Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

AUSTERLITZ

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Some things people here should keep in mind-

1.The american next generation infantry weapons come with an astronomical price range.This combined with their optics especially their next gen thermal optics are simply not affordable for us or any big army.Neither the chinese nor the pakistanis will have them,so no problem for us here.Scopes are very costly and need to be replaced in less than 10 years.

2.If we ever get these gucci weapons it will be exclusive for special forces units.We are getting squad recon drones and loitering munitions,thats good.

3.No matter how well you equip your infantry,vast majority of losses will come from artillery(and airpower).The biggest damage for the infantry is always done by the mortars and light machine guns.What i want to see most is 2 x scoped negev LMGs per squad of 10 instead of 1 LMG per unit.That will increase our squad firepower exponentially without unsustainable costs.

4.Battle rifles require scopes -otherwise wasted.Now we have 2 problems -a)Scopes very costly and require relatively quick replacement on 400 infantry battalions.b)Battle rifles are not the best in CQB,urban combat or mechanized assault.For assault in mountains when taking strongpoints you still need to spray lead in a short duration.In jungles scopes also useless.

Given these constraints i think AK-203 is a solid rational choice.Excellent ,reliable rifle and accurate as well(unlike what people say).We are not going to face american army- we make our choice keeping in mind our enemy.Pakis wanted AK-103 but didn't have money,their existing old g-3s and ak-56s will be outmatched by SIG and ak-203 combo.Chinese qbz-95 is a relatively shitty 5.8mm assault bullpup meant for mechanized wave style attacks using conscript spray and pray.Their new QBZ-191 is also an assault rifle,rather than battle rifle with 5.8mm round.Ak-203 will match or exceed it in assault,and SIG will outrange it.No need to panic.
Remember china is a mechanized infantry army.It is crucial that you have the capability to match them lead for lead in a fire assault.
 

SGOperative

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How are they fairly well equipped ?Its a horror show watching these shitty old semi bent kalashnikovs.Even if they have scoped i doubt how effective the gun barrels still are at maintaining accuracy.This is where we need AK-203s fast.With reflex scopes and snipers embedded.
His tweet was in consideration with past what we used to see, Remove the gun and they are decent nothing to fancy but get the job done.
 

Kuldeepm952

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Spadex

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samsaptaka

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Theoretically they are issued a Sterling “Carbine” right?
Haha clutching at straws are we ? The fact that they are allegedly being issued that ww2 junk 'carbine' when better stuff like JVPC is available is in itself a huge travesty. I have given up hope on our top gernails ever taking modernization and standardisation seriously !
There are strong indicators that they do not provide your average Carl guy with AR.
Not providing gun to Carl guy is fine, are you serious?? :facepalm::hail: And if you believe that they indeed are provided, please prove that.

First of all, modernization includes streaming down almost everything from small arms types to ammo and sights. 3 types of assault rifles planned including carbine, almost every type of small arm ammo in service currently apart from chinese 5.8mm and Russia 5.45mm.,No standardised basic optics , EOTech, Falke, BEL all are welcome like a mela. A host of different types of helmets and bpjs in service, still no standardised plate carrier which would then just need HAP/SAP plates which can be sourced from different manufacturers instead of going with this whole new bpj selecting process everytime a new protection requirement arise.

Now, modernisation has also some laid out goals to fulfil some requirements. Long range engagement of sig requires scope, are they provided as of now? NO. AKs were bought coz they were cheaper, are they that cheaper? NO. Though that's not what i am concerned about.
Modernization also emphasize that you get ability to do tasks more effectively than previously, so are sights provided? No. Where is the plan to upgrade communications of infantry, SDR, hello where is that?

Listen I am very serious here as to how do you exactly think what we are doing currently is proper modernisation and are you okay with this 'chalta hai ji' attitude. To me this is not even half assed attempt but a quarter assed attempt. And how do you justify that this isn't the same problem we are creating as we are facing now currently. Doing the same mistakes again 🤠.
JUST WHAT KIND OF MODERNIZATION DO YOU ACTUALLY SEE, PLEASE JUSTIFY. Also, emergency purchases hardly count as mass level modernization but just token purchases coz the level of IA procurement is that f**ked up.
Sad sad sad. At this point I don't think left to themselves IA will ever reform or modernize either their tactics, weapons or training. Unless shoved down their throats by some third party reform agency or audit to rationalize the zoo of weapons, ammo, equipment, training, uniforms....
 

SGOperative

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I2 or TI sight are not designed to compensate optics. They are made to work with magnifier/ reflex/ scopes as an combo. Using I2 as your primary sight is hilarious to say the least
There was a magnification one as well (but this one was for Negevs?), the BEL HWS seems to be standard for the Sigs for now atleast on the front line units along with EO Tech sometimes?. Man i am confused now
 

Spadex

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There was a magnification one as well (but this one was for Negevs?), the BEL HWS seems to be standard for the Sigs for now atleast on the front line units along with EO Tech sometimes?. Man i am confused now
Bel holo are rated for 7.62*51 ?
 

Arjun Mk1A

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Does JVPC passed army trials?
Because in its wiki page it is mentioned it clears all the trials completed from 2016 to 2021.:frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty:

Does is clear it or not. Since we lost the Caracal 816 deal.
 

SGOperative

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Does JVPC passed army trials?
Because in its wiki page it is mentioned it clears all the trials completed from 2016 to 2021.:frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty:

Does is clear it or not. Since we lost the Caracal 816 deal.
AFAIK it did but the Army requirement is in 5.56 NATO instead of MINSAS round
 

Arjun Mk1A

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AFAIK it did but the Army requirement is in 5.56 NATO instead of MINSAS round
We invested in MINSAS rounds for decades and now we are back to square one demanding NATO rounds.

Does is it possible to re work the JVPC to fire NATO round? Since I don't think we will get any carbine soon. a
 

SGOperative

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We invested in MINSAS rounds for decades and now we are back to square one demanding NATO rounds.

Does is it possible to re work the JVPC to fire NATO round? Since I don't think we will get any carbine soon. a
Ask this on the Small Arms Thread about Changing the rounds :confused1: if i have to say i think its possible but will be very complex also wasnt the MINSAS ARDE's Initiative?
 

Kuldeepm952

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Haha clutching at straws are we ? The fact that they are allegedly being issued that ww2 junk 'carbine' when better stuff like JVPC is available is in itself a huge travesty. I have given up hope on our top gernails ever taking modernization and standardisation seriously !

Sad sad sad. At this point I don't think left to themselves IA will ever reform or modernize either their tactics, weapons or training. Unless shoved down their throats by some third party reform agency or audit to rationalize the zoo of weapons, ammo, equipment, training, uniforms....
Only God can improve the pathetic state of IA infantry modernisation, more like zoo emergency purchases. Only gun artillery arm seems to have a bright future, i wouldn't bet on any other arm.
But seriously, respective persons in IA should be made accountable to the state for the repeated dozens failure of procurement and should be made criminal offence of this decades of inaction in this front.
Just see the state of Russian infantry before and after, their modernization for the budget similiarly to ours largely bore some fruits and in our case we are at the same level as in 2010, the basic infantry that is, still strap based magzines pockets and guns seems to be issued largely along with some basic equipments like binos(old design as hell) and compass. Just look at the infantry coming out of chinook in pic ezasha posted, that is the situation of majority of infantry guys. So much for modernisation i guess.
Atleast IAF and NAVY seems to be going in the right direction and upgrading wherever possible in constraints of budget. On the other hand IA is cool with WW2 looking Guys on our side, DON'T they know WW2 like casualties won't be a good result in this modern war period, It would be interesting to know how IA would perform against a capable adversary like PLA.
Say anything but the equipment of PLA is atleast in very capable class.
 

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