Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[Kuldeepm952]

Betting on PLA than IA , wo to na hopayega sir. Mujhse

Dekhiye Dil toh yhi par h but doosri team itni teji se aage badh rahi h ki kya bole samajh hi nhi aata. Chahate to hum bhi thi h ki hamari army kam se kam ache equipment level par toh aaye. Manpower and morale m doubt nhi h IA ki but chinese modernization hi itna tagda h ki doubt hota h war outcome par.

 

[Love Charger]

Dekhiye Dil toh yhi par h but doosri team itni teji se aage badh rahi h ki kya bole samajh hi nhi aata. Chahate to hum bhi thi h ki hamari army kam se kam ache equipment level par toh aaye. Manpower and morale m doubt nhi h IA ki but chinese modernization hi itna tagda h ki doubt hota h war outcome par.

Chinta mat kariye, dusri taraf bakriyan hain .
Is taraf sher hain.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Indian Army Sniper with a suppressed Beretta-Victrix Scorpio TGT precision rifle chambered in .338LM.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

For those who don't know, the Carl Gustav guy in our IA squad both in infantry as well mech infantry is still not issued a rifle akin to Soviets in cold war time period. No rifle is provided to him, none, this is the standard squad setup in IA. Now, please don't quote what you see in Kasmir, COIN ops and their equipment is vastly diff. than rest of IA infantry structure. And it's the conventional infantry battalions that will go to war.
I hope they come to 21st century common sense and atleast provide the chap to have a rifle, even insas will do at this point.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

For those who don't know, the Carl Gustav guy in our IA squad both in infantry as well mech infantry is still not issued a rifle akin to Soviets in cold war time period. No rifle is provided to him, none, this is the standard squad setup in IA. Now, please don't quote what you see in Kasmir, COIN ops and their equipment is vastly diff. than rest of IA infantry structure. And it's the conventional infantry battalions that will go to war.
I hope they come to 21st century common sense and atleast provide the chap to have a rifle, even insas will do at this point.

Theoretically they are issued a Sterling “Carbine” right?

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Chinta mat kariye, dusri taraf bakriyan hain .
Is taraf sher hain.

Sher m doubt nhi h but Sher deserves atleast competent equipments and on this equipment side I doubt.
Chaliye 2030 tak toh hopium le hi sakte h, uske baad bhi situation aisi hi Rahi toh phir bas copium hi Lena padega.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Theoretically they are issued a Sterling “Carbine” right?

Theoretically, yes but from what I have seen in most info available in open media points toward without any gun at all though I am not sure about handgun but unlikely. I believe sterling supply has been stopped to IA from a long time and maybe that's why. But even the 90s media and kargil war media suggests that there was no gun standard to Carl Gustav guy, so i have a strong reason to believe that what we are following is somewhat similiar to soviet basic infantry squad structure.
If you can find some pics with Carl guy having any gun that would be great to see, though rare.

 

[India Super Power]

For those who don't know, the Carl Gustav guy in our IA squad both in infantry as well mech infantry is still not issued a rifle akin to Soviets in cold war time period. No rifle is provided to him, none, this is the standard squad setup in IA. Now, please don't quote what you see in Kasmir, COIN ops and their equipment is vastly diff. than rest of IA infantry structure. And it's the conventional infantry battalions that will go to war.
I hope they come to 21st century common sense and atleast provide the chap to have a rifle, even insas will do at this point.

So u mean to say modernization of methodology is now much important than modernization of equipments
My question is where can we find the current knowledge about their training tactics and methodology as they seem very reluctant to share in sm compared to other forces

 

[Love Charger]

So u mean to say modernization of methodology is now much important than modernization of equipments
My question is where can we find the current knowledge about their training tactics and methodology as they seem very reluctant to share in sm compared to other forces

Join the ima brother , aapko detail me knowledge milega

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Why else would you call so-called professionals that are going back to 1947 era designs whilst the rest of the world is taking a clean sheet approach

Just look at the US’s NGSW that rheu selected this week, 6.8mm because of superior long range ballistics and a brand new generation of LPVO with integrated IR, ballistics computer and environmental sensors.

Meanwhile IA wants downgraded AK-203s with iron sights and cancelled their 716 follow on deal

in the near future eve their infantry will be outgunned by their adversaries, then what? More emergency procurements to pad their bank accounts or get their families residency abroad?


Clowns


@Gessler

View attachment 152076

US also went full on M14, were they right?

If it fits our needs (and it does), then whats the issue? And you seem to have poor understanding of ranges of 5.56x45 vs 7.62x39 as well as armour penetration.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Just couple of questions, according to you upto what range are iron sights effective generally? And what is the effective range of the 7.62x39mm round?

With good sights, max is around 600 m. Generally, 400-500 m for the notch style sights, depending on user. Usually, AK effective range 300-400 m. If shooter is good, can eke out to 500 m.

 

[Love Charger]

With good sights, max is around 600 m. Generally, 400-500 m for the notch style sights, depending on user. Usually, AK effective range 300-400 m. If shooter is good, can eke out to 500 m.

Sirji , 500 bura nai hai .
I mean half kilometers ki range is good.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Sirji , 500 bura nai hai .
I mean half kilometers ki range is good.

500 m is unreasonable to expect from avg infantryman without optic, just saying. But engagements happen almost exclusively in 200-300m range, so no issues.

 

[Marliii]

US also went full on M14, were they right?

If it fits our needs (and it does), then whats the issue? And you seem to have poor understanding of ranges of 5.56x45 vs 7.62x39 as well as armour penetration.

Good luck hitting anything from 200meter with 7.62x39

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Good luck hitting anything from 200meter with 7.62x39

You seriously think AK accuracy is that bad? Lol.

The trope of AK being inaccurate came from people using darra made guns, where "rifling" is considered an unnecessary waste of time.

Have a look.

 

[Marliii]

You seriously think AK accuracy is that bad? Lol.

The trope of AK being inaccurate came from people using darra made guns, where "rifling" is considered an unnecessary waste of time.

Have a look.

This is a controlled test with match grade ammo with a spotter who can tell shooter how to adjust the wind and the other adjustments this is taking a best case scenario .the whole trope of ak being inaccurate is dumb but that doesnt mean its "accurate ".you should see the performance of a 10.5 inch AR15 on this same channel .something that is for CQBR only almost reached 500 yard if I remember

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

This is a controlled test with match grade ammo with a spotter who can tell shooter how to adjust the wind and the other adjustments this is taking a best case scenario .the whole trope of ak being inaccurate is dumb but that doesnt mean its "accurate ".you should see the performance of a 10.5 inch AR15 on this same channel .something that is for CQBR only almost reached 500 yard if I remember

1) Not match grade ammo, regular russian steel ammo. Barnaul 762 FMJ, is not match grade.
2) All guns that pass this test reach 500 yards, thats the entire test.
3) That AR had a scope - AK with scope does a lot better.
4) Spotter helps, but is not decisive until beyond 400m. Shots were close enough prior to that.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

So u mean to say modernization of methodology is now much important than modernization of equipments
My question is where can we find the current knowledge about their training tactics and methodology as they seem very reluctant to share in sm compared to other forces

There are strong indicators that they do not provide your average Carl guy with AR.
Not providing gun to Carl guy is fine, are you serious?? And if you believe that they indeed are provided, please prove that.

First of all, modernization includes streaming down almost everything from small arms types to ammo and sights. 3 types of assault rifles planned including carbine, almost every type of small arm ammo in service currently apart from chinese 5.8mm and Russia 5.45mm.,No standardised basic optics , EOTech, Falke, BEL all are welcome like a mela. A host of different types of helmets and bpjs in service, still no standardised plate carrier which would then just need HAP/SAP plates which can be sourced from different manufacturers instead of going with this whole new bpj selecting process everytime a new protection requirement arise.

Now, modernisation has also some laid out goals to fulfil some requirements. Long range engagement of sig requires scope, are they provided as of now? NO. AKs were bought coz they were cheaper, are they that cheaper? NO. Though that's not what i am concerned about.
Modernization also emphasize that you get ability to do tasks more effectively than previously, so are sights provided? No. Where is the plan to upgrade communications of infantry, SDR, hello where is that?

Listen I am very serious here as to how do you exactly think what we are doing currently is proper modernisation and are you okay with this 'chalta hai ji' attitude. To me this is not even half assed attempt but a quarter assed attempt. And how do you justify that this isn't the same problem we are creating as we are facing now currently. Doing the same mistakes again .
JUST WHAT KIND OF MODERNIZATION DO YOU ACTUALLY SEE, PLEASE JUSTIFY. Also, emergency purchases hardly count as mass level modernization but just token purchases coz the level of IA procurement is that f**ked up.

 

[India Super Power]

There are strong indicators that they do not provide your average Carl guy with AR.
Not providing gun to Carl guy is fine, are you serious?? And if you believe that they indeed are provided, please prove that.

First of all, modernization includes streaming down almost everything from small arms types to ammo and sights. 3 types of assault rifles planned including carbine, almost every type of small arm ammo in service currently apart from chinese 5.8mm and Russia 5.45mm.,No standardised basic optics , EOTech, Falke, BEL all are welcome like a mela. A host of different types of helmets and bpjs in service, still no standardised plate carrier which would then just need HAP/SAP plates which can be sourced from different manufacturers instead of going with this whole new bpj selecting process everytime a new protection requirement arise.

Now, modernisation has also some laid out goals to fulfil some requirements. Long range engagement of sig requires scope, are they provided as of now? NO. AKs were bought coz they were cheaper, are they that cheaper? NO. Though that's not what i am concerned about.
Modernization also emphasize that you get ability to do tasks more effectively than previously, so are sights provided? No. Where is the plan to upgrade communications of infantry, SDR, hello where is that?

Listen I am very serious here as to how do you exactly think what we are doing currently is proper modernisation and are you okay with this 'chalta hai ji' attitude. To me this is not even half assed attempt but a quarter assed attempt. And how do you justify that this isn't the same problem we are creating as we are facing now currently. Doing the same mistakes again .
JUST WHAT KIND OF MODERNIZATION DO YOU ACTUALLY SEE, PLEASE JUSTIFY. Also, emergency purchases hardly count as mass level modernization but just token purchases coz the level of IA procurement is that f**ked up.

Our armed forces loves khichdi
They never got sense of standardization or even providing modern equipments
Air Force communication capability increased after they performed bad in balakot
Wait for army to face the same then also few minute changes will be done
I don't understand why our forces don't learn from other's situation or wars
They wait for themselves to face and even after that they do just few changes
Truly chalata hai attitude
I don't understand many people in other places blame govt if we lose some conflict or war but main culprit is our armed forces top brass due to which our low level officers and jawans suffer
Many countries doesn't have the disadvantage that we have i.e baboz in armed forces and bureaucracy
A country with so much of resource is under equipping it armed forces and a.ways ignoring indigenous weapons
Sorry if someone gets angry

 

[ezsasa]

While most of our attention is on gear in J&K, not much progress in regular infantry.
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Indian Army's #PINEWARRIORS and IAF conducted a joint tactical exercise on #SpecialHeliborneOperations with Chinook on 20th April in Chandigarh.