on that concoction

Army will do anything but go the proper way of modernization
 

Kuldeepm952

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Just like always, best of our equipment which only a few units have is seen in exercises.
New camo seems to work fine, helmet covers should have the same camo cover but here they are not, IA in its wisdom ordered ACH helmets without nvg mount. And we use that 1974 model juggad mounted thingy for NVGs. Adoption of balacava not sure if it's a new IA policy. If they are even able to standardise this plus a few additions and improvements across the infantry, that would be the biggest achievement of IA.

For reference almost all of our infantry looks like this currently
1668788065339.png
 
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Aditya Ballal

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AoN & Requirements of Ballistic Helmet with modular Armour Attachments for the Indian Army (15,000 no.s)
Basic overview of the requirements:


BOLT-FREE DESIGN.
Protection against 9x19 mm (7.62x39 mm Hard Steel Core (HSC), when used with the Enhanced Protection Modular Attachment).
CLOTH COVER- Indian Army Combat Uniform Digital pattern with Desert Tan (also must be flame and water retardant).
ACCESSORIES- Shroud & Tactical Side-Rails.
 

NotASussyBoi

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AoN & Requirements of Ballistic Helmet with modular Armour Attachments for the Indian Army (15,000 no.s)
Basic overview of the requirements:


BOLT-FREE DESIGN.
Protection against 9x19 mm (7.62x39 mm Hard Steel Core (HSC), when used with the Enhanced Protection Modular Attachment).
CLOTH COVER- Indian Army Combat Uniform Digital pattern with Desert Tan (also must be flame and water retardant).
ACCESSORIES- Shroud & Tactical Side-Rails.
7.62x39mm resistant seems like its for RR?but its too small of a procurement for all frontliners
 

Automatic Kalashnikov

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Arjun Mk1A

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It's only for CI/CT ops. Not for Infantry, army can't think outside of anti terror duties. Thanks to our 50+ yrs of peace, most of our top brass are the product of CT ops only.


Sad reality

What should be our Ideal caliber we need to use? Yes, due to constant CT ops our thinking tends to go there.
 

WolfPack86

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DAC ISSUES AON TO ACQUIRE 5,000 9 X 19MM MACHINE PISTOLS
Defence Acquisition Council has accorded the Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) for the procurement of 5,000 9x19 Machine Pistol under Buy (Indian) category through Fast Track Procurement route.


The following are the key requirement for the procurement:

1. Calibre: 9 x 19mm.

2. Ammunition: In Service 9 x 19mm ammunition to be used. Compatibility to be established by DGQA.

3. Effective Range: Not less than 100 metres.

4. Mechanism / Mode of Firing: Single shot and automatic.

5. Accuracy:

(a) Single Shot Mode: When the weapon is fired from a fixed mount at 50m range, eight hits out of 10 rounds fired should be in a group size of 15 cm x 15 cm.
(b) Automatic Mode: When a full magazine is fired in short bursts of two to three rounds from the weapon fitted on fixed mount at range of 50m, not less than 18 hits out of 30 rounds fired should be within a group size of 30cm x 30cm.
6. Picatinny Rails: MIL-STD 1913 compliant picatinny rail at 12 o’clock position.

7. Reliability: In firing of 1,200 rounds, it should not suffer from more than three β€˜Class-I’ or β€˜Class-II’ stoppages and No β€˜Class-III’ stoppages. The test is to be carried out as per TOP 3-2-045 specifications. Stoppages are classified as under :

a) Class I Stoppage: Can be removed by the firer within 10 seconds without the use of any tools, equipment or spares by immediate action procedures.
(b) Class II Stoppage: Can be removed by firer in 10 seconds to10 minutes with tools, equipment or spares issued with the weapon.
(c) Class III Stoppage: Takes more time than 10 minutes or special tools/ spares to rectify defects and to resume firing by the firer.

8. Weight: Not more than 2.5 kgs (without Magazine).

9. Overall Length:

(a) In Extended Condition. Not more than 650 mm.
(b) In Folded/ Retractable Butt. Not more than 500 mm.
10. Magazine Capacity: Not less than 30 rounds.

11. Rate of Fire: Not less than 600 rounds per minute.

12. Operating Temperature: The Machine Pistol should be able to operate between temperature ranges from -200 C to +450 C without degradation in performance.

13. Environmental and Durability Standards: Should meet the standards of relevant portions of JSG 0131:2021 as specified by User during evaluation.

14. Service Life: 10 years or 10,000 fired rounds whichever is earlier.

15. Appearance and Finish: The weapon should be black in colour with matt finish/non reflective surface.

16. Accessories:

16. Accessories:

(a) Open sight to facilitate engagement up to 100m.
(b) Three point sling.
(c) Five Magazines.
(d) Carrying Holster.
(e) Cleaning tools
 

SwordOfDarkness

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DAC ISSUES AON TO ACQUIRE 5,000 9 X 19MM MACHINE PISTOLS
Defence Acquisition Council has accorded the Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) for the procurement of 5,000 9x19 Machine Pistol under Buy (Indian) category through Fast Track Procurement route.


The following are the key requirement for the procurement:

1. Calibre: 9 x 19mm.

2. Ammunition: In Service 9 x 19mm ammunition to be used. Compatibility to be established by DGQA.

3. Effective Range: Not less than 100 metres.

4. Mechanism / Mode of Firing: Single shot and automatic.

5. Accuracy:



6. Picatinny Rails: MIL-STD 1913 compliant picatinny rail at 12 o’clock position.

7. Reliability: In firing of 1,200 rounds, it should not suffer from more than three β€˜Class-I’ or β€˜Class-II’ stoppages and No β€˜Class-III’ stoppages. The test is to be carried out as per TOP 3-2-045 specifications. Stoppages are classified as under :

a) Class I Stoppage: Can be removed by the firer within 10 seconds without the use of any tools, equipment or spares by immediate action procedures.
(b) Class II Stoppage: Can be removed by firer in 10 seconds to10 minutes with tools, equipment or spares issued with the weapon.
(c) Class III Stoppage: Takes more time than 10 minutes or special tools/ spares to rectify defects and to resume firing by the firer.

8. Weight: Not more than 2.5 kgs (without Magazine).

9. Overall Length:



10. Magazine Capacity: Not less than 30 rounds.

11. Rate of Fire: Not less than 600 rounds per minute.

12. Operating Temperature: The Machine Pistol should be able to operate between temperature ranges from -200 C to +450 C without degradation in performance.

13. Environmental and Durability Standards: Should meet the standards of relevant portions of JSG 0131:2021 as specified by User during evaluation.

14. Service Life: 10 years or 10,000 fired rounds whichever is earlier.

15. Appearance and Finish: The weapon should be black in colour with matt finish/non reflective surface.

16. Accessories:

16. Accessories:


Holup a sec, I can understand 450C but why -200C? IA will operate in liquid nitrogen sea or what?
 

Spadex

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Just like always, best of our equipment which only a few units have is seen in exercises.
New camo seems to work fine, helmet covers should have the same camo cover but here they are not, IA in its wisdom ordered ACH helmets without nvg mount. And we use that 1974 model juggad mounted thingy for NVGs. Adoption of balacava not sure if it's a new IA policy. If they are even able to standardise this plus a few additions and improvements across the infantry, that would be the biggest achievement of IA.

For reference almost all of our infantry looks like this currentlyView attachment 182743
This is bad real bad.
Screenshot_2022-11-20-09-40-46-27_0b2fce7a16bf2b728d6ffa28c8d60efb.png
the point man is going to get deaf and blind and dead.

The rifle of 2nd man should be resting on biceps not on shoulder, with eyes above the sight and hips forward...



Screenshot_2022-11-20-09-49-52-18_0b2fce7a16bf2b728d6ffa28c8d60efb.png


I'm no hand to hand combat expert, but no one in his right mind should kick someone who have a hand gun with him, you are just increase the distance between you and the pistol hence cutting your chance to survive.



Hope this is just for show their bollywood addiction and not a real training


By their kit it looks like they are going for a airsoft match
 

Spadex

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What should be our Ideal caliber we need to use? Yes, due to constant CT ops our thinking tends to go there.
Sir 5.56 vs Soviet 7.62

5.56 have better ballistics, have better accuracy, low recoil, have better long range effect, can be used for CQB too as Recoil is low + all the advantage of AR-15 plateform
but a low stoping power


7.62 *39

Is effective to 250-300 meters, have a huge drop, not very accurate for competitive shooting but for real world it' accuracy is reasonable effective. Ofcourse reasonable Recoil + the AK plateform is not that modular.

But biggest pro of an AK is its easy simple no nonsense, minimum movement mechanism & cheap to produce


+++++ The troops love and rely on AK over 5.56 simply bez they never experienced what a premium AR-15 Feels and shoot like, the best they had was insas
 

NotASussyBoi

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This is bad real bad.View attachment 183039the point man is going to get deaf and blind and dead.

The rifle of 2nd man should be resting on biceps not on shoulder, with eyes above the sight and hips forward...



View attachment 183040

I'm no hand to hand combat expert, but no one in his right mind should kick someone who have a hand gun with him, you are just increase the distance between you and the pistol hence cutting your chance to survive.



Hope this is just for show their bollywood addiction and not a real training


By their kit it looks like they are going for a airsoft match
larpers have better gear, in all honesty judhing by the pr that is shown to us from the services, its just for entertainment
 

Tshering22

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It's only for CI/CT ops. Not for Infantry, army can't think outside of anti terror duties. Thanks to our 50+ yrs of peace, most of our top brass are the product of CT ops only.


Sad reality
Looks like we need a border conflict with the PLA in order to kickstart militaristic thinking in the top brass. There is a lot of stuff in that clip that does not make sense, even to an amateur like me. Kicking off someone who has a gun in hand to give them the range advantage? The mismatched gear and camouflage? And clearly, this is only the 'top' of the equipment that we have.

Mass ground troops are pretty much like this:

1668994714576.png
1668994811395.png
 
Last edited:

Kuldeepm952

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This is bad real bad.View attachment 183039the point man is going to get deaf and blind and dead.

The rifle of 2nd man should be resting on biceps not on shoulder, with eyes above the sight and hips forward...



View attachment 183040

I'm no hand to hand combat expert, but no one in his right mind should kick someone who have a hand gun with him, you are just increase the distance between you and the pistol hence cutting your chance to survive.



Hope this is just for show their bollywood addiction and not a real training


By their kit it looks like they are going for a airsoft match
What do you expect, really. There are no specialised instructors in IA, I don't think they even send even 1% of them to friendly foreign countries for training and learn from others. Thats what happens when you try to imitate others but are left out on details.
Small unit tactics are almost non existent in IA doctrine. It's like saying that the poor jawan doesn't matter much, we can always get more chaps out of a billion plus pop. Saala 20 saal se jyada ho gye Kashmir m aur ab jaake ye thoda bhot dyan de rhe h urban combat tactics m, only for RR though.

Just observe the various large exercise video snippets we have been seeing, if you see the movement of tanks and BMPs highly resemble that in the late Soviet exercises. Even the stupid dismounting of Infantry and walking side by side that too at ridiculously small distance in front of enemy positions. I am sure Pak and China have no atgms, RPGs and loitering munitions like really, world has changed their tactics several times over and we are still stuck in 80s.

Agree or not, I think we are going to lose a lot of men in front of PLA which seems to evolve without a stop, trying and adoption strategies from wherever it can.

Over a period of time, the reality I see if particularly IA is grim dark going forward, not like it was particularly better before, maybe in 90s.
 

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