MMRCA News and Discussions - Part II

Agantrope

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But how can you justify French potential sale to pakistan/china

Especially - when France has taken all effort and dying to lift arms embargo and sell to china+pak
My good friend it not the french mulling the lift of ban, but spain. If french trying to do anything like that it might have to pay a hefty price for that and burn their hands in Chinese reverse engineering
 

mayfair

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An issue with Eurofighter has been the consortium ownership and potential difficulties with spares as we are now seeing with the BAe HAWK. Apparently, Eurofigther Tranche2 is not yet ready, while Rafale is ready for off the shelf purchase and offer continuity to the IAF and French have usually been reliable suppliers and reasonable negotiators, though their posturing on the Mirage 2000 upgrade did sour things between us.

May the best aircraft win, though considering the politics that goes behind the scene, that would be to much to wish for.
 

tarunraju

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One thing for sure is that India is not picking its fighters purely based on merit. It doesn't take an MMRCA competition to tell which is the 'best fighter' among these (SuperHornet), but pure political and strategic posturing. We want our fighters delivered ASAP (which MiG 35 is worst at), want something suitable for operation in all parts of the country (Gripen, Rafale, Typhoon, SuperViper aren't good at), which have reliable suppliers (given America's position, it can cut supplies in event of a subcontinent war, so SuperHornet and SuperViper fail), have established technologies (Gripen NG is still a paper-plane), and maintainability. Apart from that, India wants to make 'new friends' with MMRCA in the backdrops.
 

sunnyv

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My good friend it not the french mulling the lift of ban, but spain. If french trying to do anything like that it might have to pay a hefty price for that and burn their hands in Chinese reverse engineering
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...&headline=French JF-17 Deal Could Anger India

what abt this- Even a 5 yr old child can tell where this tech will land finallly - In hands of copy-cats.

Our country has to keep paying french to keep them away from offering these toys??????????
And abt France-Do they even know implication of offering such destructive and sophisticated tech to a peacefull country like Pakistan. Where will it be used to combat - a super duper airforce of Al-qaida/taliban????????

How can you justify this-
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a3Aqi.gEpHmk&refer=redirectoldpage
The U.S. is fighting a French-led drive to repeal the European export curbs, imposed after the 1989 Tiananmen Square crackdown against pro-democracy demonstrators. The main American allies in Europe on the issue are the U.K. and Scandinavian countries, which can block a policy change because it needs unanimity in the EU.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-09/07/content_683196.htm

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/54-329.aspx

Spain will acheive what??????/ - Moreover its a news to me Spain proposing to lift ban
Its FRENCH only FRENCH - who are dying to sell to CHINA+PAK
 
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gogbot

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One thing for sure is that India is not picking its fighters purely based on merit. It doesn't take an MMRCA competition to tell which is the 'best fighter' among these (SuperHornet), but pure political and strategic posturing. We want our fighters delivered ASAP (which MiG 35 is worst at), want something suitable for operation in all parts of the country (Gripen, Rafale, Typhoon, SuperViper aren't good at), which have reliable suppliers (given America's position, it can cut supplies in event of a subcontinent war, so SuperHornet and SuperViper fail), have established technologies (Gripen NG is still a paper-plane), and maintainability. Apart from that, India wants to make 'new friends' with MMRCA in the backdrops.
I agree with you on most points.

But since we already Operate the Dassult Mirage.

I think we can very easily and effectively use the Rafael which is supposed to be the evolution of the Mirage.
So we can assume it will surpass all the capabilities of our Mirage.

On top of that we can adapt our logistics and training to the Rafael Easier then anyone else.

Also Rafael along with the Super hornet are the only two fighters that offer a Carrier variant as well.

So the Naval MMRCA deal can also benefit from this purchase. Possibly lowering the overall price of each aircraft.

Personally I like the typhoon, But i would be very surprised with Anything other than the Super Hornet or Rafael are choosen
 

gogbot

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http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...&headline=French JF-17 Deal Could Anger India

what abt this- Even a 5 yr old child can tell where this tech will land finallly - In hands of copy-cats.

Our country has to keep paying french to keep them away from offering these toys??????????
And abt France-Do they even know implication of offering such destructive and sophisticated tech to a peacefull country like Pakistan. Where will it be used to combat - a super duper airforce of Al-qaida/taliban????????

How can you justify this-
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a3Aqi.gEpHmk&refer=redirectoldpage


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-09/07/content_683196.htm

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/54-329.aspx

Spain will acheive what??????/ - Moreover its a news to me Spain proposing to lift ban
Its FRENCH only FRENCH - who are dying to sell to CHINA+PAK
France cant push through anything with out support from Germany.

If the Germans do decide to provide support.

Then we will seriously have to reconsider our position.

It will significantly weaken our position in the world.
 

slenke

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http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...&headline=French JF-17 Deal Could Anger India

what abt this- Even a 5 yr old child can tell where this tech will land finallly - In hands of copy-cats.

Our country has to keep paying french to keep them away from offering these toys??????????
And abt France-Do they even know implication of offering such destructive and sophisticated tech to a peacefull country like Pakistan. Where will it be used to combat - a super duper airforce of Al-qaida/taliban????????

How can you justify this-
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a3Aqi.gEpHmk&refer=redirectoldpage


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-09/07/content_683196.htm

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/54-329.aspx

Spain will acheive what??????/ - Moreover its a news to me Spain proposing to lift ban
Its FRENCH only FRENCH - who are dying to sell to CHINA+PAK
The Brits have a saying, "never trust the french".. =)
 
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U.S. Grounds 104 Hornets After More Cracks Discovered


By philip ewing
Published: 12 Mar 2010 15:12



U.S. Naval Air Systems Command grounded 104 U.S. Navy and Marine Corps F/A-18 Hornet fighter jets March 12 after inspectors discovered the airframes were developing cracks much earlier than engineers had thought.

A U.S. Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet prepares to land on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier Carl Vinson during a flight demonstration March 10, while Vinson was underway off the coast of Argentina. (MC2 ADRIAN WHITE / U.S. NAVY)



The grounding order affects the first four varieties of Hornet - models A through D - and does not apply to aircraft now flying combat missions over Iraq or Afghanistan. The number of Hornets affected makes up 16 percent of the Navy-Marine A through D fleet.

There have been no crashes or other mishaps related to the problem, said Navy spokesman Lt. Nate Christensen. The March 10 crash of a Marine F/A-18D Hornet from Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 224 off South Carolina - in which both the pilot and weapons officer were rescued - was not related to this problem, he said. Of the 104 grounded jets, 77 are in flight status. Of those, 23 are in Navy and Marine Corps fleet squadrons; five are forward-deployed at Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni, Japan; five belong to the Blue Angels flight demonstration team; and 44 are in fleet replacement squadrons. The other 27 Hornets are in a maintenance status.

The grounding notice from NavAir covered a "high stress focus area" that engineers already knew about as part of the
Hornets' service-life assessment program, Christensen said, so NavAir issued a set of instructions for affected aircraft.
Squadrons have been ordered to perform a magnetic field inspection on jets included in the grounding. If they don't find cracks, their Hornets go back to unrestricted flight status, although crews are required to visually inspect the wings after every 100 hours of flight.

If a squadron can't do the magnetic inspection on a jet included in the grounding, its crews have been ordered to inspect its wings visually. Even if they find no cracks, the Hornet pilots will not be allowed to pull more than four Gs during flight.
Christensen said he did not have a breakdown for each type of Hornet - A, B, C and D - affected by the grounding. He also did not describe where the cracks were forming on each jet - for example, in their center barrels, wings, or elsewhere. There are a total of 635 A- through D-model jets in the Navy and Marine Corps fleet.
 
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initially reported


http://www.flightglobal.com/article...ack-problem-but-long-term-future-remains.html

F/A-18 survives hinge crack problem, but long-term future remains uncertain
By Stephen Trimble

Few US Navy and Marine Corps fighters will be grounded because of a new structural fatigue issue discovered in October, but the long-term impact on the Boeing F/A-18A-D fleet's future is still being assessed.

After inspecting for aileron hinge cracks on 476 out of 480 F/A-18A-Ds,the USN grounded 10 aircraft and imposed flight restrictions on 20 more. The groundings affected only two deployed aircraft - one each from the USN and USMC. "We're very encouraged by the results to date and project minimal operational disruption," the navy says.

The hinge cracks posed a huge safety concern after being detected last month. Losing an aileron panel in flight could lead to losing control of the aircraft, navy officials warn.

Although the fleetwide inspection showed the problem was not severe, the issue could reverberate in ongoing discussions about the USN and USMC's desired mix of older F/A-18s, new F/A-18E/F Super Hornets and Lockheed Martin F-35C Joint Strike Fighters.
 
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p2prada

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Structural fatigue happens to all aircraft. It was reported in the Russian Mig-29 only last year. This is not a problem that is seen in newly built aircraft.
 
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P2prada you are right but these cracks appeared a lot earlier than calculated by Boeing engineers and they were extensive. In the past it was in the wings and they just replaced the wing now it seems to be in other parts of the plane.
 
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Armand2REP

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Structural fatigue happens to all aircraft. It was reported in the Russian Mig-29 only last year. This is not a problem that is seen in newly built aircraft.
Really, what about F-22s? The first 104 off the assembly line require a stuctural refit programme.
 

Sridhar

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It is Gripen D or NG

Gripen NG Demonstrator flight tests in progress


BY: GRIPEN PR

The flight test programme with Gripen NG Demonstrator continues according to plan at the Saab facilities in Linköping. The latest flight, number 117 since the flight test programme started, was flown today.
We are now testing all the tactical systems, such as the AESA radar and the new communications system. The test programme is very extensive, and the unusually harsh cold and snowy winter here in Sweden has challenged the programme schedule but we are now quickly catching up, says Mattias Bergström, the Gripen NG Demonstrator project manager.
We have finished, and successfully verified, the flight tests of the electro-optical Missile Approach Warning System (MAW) and the new fuel system with larger internal fuel tanks.
The Gripen NG is the next generation of the Gripen fighter, which is in service with the air forces of Sweden, the Czech Republic, Hungary and South Africa. It is also ordered by the Royal Thai Air Force and is flown by the Empire Test Pilots School, ETPS, in the UK.


http://idrw.org/?p=871#more-871
 
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Rahul Singh

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Sri, it is NG. A good look at the landing gears and that special tail mark is enough to confirm that it is NG. One thing is clear now Gripen is Indian is D because there is only one prototype of Demo available.
 

Sridhar

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MMRCA to be political decision: Eurofighter

BY : stratpost.com

With the almost year-long trials for the 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender of the Indian Air Force (IAF) expected to end by May, StratPost caught up with Dr. Matthias Schmidlin, the head of the Eurofighter Typhoon campaign in India, who said it was unlikely the trials would end with a single aircraft having a clear lead while recognizing the final result of the MMRCA contest would be a political decision.
“It is my belief that there will be definitely more than one vendor when there is the opening of the commercial envelope. I believe we are in a good position and so I anticipate that we will be going up to the end of this campaign,” he says, adding, “The final decision at the end of the day will be political. We all know that. This is, at the moment, the largest defense contract around the globe. And it will be the largest fighter, combat campaign for the next decade to come. So clearly, this is very strategic for all the vendors in the campaign.”
Acknowledging the contestants would have to satisfy the technical and commercial evaluations before getting to a point where they can be decided upon politically, saying, “Every vendor needs to go through the compliant bid up to that point.”
Schmidlin also thinks the Eurofighter has the advantage of the political inheritance it carries from Europe. “Once we are at this last and final stage: the political element, I’m convinced that the German government is fully committed behind this campaign,” he says.
He goes on to expand the list, saying, “Its also about Italy, Great Britain and Spain.” And notwithstanding the competition offered by the French Dassault’s Rafale in the MMRCA contest, Schmidlin also refers to the French ownership share of weapons supplier MBDA and EADS to submit, “At the end of the day we are certainly a French company to a certain extent as well. So one would get not just four, but five governments supporting this campaign.”
He asserts the advantages this political lineage provides in terms of the relative absence of conditions for sale of the aircraft that may be imposed on India. “It’s not enough to have the best kit in town if you have limitations to use it or if you have limitations for upgrading it. We are less bound than any or at least some of the contenders on end use monitoring and so forth, so what we’re offering is not only support for the self-reliance of the Indian aerospace and defense industry but also on the respective usage of the weapon kit at the end of the day,” says Schmidlin.
He also points out that the Eurofighter Typhoon has done well in various exercises with other contenders in the MMRCA contest, some of whom it has replaced in other air forces, saying, “It’s not a surprise because it was designed to replace a significant number of variants; some of them are in this campaign (MMRCA), (some) in the four nations, and some of the export customers are looking to do the same.”
Elaborating, Schimdlin says, “It replaces a lot of aircraft from different countries. F-18, Mirage, Tornado, MiG-29… Germany had MiG-29s. One Eurofighter is replacing all these Russian, American, French, British aircraft – it’s designed to replace a multitude of different aircraft from different manufacturers in different countries.” He also says there is an easy learning curve for moving to the Eurofighter Typhoon from other aircraft that are replaced. “There has been no big issue at all in moving from a competing aircraft even in this campaign (MMRCA) to the Typhoon in some nations or where we have exported the aircraft. Its really an aircraft that’s very easy to engage,” he says.
And while the Eurofighter Typhoon still has a final phase of trials in which to show this off to the IAF in trials next month in Europe, Schmidlin is not worried on that count. “The Eurofighter Typhoon is an aircraft which is highly agile, multi-role and swing-role. It’s designed to deliver high performance operation and is tailor-made to the Indian requirements, really, to operate in these conditions,” he says, adding, “It has been deployed to much tougher conditions. We won in Saudi Arabia, where there were very stringent trials conducted in hot and sandy conditions. In terms also of cold and hard conditions, we have sold the aircraft to Austria. Very difficult terrain out there with very narrow valleys, very short runways, which require massive performance at high altitudes.”
Offering transfer of technology, licensed manufacture and offsets, Schmidlin points out, “The Eurofighter is the youngest aircraft in this race, with loads of potential for future upgrades and enhancements and we’ve offered India to be part of this undertaking.”
The cost of such an undertaking, the MMRCA, could remain unclear for the near future. Curiously, while both the technical and commercial proposals were delivered by April 28, 2008, with the former being opened at 1500 hours that day, the commercial proposals were ‘locked away and sealed’ to be valid for ‘up to 24 months’, Schmidlin confirms.
And although it is clear that the evaluation is unlikely to be at a stage where the commercial bids are in a position to be opened by the expiry deadline on April 28 this year, Schmidlin finds himself at somewhat of a loss about their status after that date. “According to the DPP (Defense Procurement Procedure), there is a requirement for having valid commercial proposal, and so far – I have to be honest – I don’t know, we have not been officially approached in this regard.”
According to industry sources this eventuality has not been entirely unforeseen and there is a likelihood the vendors will be required to either resubmit their commercial bids or extend their validity. Trade speculation regards this as an opportunity for vendors to adjust their commercial proposals on the basis of their perception of performance in the user trials.


http://idrw.org/?p=886
 

Rahul Singh

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I seriously hope EF wins the contract. I hope so not for this drama to end but for ADA to come up at a decision to say "ok this is the engine". LCA had suffered enough because of Kaveri and i don't wish it suffer more because of this MRCA jigsaw puzzle. And, after all, if ADA is serious about TVC then EJ is the only option left, hopping they develop one as promised.
 

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