Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

Kuldeepm952

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Please tag/quote people who have good knowledge regarding any of the point following below to share their thoghts so we can get a good series of opinions for clarity-

I totally agree with you guys though there are some differences I would like to present-

1) Our air force is at it's worst in decades and will continue to be so in near future. All fighter planes leave Sukhoi and Tejas will retire near 2030. Medium and heavy transport fleet will suffer with c17 line closed and il214 programme departure. Tankers strength are already a problem here. Current AWACS number are pathetic, heck even less than Pak. Proper EW systems which should have been standard on each aircraft are questionable, most of them don't have it. Only heli strength seems good though lack of self protection suite will limit their utility in tactical battle area. Our mainstay Su 30s are increasingly becoming near obsolete in the absence of proper EW system, weapon systems and others. I'll bet on Tejas mk1a anyday over current su 30mki.

Now, present AF is increasingly becoming of the view that they would like to have foreign MWF and then jump to AMCA. Here goes of our hope of Tejas mk2. At this point they are not even hiding that they are even serious about 42 squadrons which by the way needs to be revised in context of leapfrogging china to be a number easily above 50 squadrons.
Only way I see out of this hell situation is quadrupling your effort on indigenous products, then maybe we will be in a good position post 2035 or 2040. I see a strong case for low observable Tejas mk3 or atleast Orca if we are serious of even thinking about tackling two front war.

Coming to your thoughts of using air Power when their is PLAAF can be debated in the above ongoing and upcoming scenario.


2.) Coming to Indian Navy, qualitatively and quantitatively we are I would say(you may not agree) much inferior to even South Korean navy, leave alone other major powers. It won't be a hyberbole to say that we got the worst navy(number wise and equiemt wise) among major competitive naval powers. Maybe we can learn something from ROK navy.

Here are some inferences:-
a). Navy's habit of inducting vessel of same type in limited numbers has seriously f**ked up economies of scale and the time of signing of contract to induction after so many years hasn't really improved and pathetic at best compared to naval power like japanes navy and ROK navy, forget about china.
b.) Not aligning with USA in the previous century, has come around biting when other navies are getting their hands on juicy AGEIS and now are making their own analogues, see ROK navy. Other example is our special forces which didn't benefit from USA special forces unlike other allied countries. On equipment front our SOF are rag tags at best.
Need of the hour is for a mission mode project form DRDO like IGDMP for sensors, vls, weapons systems for enhanced modularity and different threat handling capability.
c.) A fact that each vessel made outruns it's cost and is generally delieverd late by a huge time gap in IN is a sad state of affair.
d.) Future procurement plan also present a bleak future with some 5 NGD and 6-7 NGF which won't be present before 2030 at best. Submarine fleet is in shambles and running on worn out vessels.
e.) Biggest of all disappointment of mine is that neither IAF neither IN doesn't seems to see itself as a major force as evident from it's future procurement plan atleast in the near future circa 2040.


3.) Coming to IA, here is what I see:-

a.) Infantry is seriously outdated equipment and tactics wise, it's like we are still stuck in 90's, there is some change but a token amount at best. Standardization of equipment has among troops is something which gives every DFI member nightmares 😰. Even army has given up on it and here we see
b.) Less is said about SOF, apparently turf war among army and para unable to let go para sf will probably continue to make PARA SF unused to it's full potential. For now it's best to say PARA SF as super infantry, SOF quite doesn't suit them presently.
c.) Underutilization of rocket artillery by not inducting them enmass probably due to gunner ethics of artillery arm being a roadblock, you know how old guys just doesn't seem to appreciate new things. Now ROK army has 6 times the number of 155mm tubes and here army can't even commit to ATAGS.
d.) Army Air core is just a baby at now, devoid of proper recon, attack, and tactical troop transport heli (mi 17 class). At this point unable to provide support fire, recon and Air assault operations is a dream.
e.) On Armour front, unpgraded t-72 and bmp tin-cans will make sure of our pathetic situtaion remains as it is for a long time. Even upgradation of T-90 is on God's hands.
f.) IA airdefense still seems in its old colors in the sense that it really hasn't moved towards wide area air defense(remember AKASH NG and XRSAM are IAF led projects) and battlefield ballistic missile defense like S300V system of Russian army which is highly puzzling when you enemy has tactical nukes like NASR on western front and on eastern fornt has the capability to strike your critical nodes from beyond horizon strikes.
g.) Army's love for foreign product is unhidden. They have the near term capability to induct sizeable number of indigenous products owing to systems being less complex and less risky compared to its other services counterpart, yet it's intent for indigenous products on projects like artillery, FMBT, ficv, basic rifles, atgms, vshorads to name the least.

4.) Coming to our ability of beyond horizon strikes through cruise missiles, tactical ballistic missiles is non existent at best leave aside some brahmos.
 

Kuldeepm952

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Even a layman like me can see through countless holes in defense. Adding injury to that is our forces doesn't really give confidence enough and the procurement process is like a bad dream seemingly never ending. These holes are just itching to be exploited by our enemies and we are giving them free pass.
I believe in seeing, analysing the situation and then come up with conclusions.
STANDING up to the GIANT PAIN IN THE ASS PLA demands something for which our nation will have to literally go through flames of hard decisions.

Well for Indian Ocean and Indian Subcontinent to remain not only Indian in name will require some serious work, hardships and sacrifices, name what you say of it.

Some hopium would be God send :frown:
1635434642468.png

Unless it becomes like this-
1635434679712.png
 
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Aditya Ballal

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Please tag/quote people who have good knowledge regarding any of the point following below to share their thoghts so we can get a good series of opinions for clarity-

I totally agree with you guys though there are some differences I would like to present-

1) Our air force is at it's worst in decades and will continue to be so in near future. All fighter planes leave Sukhoi and Tejas will retire near 2030. Medium and heavy transport fleet will suffer with c17 line closed and il214 programme departure. Tankers strength are already a problem here. Current AWACS number are pathetic, heck even less than Pak. Proper EW systems which should have been standard on each aircraft are questionable, most of them don't have it. Only heli strength seems good though lack of self protection suite will limit their utility in tactical battle area. Our mainstay Su 30s are increasingly becoming near obsolete in the absence of proper EW system, weapon systems and others. I'll bet on Tejas mk1a anyday over current su 30mki.

Now, present AF is increasingly becoming of the view that they would like to have foreign MWF and then jump to AMCA. Here goes of our hope of Tejas mk2. At this point they are not even hiding that they are even serious about 42 squadrons which by the way needs to be revised in context of leapfrogging china to be a number easily above 50 squadrons.
Only way I see out of this hell situation is quadrupling your effort on indigenous products, then maybe we will be in a good position post 2035 or 2040. I see a strong case for low observable Tejas mk3 or atleast Orca if we are serious of even thinking about tackling two front war.

Coming to your thoughts of using air Power when their is PLAAF can be debated in the above ongoing and upcoming scenario.


2.) Coming to Indian Navy, qualitatively and quantitatively we are I would say(you may not agree) much inferior to even South Korean navy, leave alone other major powers. It won't be a hyberbole to say that we got the worst navy(number wise and equiemt wise) among major competitive naval powers. Maybe we can learn something from ROK navy.

Here are some inferences:-
a). Navy's habit of inducting vessel of same type in limited numbers has seriously f**ked up economies of scale and the time of signing of contract to induction after so many years hasn't really improved and pathetic at best compared to naval power like japanes navy and ROK navy, forget about china.
b.) Not aligning with USA in the previous century, has come around biting when other navies are getting their hands on juicy AGEIS and now are making their own analogues, see ROK navy. Other example is our special forces which didn't benefit from USA special forces unlike other allied countries. On equipment front our SOF are rag tags at best.
Need of the hour is for a mission mode project form DRDO like IGDMP for sensors, vls, weapons systems for enhanced modularity and different threat handling capability.
c.) A fact that each vessel made outruns it's cost and is generally delieverd late by a huge time gap in IN is a sad state of affair.
d.) Future procurement plan also present a bleak future with some 5 NGD and 6-7 NGF which won't be present before 2030 at best. Submarine fleet is in shambles and running on worn out vessels.
e.) Biggest of all disappointment of mine is that neither IAF neither IN doesn't seems to see itself as a major force as evident from it's future procurement plan atleast in the near future circa 2040.


3.) Coming to IA, here is what I see:-

a.) Infantry is seriously outdated equipment and tactics wise, it's like we are still stuck in 90's, there is some change but a token amount at best. Standardization of equipment has among troops is something which gives every DFI member nightmares 😰. Even army has given up on it and here we see
b.) Less is said about SOF, apparently turf war among army and para unable to let go para sf will probably continue to make PARA SF unused to it's full potential. For now it's best to say PARA SF as super infantry, SOF quite doesn't suit them presently.
c.) Underutilization of rocket artillery by not inducting them enmass probably due to gunner ethics of artillery arm being a roadblock, you know how old guys just doesn't seem to appreciate new things. Now ROK army has 6 times the number of 155mm tubes and here army can't even commit to ATAGS.
d.) Army Air core is just a baby at now, devoid of proper recon, attack, and tactical troop transport heli (mi 17 class). At this point unable to provide support fire, recon and Air assault operations is a dream.
e.) On Armour front, unpgraded t-72 and bmp tin-cans will make sure of our pathetic situtaion remains as it is for a long time. Even upgradation of T-90 is on God's hands.
f.) IA airdefense still seems in its old colors in the sense that it really hasn't moved towards wide area air defense(remember AKASH NG and XRSAM are IAF led projects) and battlefield ballistic missile defense like S300V system of Russian army which is highly puzzling when you enemy has tactical nukes like NASR on western front and on eastern fornt has the capability to strike your critical nodes from beyond horizon strikes.
g.) Army's love for foreign product is unhidden. They have the near term capability to induct sizeable number of indigenous products owing to systems being less complex and less risky compared to its other services counterpart, yet it's intent for indigenous products on projects like artillery, FMBT, ficv, basic rifles, atgms, vshorads to name the least.

4.) Coming to our ability of beyond horizon strikes through cruise missiles, tactical ballistic missiles is non existent at best leave aside some brahmos.
Post points 1 and 2 in the respective forces to get a better answer to your question as it’s not the purview of this thread and people with better knowledge can answer your question.
 

Tshering22

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Saw this a few months back ...interesting outcome.

So basically, the soldier wearing the armour still gets crushed ribs and spine from the force of the bullet. Well.... that's a real bummer but something expect. .50 cals are supposed to rip through even armoured VIP vehicles (unless it is the Rhino Runner). Let alone individual.
 

Tshering22

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Guys, any idea why are our soldiers in Arunachal wearing these biking helmets?

They definitely don't look like military helmets.

Screen Shot 2021-10-31 at 14.18.47.png


Got it from this show, a Print coverage online:

 

Automatic Kalashnikov

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Guys, any idea why are our soldiers in Arunachal wearing these biking helmets?

They definitely don't look like military helmets.

View attachment 116931

Got it from this show, a Print coverage online:

Trekking helmets used while practice ig. Seen with soldiers in Siachen as well, mostly during pre-deployment training.
 

Hari Sud

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Curious to know that who supplies the clothing material for this new uniform.

Previously, it has been reported that cloth material for military uniform was imported from China. I hope this time it is locally made.
 

Kuldeepm952

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I am interested in knowing if the combat dress will be made by ofb aka troops comfort India limited or through competitive bidding. Hope they set quality standards right for a combat dress.
Do you think there will be radical changes like kneepad integrated lower and upper dress, maybe it's just a camo change at best with patch placement changes perhaps.
Also I don't think we will be going with terrain specific camo? We are already way behind in our infantry modernisation plan, yet we still make small changes and the cycle of lagging behind others continue.
 

Kuldeepm952

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Though I hope this time we get proper standardisation this time and don't see different types of camos among the soldiers.
Also hope to see standardised helmets with camo,load carriers, bullet proof jackets, and other equipments too. Right now it is like every command of army buying it's own different gear with funds allocated to them with no standardization.

German Army of WW2 had better Camo standards with terrain specifications than what the Indian ground forces have as of now.
Change my mind.
 
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