Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[vampyrbladez]

India to ink 'repeat order' deal for 73,000 SiG 716 rifles from the US

In February 2019, 72,400 SiG 716 rifles of 7.62 x 51mm calibre were contracted from SIG Sauer Inc, USA, under government's 'Buy (Global) category', through fast track procedure.

theprint.in

Acc to this Army has equipped 2 companies out of 4 in all infantry battalions with SIG 716.Thats roughly 200 Sigs per battalion for 340 infantry battalions(excluding paras,RR,Arifles and mechanized infantry).
340x 200 =68,000
Army procured 66,000 out of first batch so just short.
Another 73,000 will cover the other 2 companies plus the small shortfall.

So its official,all our 340 infantry battalions will have SIG716 and Negev Combo going forward.
Pros-
-Will outperform and outrange both chinese and pakistani rifles significantly in mountains and flat terrain.We will win long range engagements easily over 5.8 qbz and ak-56.
-Common round with our new LMG and likely DMR as well.
-Future proof against enemy body armour.(Big plus)
-Fits with IA marksmanship tradition rather than spray and pray style.

Cons-
-We risk being outgunned and swamped in close quarter engagements by enemy assault rifles.
-Major logistics issue where half the battalion(riflemen) will have 7.62x51 and rest will have different calibre.
-The big question is can army sustain 150,000 battle rifles with magnifying scopes(even low mag) permanently.Without scopes this is pointless as you wont use your range advantage.
-Is a bad rifle for urban combat(which IA doesnt expect in mountains to be fair),but also for mountaintop assaults.
-Ammo carrying capacity is 66% of other options.
-Are reliability issues solved?Really or being hushed under the carpet?

Sigh .....I'll post this again.


7.62x39 mm = .300 Blackout, perfect for CQB and upto 300 m.

The arrangement I have made below is based on the least amount of effort Indian Army would need to make to have a modern fighting unit capable of CQB as well as line engagement over 500-600 m away.


Squad Leader
1 x (AK 203) (7.62x39 mm)
1 x (Browning Hi Power) (9x19 mm)

Maneuver Element 1 :

Rifleman
1 x AK 203 (7.62x39 mm) (UBGL)

Rifleman
2 x Sig 716i (7.62x51 mm)

Maneuver Element 2 :

Rifleman
1 x AK 203 (7.62x39 mm) (UBGL)

Rifleman
2 x Sig 716i (7.62x51 mm) (1 DMR Config)
1 x Browning Hi Power (9x19 mm) (2IC)

Fire Support :

LMG Gunner
1 x Negev NG7 LMG/SAW (7.62x51 mm)

Rifleman / Missileer
1 x Carl Gustav RCL (84 mm)
1 x AK 203 (7.62x39 mm)

Rifleman/ Ammunition Carrier
1 x Sig 716i (7.62x51 mm)

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Sigh .....I'll post this again.


7.62x39 mm = .300 Blackout, perfect for CQB and upto 300 m.

The arrangement I have made below is based on the least amount of effort Indian Army would need to make to have a modern fighting unit capable of CQB as well as line engagement over 500-600 m away.


Squad Leader
1 x (AK 203) (7.62x39 mm)
1 x (Browning Hi Power) (9x19 mm)

Maneuver Element 1 :

Rifleman
1 x AK 203 (7.62x39 mm) (UBGL)

Rifleman
2 x Sig 716i (7.62x51 mm)

Maneuver Element 2 :

Rifleman
1 x AK 203 (7.62x39 mm) (UBGL)

Rifleman
2 x Sig 716i (7.62x51 mm) (1 DMR Config)
1 x Browning Hi Power (9x19 mm) (2IC)

Fire Support :

LMG Gunner
1 x Negev NG7 LMG/SAW (7.62x51 mm)

Rifleman / Missileer
1 x Carl Gustav RCL (84 mm)
1 x AK 203 (7.62x39 mm)

Rifleman/ Ammunition Carrier
1 x Sig 716i (7.62x51 mm)

This is unacceptable logistically.All riflemen will have 1 weapon .

 

[NotASussyBoi]

Sigh .....I'll post this again.


7.62x39 mm = .300 Blackout, perfect for CQB and upto 300 m.

The arrangement I have made below is based on the least amount of effort Indian Army would need to make to have a modern fighting unit capable of CQB as well as line engagement over 500-600 m away.


Squad Leader
1 x (AK 203) (7.62x39 mm)
1 x (Browning Hi Power) (9x19 mm)

Maneuver Element 1 :

Rifleman
1 x AK 203 (7.62x39 mm) (UBGL)

Rifleman
2 x Sig 716i (7.62x51 mm)

Maneuver Element 2 :

Rifleman
1 x AK 203 (7.62x39 mm) (UBGL)

Rifleman
2 x Sig 716i (7.62x51 mm) (1 DMR Config)
1 x Browning Hi Power (9x19 mm) (2IC)

Fire Support :

LMG Gunner
1 x Negev NG7 LMG/SAW (7.62x51 mm)

Rifleman / Missileer
1 x Carl Gustav RCL (84 mm)
1 x AK 203 (7.62x39 mm)

Rifleman/ Ammunition Carrier
1 x Sig 716i (7.62x51 mm)

Ngl might have better if we combined the rifles into one singular unit than a 3 unit clusterfluck

 

[vampyrbladez]

Ngl might have better if we combined the rifles into one singular unit than a 3 unit clusterfluck

Thats not how fire teams work. This is the US Army squad level organization.

 

[Love Charger]

Army has made a pig breakfast, 1 assault rifle , 1 machine gun type , 1 marks man rifle.
Thats how it works

 

[vampyrbladez]

This is unacceptable logistically.All riflemen will have 1 weapon .

Goodluck using high recoil 7.62x51 mm in CQB. There's a reason US military dropped the SCAR-H and went back to M4s.

BTW it's already happening in the field.

AKMs (later AK 203s) alongside Sig 716i.

 

[NotASussyBoi]

Thats not how fire teams work. This is the US Army squad level organization.

yeap but at the minimum,using seperate rifles like sig 716,ak 203 sounds a bit problematic no?but i absolutely agree though with mgs and dmrs

 

[India Super Power]

Hey folks do we see any light on sss defence ar-15 carbines as we have a huge requirement
My personal thinking is can't we replace few very old tavors with those imean which 15-20 years old brought in 2000s?
As we have seen that they have displayed they guns to forces is there a possibility that armed force conducting trials

 

[Fire and groove]

Goodluck using high recoil 7.62x51 mm in CQB. There's a reason US military dropped the SCAR-H and went back to M4s.

BTW it's already happening in the field.

AKMs (later AK 203s) alongside Sig 716i.

CQB isn't the be all end all especially considering our terrain, it's more plausible in our case to have a battle rifle and destroy from a distance while leaving CQB as a situational last resort where it becomes necessary to manuever into the enemy. Infantry engagements first and foremost are about positioning within the suitable engagement distance.

 

[arkos]

CQB isn't the be all end all especially considering our terrain, it's more plausible in our case to have a battle rifle and destroy from a distance while leaving CQB as a situational last resort where it becomes necessary to manuever into the enemy. Infantry engagements first and foremost are about positioning within the suitable engagement distance.

If you have units supported by IFVs, its better to be armed with AK-203s since you are gonna have sufficient firepower for any long range engagements. Otherwise, you can provide mix of both battle and assault rifles to the units for operations.

 

[Fire and groove]

If you have units supported by IFVs, its better to be armed with AK-203s since you are gonna have sufficient firepower for any long range engagements. Otherwise, you can provide mix of both battle and assault rifles to the units for operations.

AFVs aren't going to be all too common in the mountains.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Where is IA looking for CQB (RR), apart from Kashmir and NE (AR)?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Goodluck using high recoil 7.62x51 mm in CQB. There's a reason US military dropped the SCAR-H and went back to M4s.

BTW it's already happening in the field.

AKMs (later AK 203s) alongside Sig 716i.

This is because 2 companies worth of sigs have been procured per battalion.Other 2 companies ordered soon.I agree with the CQB argument,but solution is difficult.7.62X39 is planned to be used by RR and mechanized.But 7.62x39 is not a good round against chinese body armour in mountains.The 7.62x51 is armour proof at least and given scopes will take shots at double the distance.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

If you have units supported by IFVs, its better to be armed with AK-203s since you are gonna have sufficient firepower for any long range engagements. Otherwise, you can provide mix of both battle and assault rifles to the units for operations.

Mechanized and RR will not have SIGs but ak-203.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

The worst thing we can do is get a 5.56mm carbine in infantry regiments.Carbine has to be 7.62x39 like in russian army.Otherwise we face potentially 3 types of ammo per battalion.At least with 7.62x39 carbine mechanized infantry will have 1 type of ammo throughout.5.56 needs to be phased out or given to tank crews etc only.

 

[vampyrbladez]

CQB isn't the be all end all especially considering our terrain, it's more plausible in our case to have a battle rifle and destroy from a distance while leaving CQB as a situational last resort where it becomes necessary to manuever into the enemy. Infantry engagements first and foremost are about positioning within the suitable engagement distance.

You will inevitably close in on the enemy. Therefore it doesn't hurt to have some AKs or a similar weapon in the section.

Additionally you need UBGLs which Sig 716i or any other free floating rifle so far has yet to deploy.

 

[vampyrbladez]

This is because 2 companies worth of sigs have been procured per battalion.Other 2 companies ordered soon.I agree with the CQB argument,but solution is difficult.7.62X39 is planned to be used by RR and mechanized.But 7.62x39 is not a good round against chinese body armour in mountains.The 7.62x51 is armour proof at least and given scopes will take shots at double the distance.

When clearing bunkers and FIBUA, your engagement distance will be less than 300m. Maybe even 50-100m.

You will be able to put multiple rounds on target, enough to shred any BPJ.

7.62x51mm 's recoil ensures that unless you have a soldier who has been extensively drilled on the round and made to compensate for the recoil, it doesn't make for a very good CQB weapon, even with a 16'' barrel.

 

[Love Charger]

I suggest few things, you may suggest more.
1) lets zero down on two cartridges for teh most of army
Aka 7.62 39 and 7.62 51, have two rifles for the common soldiers basically sig and ak 203 .
Completely replace all 5.56 weapons from service

2) for dmr purpose, army should replace dragunov with SIG 716 or any other equivalent rifle of same calibre as dragunov fires a 7 62 54 mm round.

3 ) for LMG , orders of negev ng 7 is a good news.
As ammo will be common between sig, and lmg.
And remove all sorts of insas lmg and PKt etc from service

4) mmg is sorted out , its fn mag any way.

5) now comes the special forces , aka para sf don't count ghatak and parachute regiment here , for me they come under normal infantry .
For para sf , we should replace their tavors with SIG spear , 6.8 mm rounds.
They are unique. ,so they should have unique weapons

 

[NotASussyBoi]

I suggest few things, you may suggest more.
1) lets zero down on two cartridges for teh most of army
Aka 7.62 39 and 7.62 51, have two rifles for the common soldiers basically sig and ak 203 .
Completely replace all 5.56 weapons from service

2) for dmr purpose, army should replace dragunov with SIG 716 or any other equivalent rifle of same calibre as dragunov fires a 7 62 54 mm round.

3 ) for LMG , orders of negev ng 7 is a good news.
As ammo will be common between sig, and lmg.

4) mmg is sorted out , its fn mag any way.

5) now comes the special forces , aka para sf don't count ghatak and parachute regiment here , for me they come under normal infantry .
For para sf , we should replace their tavors with SIG spear , 6.8 mm rounds.
They are unique. ,so they should have unique weapons

sig spear is a tad expensive don't you think,but if there's a discount tag,i'll fully support it

 

[Love Charger]

sig spear is a tad expensive don't you think,but if there's a discount tag,i'll fully support it

Now more than guns, amry need to streamline the ammo .
Para sf deserve best, I didn't suggest scar because well its a 7m62 51 mm rifle, and para sf don't need it .
6.8 sig spear will be best, Pehle sig mcx acha lagta tha , ab sig spear acha lagta hai vro