Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

NotASussyBoi

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According to the Alpha Defence Guy the comms and all are part of it tho not visible here, you guys are unnecessarily black-pilled for some reason, this is practical and in our budget except the BPJ everything is fine to me, and this could be implemented faster and act as a good base then any new tech could be added over it. Similar stuff we saw in Kashmir and LOC.
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Bayonets- View attachment 168100
to think of it we could add more sub systems like that armasen gps gizmos,but yeah the bpj is the most problematic here we could put an interceptor vest and it'll look more futuristic,we might have to buy armasen vest and put smpp plates in it for front liners
 

AUSTERLITZ

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AK203 is being severely underestimated by many people here.AK103 is still one of the best general purpose assault weapons out there.AK12 was a failure in ukrainewith several issues,russian troops prefering ak103.AK103 also won the paki rifle competition.This is a better AK103.Unless you have a 6.8 mm new gen rifle with 30,000 dollar optics mandatory on each rifle and extremely costly ammo - the ak series is absolutely a fine rifle and will remain an excellent choice.Particularly given india's different climactic regions.SIGs alone have the risk of being overwhelmed by saturation fire from chinese assault rifles and are also worthless in CQB and mechanized infantry roles.So assault rifles are going nowhere.The tacticool stuff is unaffordable for huge1.2 million army and introducing all new ammo will break army's bank.Also none of our enemies - chinese and pakis have any 6.8 mm new gen wunderwaffe coming up,so there is no problem.Wunderwaffe new gen 6.8 mm will be restricted to special forces.
 

rkhanna

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AK203 is being severely underestimated by many people here.AK103 is still one of the best general purpose assault weapons out there.AK12 was a failure in ukrainewith several issues,russian troops prefering ak103.AK103 also won the paki rifle competition.This is a better AK103.Unless you have a 6.8 mm new gen rifle with 30,000 dollar optics mandatory on each rifle and extremely costly ammo - the ak series is absolutely a fine rifle and will remain an excellent choice.Particularly given india's different climactic regions.SIGs alone have the risk of being overwhelmed by saturation fire from chinese assault rifles and are also worthless in CQB and mechanized infantry roles.So assault rifles are going nowhere.The tacticool stuff is unaffordable for huge1.2 million army and introducing all new ammo will break army's bank.Also none of our enemies - chinese and pakis have any 6.8 mm new gen wunderwaffe coming up,so there is no problem.Wunderwaffe new gen 6.8 mm will be restricted to special forces.
What is the incremental benefit of the AK203 over the AK derivatives already produced locally?
 

Killbot

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Much better metallurgy and quality for russian AKs.Standardization.
Lol.
Ok let's assume that's true (which it isn't).

What about the multitude of other problems I.e. the ammo difference (7.62 NATO in SIG vs 7.62 Soviet in 203)? How are you going to reconcile that?

Also the price. Paying $1100 for a mass produced AK? Someone needs to be hanged for that. Money is much better spent on optics and other accessories on a *much* less expensive rifle.

And the fact that a soldier needs to be trained on 2 different weapon systems. Would you rather have soldiers who are proficient on one platform, especially with agnipath (short training and service cycle) or waste resources on drilling 2 completely different ones into recruits? They will be mediocre at everything. Because they cannot master either platform and training on 2 different weapons would take time, energy and resources away from training other skills.

But let's say the all of the above works out somehow (which it won't). We are paying ungodly amounts of money to import tech that we already possess. The fucking North Koreans have this tech. MoD thinks taxpayers are chutiyas. And rightly so.

My solution would be to throw this whole AK idea in the dustbin. Equip the entire infantry with an AR-10 rifle like sig 716 (local copy preferably) and equip the rest of the army with a 5.56 AR-15 style rifle. Also locally produced. And same AR-15 CQB carbine for whoever needs it. With the right kind of ammo, and right barrel length and stuff, it should function much better than the AK ever could. And economy of scale means we won't get ripped off.

There you go. money, logistics and traning problem solved. It's that fucking simple.
 

vampyrbladez

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Lol.
Ok let's assume that's true (which it isn't).

What about the multitude of other problems I.e. the ammo difference (7.62 NATO in SIG vs 7.62 Soviet in 203)? How are you going to reconcile that?

Also the price. Paying $1100 for a mass produced AK? Someone needs to be hanged for that. Money is much better spent on optics and other accessories on a *much* less expensive rifle.

And the fact that a soldier needs to be trained on 2 different weapon systems. Would you rather have soldiers who are proficient on one platform, especially with agnipath (short training and service cycle) or waste resources on drilling 2 completely different ones into recruits? They will be mediocre at everything. Because they cannot master either platform and training on 2 different weapons would take time, energy and resources away from training other skills.

But let's say the all of the above works out somehow (which it won't). We are paying ungodly amounts of money to import tech that we already possess. The fucking North Koreans have this tech. MoD thinks taxpayers are chutiyas. And rightly so.

My solution would be to throw this whole AK idea in the dustbin. Equip the entire infantry with an AR-10 rifle like sig 716 (local copy preferably) and equip the rest of the army with a 5.56 AR-15 style rifle. Also locally produced. And same AR-15 CQB carbine for whoever needs it. With the right kind of ammo, and right barrel length and stuff, it should function much better than the AK ever could. And economy of scale means we won't get ripped off.

There you go. money, logistics and traning problem solved. It's that fucking simple.
It's not that simple.

AR designs fail in cold weather which is where we will fighting against Pakistanis and Chinese along the Himalayas.

https://soldiersystems.net/2018/07/16/general-staff-requirement-gsr-new-assault-rifle/

AKs are designed for cold weather with features like the rock in magazine loading, large selector lever and loose tolerances. The AKs 7.62x39 mm round will allow for greater penetration upto 300 m as compared to a 5.56x45 mm which is accurate upto 500 m.

To make up for long distances, we got the Sig 716i with the 7.62x51 mm round which is accurate upto 800 m and has superior penetration against LVL III+/IV body armor.

However even the Sig 716i will not be able to perform reliably in extreme cold weather since it is an AR 10 derivative.

With 140,000 Sig 716i and 14,679 Negev LMG plus some AK 203 thrown in you can equip the entire Northern Command.

For our mechanised units, a folding AK 203 is sufficient since the Ukraine War has shown that AFV/APCs when dismounting troops can only allow for engagements upto 200-300 m effectively.

I agree we can easily get the TAR rifle to perform the same job as the AK 203 but the Russians would get upset at the Americans and Israelis winning the battle rifle and LMG contracts respectively.

The way I see it, 5.56x45 mm will now be solely limited to SOF or SOF capable units with guns like the Tavor series, older M4A1s, Negev 5 LMGs, older Galil SAR and possibly in the near future some AR derivatives from PLR Systems and SSS.
 

abingdonboy

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AK203 is being severely underestimated by many people here.AK103 is still one of the best general purpose assault weapons out there.AK12 was a failure in ukrainewith several issues,russian troops prefering ak103.AK103 also won the paki rifle competition.This is a better AK103.Unless you have a 6.8 mm new gen rifle with 30,000 dollar optics mandatory on each rifle and extremely costly ammo - the ak series is absolutely a fine rifle and will remain an excellent choice.Particularly given india's different climactic regions.SIGs alone have the risk of being overwhelmed by saturation fire from chinese assault rifles and are also worthless in CQB and mechanized infantry roles.So assault rifles are going nowhere.The tacticool stuff is unaffordable for huge1.2 million army and introducing all new ammo will break army's bank.Also none of our enemies - chinese and pakis have any 6.8 mm new gen wunderwaffe coming up,so there is no problem.Wunderwaffe new gen 6.8 mm will be restricted to special forces.
No idea what you are going on about. What Western nation uses 7.62*39 for their battle rifle? It’s a spray and pray round at most used in COIN/CT (GIGN adopted it after Bataclan). Even the Russians don’t use it for their own frontline guys

the ballistics of the 7.62*39 round are a joke beyond a few hundred metres. Let’s be scientific about This and not believe the IA’s lies and BS

+ let’s not forget they are paying $1100 PER RIFLE for this junk. That kind of money could buy top of the range ARs, even the SIG-716 cost the IA less per unit.
 

rkhanna

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What we really wanted probably was the factory and the tooling from russland. MoD wants OFB to up their quality control (eventually).
Manufacturing could have been passed on pvt manufacturing we have a hundred companies that make every small arm under the planet. The design from OFB could have easily been passed on to them.. the tooling and machinery is commoditised now.
 

Corvus Splendens

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Manufacturing could have been passed on pvt manufacturing we have a hundred companies that make every small arm under the planet. The design from OFB could have easily been passed on to them.. the tooling and machinery is commoditised now.
Same reason why Tata and Ashok Leyland sent truck kits to VFJ to be assembled and rebadged...
 

AUSTERLITZ

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No idea what you are going on about. What Western nation uses 7.62*39 for their battle rifle? It’s a spray and pray round at most used in COIN/CT (GIGN adopted it after Bataclan). Even the Russians don’t use it for their own frontline guys

the ballistics of the 7.62*39 round are a joke beyond a few hundred metres. Let’s be scientific about This and not believe the IA’s lies and BS

+ let’s not forget they are paying $1100 PER RIFLE for this junk. That kind of money could buy top of the range ARs, even the SIG-716 cost the IA less per unit.
Show me where infantry on infantry engagement happens beyond 200-300 yrds(at which distances AK is as good or even better than AR) except in mountains for which we have SIG.Even then for mountaintop assaults you will need AKs.
Beyond 200-300 metres you need magnifier optics for proper shots.Army doesnt have funds to equip whole infantry with magnifier optics.If you go new gen 6.8 not only you have to set up whole new ammo chain,and the 6.8mm ammo is way more costly one on one as well..plus you have new gen 30,000 $ optic mandatory.Its not possible beyond special forces.
Also NATO 5.56 doesnt have penetrating power beyond 300 metres to penetrate chinese body armour ,so accuracy is worthless.Rise of body armour is why USA ditched 5.56.Our enemies dont have and wont have 6.8 ,so AK is perfectly fine for us.
The 1100 $ price is including setting up plant and transfer of knowledge.And again AK is not a 'junk' rifle.A properly made AK is a deadly rifle for the general infantryman.It is still the most trusted weapon by IA infantry.AR fanboys do a lot of precision firing on the range and think when the bullets and shells are flying you will have all the luxury to set up ,take careful aim and do all the fancy grips.Watch the footage from ukraine or from LOC.Its mostly quick aim and spray,then cover.Distances are hardly above 300 mtrs.
 

Marliii

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Show me where infantry on infantry engagement happens beyond 200-300 yrds(at which distances AK is as good or even better than AR) except in mountains for which we have SIG.Even then for mountaintop assaults you will need AKs.
Beyond 200-300 metres you need magnifier optics for proper shots.Army doesnt have funds to equip whole infantry with magnifier optics.If you go new gen 6.8 not only you have to set up whole new ammo chain,and the 6.8mm ammo is way more costly one on one as well..plus you have new gen 30,000 $ optic mandatory.Its not possible beyond special forces.
Also NATO 5.56 doesnt have penetrating power beyond 300 metres to penetrate chinese body armour ,so accuracy is worthless.Rise of body armour is why USA ditched 5.56.Our enemies dont have and wont have 6.8 ,so AK is perfectly fine for us.
The 1100 $ price is including setting up plant and transfer of knowledge.And again AK is not a 'junk' rifle.A properly made AK is a deadly rifle for the general infantryman.It is still the most trusted weapon by IA infantry.AR fanboys do a lot of precision firing on the range and think when the bullets and shells are flying you will have all the luxury to set up ,take careful aim and do all the fancy grips.Watch the footage from ukraine or from LOC.Its mostly quick aim and spray,then cover.Distances are hardly above 300 mtrs.
The rise of body Armor effects 7.62x39 too and in many cases much more than 5.56
 

WolfPack86

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AK-203 ASSAULT RIFLE KIT TO BE MANUFACTURED IN AMETHI, HANDED OVER TO INDIAN ARMY
Amethi:
Under the leadership of PM Narendra Modi, India is continuously emerging as a self-reliant nation. The AK-203 assault rifles manufactured in Amethi, Uttar Pradesh, is a shining example of this. Amethi is the same district whose political identity was once from the Gandhi family, but now the MP there is Smriti Irani and during this time Amethi has got a new identity. Rajiv Gandhi was MP from the Amethi seat for 10 years, Sonia Gandhi for 5 years and then Rahul Gandhi for 15 years, but there was no significant change in the condition of the area. Today, AK-203 rifles are being made with the technical help of Russia in Amethi.

AK 203 assault rifle

On Tuesday, August 16, the Indian Army also received its first consignment. Union Defence Minister Rajnath Singh has handed over the first batch to the Army. These rifles are being developed in collaboration with the Russian government under the 'Make in India' initiative of the central government.

During the ceremony today, Army's F-INSAS soldier gave a briefing to Raksha Mantri on his new weapon systems and aids including the AK-203 assault rifle. The complete gear of the F-INSAS system includes an AK-203 assault rifle. AK-203 is a Russian-origin gas-operated, magazine-fed, select fire assault rifle with a range of 300 metre. The F-INSAS is planned to be manufactured in Amethi, Uttar Pradesh, in a joint venture between Indian and Russian entities.

In the year 2019, PM Narendra Modi announced that the Amethi district of UP will be identified with AK-203 rifles. However, today, after three years, PM Modi's words have come true. The country's brave soldiers will now have an AK-203 assault rifle in their hands.

AK-203 assault rifle is counted among the best rifles in the world. It will be manufactured at the Ordnance Factory located in the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Korwa campus in Amethi. At present, the production of 5 lakh rifles has got the green signal. The construction work is under progress at a rapid pace.

 

BlackViking

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No soldier is interested in the cocking mechanism the SIG introduced. That's why your avg soldier still wants a AK if he gets an option. Some even goes onto say that had the INSAS had better quality and a bigger round they would have been happy.
Problem is our officers and soldiers don't want to change. I heard someone saying how one has to move the rifle away of the target to cock the Sig while that was not the case with AK/INSAS.
 

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